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"Chris Morris helps train spies - MI5 agents told: Watch Four Lions"

Started by Neil, July 20, 2010, 04:10:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Neil

Quote from: http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2010/07/20/11402/chris_morris_helps_train_spies?rss
British intelligence agents have been told to watch Chris Morris's Four Lions movie to get a better understanding of home-grown terrorists.

A former CIA spy who provided research for Morris's comedy about a hapless English jihadist cell told the satirist that MI5 operatives were being 'encouraged' to watch the film.

Morris made the revelation during a Q&A session at the Latitude festival this weekend, two nights after his latest meeting with Marc Sageman, a former CIA case officer in Afghanistan and now a forensic psychiatrist and author of the influential book Understanding Terror Cells.

The comedian reiterated that the script, also written by Peep Show's Sam Bain and Jesse Armstrong, was inspired by real-life stories from reformed fundamentalists.

He said: 'We spoke to people who walked the path and came back, so we could paint an accurate picture. There's a guys' dynamic, even in a terrorist cell.'

Morris cited such real-life situations as an Algerian terrorist summoned to Bin Laden in the late Nineties. But at the meeting the visitor told the Al Qaeda chief that he would have nothing to do with his plans as he had his own atrocities, and delivering a withering put-down. 'Bin Laden was left sitting on a rock looking like a slapped child,' Morris said.

He also said that Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, the man convicted over the 1993 World Trade Center bombings, used to spend forever getting dressed as he was obsessed with appearing fat – and that when he quoted from the Koran he'd often get it wrong leaving his 'co-plotters pissing themselves laughing'.

And, Morris, says, it wasn't just the would-be mujahideen he learned about that could come a cropper, but the security services as well. He recalled: 'Once on surveillance operations in Northern Ireland, one of them was locked in the boot of the car – and the car got jacked by some youths.

'In virtually any job you will have people say, "You never guess what happened at work today".'

Morris said of the terrorist characters in his film: 'There's something ridiculous about them, as there is with every bunch of average blokes. They are basically going to balls it up as they go along.'

'But we felt that as silly as things got, we would never lose sight of the fact the these guys were playing with serious consequences. Being ridiculous doesn't stop you setting off an explosive. We hope we kept hold of both elements.'

He added that no topics should be off limits to comedians. 'It's not the subject, it's how you approach it,' he said. 'Any subject can be joked about, it depends if the joke is good enough. You ask, "Are you being funny?" If the joke doesn't gel, then you take it out. You don't stop yourself looking at topics because it has a warning on; if it touches a raw nerve, then people tend to be overprotective.'

Morris also said he was heartened by the reaction Four Lions had received in the States, where he feared a backlash for joking about terrorism.

'We were perhaps overly concerned about the States,' he admitted. 'It's played at three festivals and gone down well. We felt slightly guilty for having judged them.'

I so beat you :)

But yeah, worth its own thread. Why gather your own intelligence when you can base it on research for a comedy film.

thepuffpastryhangman

I believe at least one person suggested Four Lions is 'toeing the party line'.

actwithoutwords

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 20, 2010, 04:33:26 PM
I believe at least one person suggested Four Lions is 'toeing the party line'.

Could you specify who that was? I can't quite remember.
Are you implying this proves that person correct? At best I suppose it indicates that the film doesn't contain a radical insurrectionary message, or if it did, the perceived value of the details included in the film outweighs the risk of MI5 operators turning the gun on themselves in a fit of self loathing.

It's exactly the type of idiotic development that would have fitted in the film itself actually. (If Morris wanted to get a bit meta.)

thepuffpastryhangman

I don't recall the name of the thinktank. It's in the thread I believe. Or you could search for it under "idiotic" thinktanks.

But yeah, thinktanks eh, just a loada folks thinking and stuff, not much call for that down your way I guess, actwithoutwords.

actwithoutwords

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 20, 2010, 11:05:05 PM
I don't recall the name of the thinktank. It's in the thread I believe. Or you could search for it under "idiotic" thinktanks.

But yeah, thinktanks eh, just a loada folks thinking and stuff, not much call for that down your way I guess, actwithoutwords.

I think you may have misinterpreted there. 'Idiotic' was referring to MI5. But thanks for the personal insult nonetheless.




EDIT: Whoops. That earlier post should have read 'operatives', not 'operators'. I presume those who man the switchboard at MI5 aren't armed. Distinguishing the two words might have required thinking though. God forbid.

GentlePalms

 I'm 99% sure I read somewhere that the US military were made watch 'The Battle of Algiers' before being deployed in Iraq. There are people whose entire careers are based on finding any kind of angle from any kind of source to get some magical insight into the mind of the enemy. It doesn't make Morris any more of an establishment stooge than Pontecorvo. I mean, presumably they read the Quran as well.

thepuffpastryhangman

Sorry, in the first throws of the new format I misconstrued the implication of your post.

Apologies for that.

There was a broad in thread silence at the idea Four Lions was anything other than slapstick or an existentialist study.

thepuffpastryhangman

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 20, 2010, 11:23:15 PM
actwithoutwords - Sorry, in the first throws of the new format I misconstrued the implication of your post.

Apologies for that.

There was a broad in thread silence at the idea Four Lions was anything other than slapstick or an existentialist study.

actwithoutwords

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 20, 2010, 11:23:15 PM
There was a broad in thread silence at the idea Four Lions was anything other than slapstick or an existentialist study.



I do believe that, in response to your repeated point that the film was deficient in some way for not for being a wide-ranging political polemic that had a go at fackin' Israel, the point was made that a)Four Lions was primarily, but not exclusively, a character study, and b)that there's nothing wrong with that; there's no imperative that Morris should make a different kind of film with all-encompassing scope. This clearly doesn't mean the film is in some kind of apolitical bubble though. (Despite the fact there were a few people unwilling to take it seriously as a film full stop, which I don't agree with.)

Incidentally, using the phrase 'toeing the party line' which clearly implies intentionality, also shows up your disingenuous implications in the previous thread of "maybe he deliberately set out to make an establishment friendly film, maybe it's just a coincidence. It's not for me to say, eh lads..." Which you used to worm out of actually backing up your argument as to how and why Morris made the film you seem to think Four Lions is.

Speaking of which, given that the Power