Topic: New Stewart Lee Book [split topic]

[Madison]

Ta for the heads-up. Here's just the Bacon/Stew bits (4 parts / 25 mins):

Stewart Lee - Radio 5 Live - Richard Bacon - 20100809

Thanks for this, was a pleasant listen as I made a cheesecake. You probably didn't need to know about my cheesecake but it was 1% more interesting than just putting 'thanks'.

[Gavin]

Thanks for this, was a pleasant listen as I made a cheesecake. You probably didn't need to know about my cheesecake but it was 1% more interesting than just putting 'thanks'.

I have cheesecake in the fridge, thanks for reminding me!

[HAYRDRYAH]

Mm, cheesecake with bacon and stew, lovely

_{wish I wasn't about to post this}

[lipsink]

I've finished the book and the Pestival performance transcript was fucking hilarious.

[Little Hoover]

You do know that it's available as an extra on the 41st best stand-up dvd?

[CaledonianGonzo]

The early version I saw of 41st Best Stand-Up contained the majority of the 'Peach potato aphid in the cave with Robert the Bruce' routine.  It was actually one of mt favourite parts of the show.

[Tiny Poster]

I might have to actually get the DVD then, such is the excellence of that routine. The Robert The Bruce stuff was on the radio series of FoF, but reworked enough to be surprising. Take note Herring.

[actwithoutwords]

Finished this today. Really excellent stuff. The non-transcript chapters are very entertaingly and engagingly written, and the footnotes to the transcripts are fantastically illuminating. It's a thoroughly fascinating insight into the methods of comedy. My only problem was that the footnoting in the 90's Comedian section started to pall slightly. Maybe it was because the ridiculousness of the whole concept of the book started to hit me (who in their right mind is actually interested in all the minutiae, other than our ilk?), or maybe the footnotes in that section took themselves a little too seriously, I'm not sure. Either way, that feeling soon dissipated. Cracking stuff. 41st Best in many ways is on a par with the other stuff, but just let down by a few weak sections.

One thing that did surprise me was his defence of Gervaisian irony. He doesn't address the idea that if you're constantly fixated on disabled or homo jokes, the cover of irony does start to slip a little.
Otherwise, his judgement on so much is impeccable. Excepting the Mighty Boosh/Josie Long stuff. Which I had managed to forget, and will now attempt to re-forget.

EDIT:
It's just a pity that Milder Comedian wasn't included, the success of which would have fitted nicely with the overall narrative.
Interesting also that he confirmed that the Conservative Party racism line had to be changed in the TV show for legal reasons.

[Chris Chopping]

Has Milder Comedian been a particular success then? Not that it shouldn't have been, I just haven't seen it or heard/read any press/reviews or word of mouth. I'm very much looking forward to the DVD and am intrigued to find out if it's another heavily structured show or if it's a looser collection of material than the last two.

Also, is it Milder Comedian that will be stripmined for the second TV series or is that the Vegetable Stew stuff he's touring now?

[Little Hoover]

The month long tour of it at Leicester Square theatre was selling out pretty much every night, the show was first being performed at last years Edinburgh and he stopped touring it months ago now, of course you won't have heard anything about it recently, it did get some press attention at time, partly because of the "controversy" over the richard hammond bit.

[vrailaine]

Also, is it Milder Comedian that will be stripmined for the second TV series or is that the Vegetable Stew stuff he's touring now?

Some bits of Milder Comedian appear to be, I presume the entirety of what he performed at Edinburgh as "Vegetable Stew" and I'm presuming he's going to be chucking in some fresh material near recording if his complaints of the first series are anything to go by.

I liked how he used Josie Long for one tour as a test to see if a crowd would be trouble.

[Mister Six]

One thing that did surprise me was his defence of Gervaisian irony.

That surprised me, too, but I'm putting that down to a friendship with Jimmy Carr and an appreciation of the help that Gervais afforded him both before and after he got famous.

Yes, I'm enough of a cunt to refuse to believe that Stewart Lee's opinions could not possibly diverge enough from my own that he would approve of ironic disability jokes, and am willing to fashion an explanation for that.

I am a bad man.

[An tSaoi]

One of my favourite parts of the book was when he wrote about comedy merchandise (such as Simon Munnery selling knickers featuring a picture of his face); then speculated on merchandise that would be relevant to particular acts and their audiences. He suggested Paddy McGuinness should sell his fans mitts with 'left' and 'right' printed on them.

It was funny in context of course.

[Gavin]

http://www.comedycentral.co.uk/podcasts

There's a podcast featuring Stewart Lee here which I've not seen a link to on CaB.

[Little Hoover]

Thanks for that, some interesting stuff even though it was hosted by Robin Ince and his 'young friend' Josie Long.

[Shameless]

So according to my Kindle book thing it says i'm 12% of the way through this, and I am well enjoying it, me.

Nice to read the thought process behind his past routines, and his thoughts on comedy in general. Engrossing stuff.

I know its not meant to be a full-on autobiog, but was a little dissapointed with how quickly he skimmed through his early work, like the radio stuff, those early gigs, On The Hour (and falling-out), and the partnership with Herring (though he crops up quite a bit). Jerry Springer - The Musical probably gets the most space, but even that feels pretty rushed.

Minor gripes though, as otherwise its a deeply interesting read that i can't actually put down at the moment. I just sorta hope he writes the proper autobiog at some point!

[Dead kate moss]

Yes, I'm enough of a cunt to refuse to believe that Stewart Lee's opinions could not possibly diverge enough from my own that he would approve of ironic disability jokes, and am willing to fashion an explanation for that.

I don't know what Lee's defence is, but as someone that used to work with the disabled, spastics mainly, I can say that what is especially alienating, annoying and dull for many is that they do not get the piss taken out of them like everyone else. It depends on who is telling the joke, but you can imagine how Bernard Manning saying he will have a go at anyone but the disabled is no sign of respect, and how Ricky Gervais is probably not going to be seen as genuinely offensive. Putting the wheelchair girl in The Office is worth much more than society's normal disinterest or worse pity. Oh my dad also has only one leg but couldn't give a shit about Heather McCartney jokes.

[Mister Six]

I don't know what Lee's defence is, but as someone that used to work with the disabled, spastics mainly, I can say that what is especially alienating, annoying and dull for many is that they do not get the piss taken out of them like everyone else. It depends on who is telling the joke, but you can imagine how Bernard Manning saying he will have a go at anyone but the disabled is no sign of respect, and how Ricky Gervais is probably not going to be seen as genuinely offensive. Putting the wheelchair girl in The Office is worth much more than society's normal disinterest or worse pity. Oh my dad also has only one leg but couldn't give a shit about Heather McCartney jokes.

Anecdotal evidence FTW.

You're not the only one with disabled relatives, friends and colleagues. Does my experience trump your experience? Do they cancel each other out?

More importantly, isn't it surprising to you that Lee, a man whose latest video has him going on a 45-minute rant about the 'ironic' laddish jokes told by Top Gear presenters, would defend that same behaviour in Carr and Gervais?

[Ignatius_S]

… Putting the wheelchair girl in The Office is worth much more than society's normal disinterest or worse pity….

Very very debatable.

The sole purpose of the ‘character’ – I use the term loosely as Merchant and Gervais didn’t feel it necessary to do provide the part with much of a character – was so Brent could look like a tit when he was dealing with someone with a disability.

Similarly, with a black employee joining the branch, the chief contribution to the show’s dynamic was so Brent could show himself up – and in a way that was rather hackneyed.

That there was a a wheelchair user was more of a novelty than anything else – having her patronised by another character doesn’t necessarily raise disability awareness.

[Howj Begg]

I don't know what Lee's defence is, but as someone that used to work with the disabled, spastics mainly,

Congrats, you are Matt Dillon's character in There's Something About Mary.

[The Grinch]

The sole purpose of the ‘character’ – I use the term loosely as Merchant and Gervais didn’t feel it necessary to do provide the part with much of a character – was so Brent could look like a tit when he was dealing with someone with a disability.

Then again, this was pretty much the purpose of 90% of the other characters, abled bodied or not, in 'The Office', wasn't it?

I hated the way they used disability/race/sexuality in 'Extras', that was when it REALLY seemed laboured. ''Uh-oh, here comes a guy with one foot - I wonder if one of the two principals are going to put their foot (arf!) in it by making an accidentally offensive comment in front of him?''

I loved reading Stewart Lee's book, found it absolutely fascinating and made me laugh quite a lot. It was interesting to see how often I'd misinterpreted bits of his routines.

The new DVD is great but I must say the bootlegged version from Edinburgh I have sounded much funnier on the whole. The forced discomfort/combating of the audience is brilliantly done in the DVD but it does suck the air out of things a little at times.

[Lt Plonker]

I don't know what Lee's defence is

Paul Putner asks him about those ironic racist/disabled jokes on one of the Comedy Vehicle commentaries and his reply is something along the lines of 'it depend on who's in the room/who the audience is'.

[buntyman]

The new DVD is great but I must say the bootlegged version from Edinburgh I have sounded much funnier on the whole.

Yeah the bootleg is much sharper and funnier, the DVD seems to be half an hour longer with the same amount of jokes as the Fringe show. As Lee admits in his book, sometimes he doesn't know how long to dwell on a particular joke and I don't think he gets the cut-off points quite right on the DVD. He's not really one for punchlines so if he does too much joke labouring in a set, the tailing off becomes more apparent. I'd recommend that bootleg to anyone who hasn't heard it, I'm not sure if The Grinch is referring to the one I posted a year ago or another similar one with better sound quality but PM if anyone would like the former.
I would rate his stand up DVD from best to worst as 90s, Stand Up, 41st and Milder.

[The Grinch]

Not sure if its the one you posted, at the start he has an exchange with a woman who doesn't take her kids to Cafe Nero and then tells her ''it's not your fault, I made the mistake of giving you the impression this is a dialogue''?

There was a great bit about the countryside which isn't in the DVD too, all that stuff about ''there's a horse in the countryside... and paddy thing, from max and paddy, is performing at the corn exchange, doing his joke''. Mind you, I did find it fascinating how the performance on that bootleg is so different from the one in the DVD. Made me admire him even more as a performer, despite the improvisations not always quite coming off.

[Paaaaul]

The countryside bit is being saved for Comedy Vehicle series 2.

[chand]

The countryside bit is being saved for Comedy Vehicle series 2.

That was a quite interesting bit, I wonder if he'll do the stuff about people moving to Canada/Australia for "quality of life". Probably quite an awkward sell to a lot of people.

Reading this book now, getting towards the end, and I've loved it so far. I like the footnote format, it's like a more structured and prepared version of a DVD commentary on his shows. I think he gets the right mix between being funny and interesting, I've really enjoyed reading the thought processes behind his material, which bits he drops, which bits he decided to cut/extend, why he chose certain words, bits he wouldn't do if he did the show again, etc, it's fascinating.

[Papercut]

Yeah the bootleg is much sharper and funnier, the DVD seems to be half an hour longer with the same amount of jokes as the Fringe show.

The live version of Milder I saw in London was also a lot funnier than in the DVD version, which was a bit disappointing. I think by the time it was filmed the audience perhaps had too good an idea what to expect, and some of the anger and audience baiting seems a lot more contrived than the earlier performance I saw.

The Kevin Eldon interview is fun though.

[Shameless]

Reading this book now, getting towards the end, and I've loved it so far. I like the footnote format, it's like a more structured and prepared version of a DVD commentary on his shows. I think he gets the right mix between being funny and interesting, I've really enjoyed reading the thought processes behind his material, which bits he drops, which bits he decided to cut/extend, why he chose certain words, bits he wouldn't do if he did the show again, etc, it's fascinating.

Yup, the footnotes (of which there be MANY) are really good, aren't they? Really honest and interesting, reading which bits he no longers likes, etc.

The only time he's lost me a bit, is his occasional knocking of all football fans, he even goes so far as to describe them all as scumbags (!!), which i thought was really off. Didn't appear to be a joke, either. Quite the sweeping statement!

Otherwise, yup, a fascinating read.

[icehaven]

Oh my dad also has only one leg but couldn't give a shit about Heather McCartney jokes.

It's Mills, not McCartney. Definitely, definitely Mills.

[Little Hoover]

The thing the Edinburgh show lacked though was much of a walking into the audience bit, and there wasn't really much anger to it. The DVD version being in a theatre with multiple levels of seating allows him to have a lot more fun with it. Although I think the DVD makes a mistake following him around. When I saw him in Richmond the funniest part of it, was just him wandering out of the side door, and his voice faintly echoing in the distance, eventually he finally emerges, perfectly timed on a mark in the balcony seating for the line "and I'm not mad you know!"

Most dates in the middle of the tour would have been the best time to see the show, but that'll usually be the case with any comedian.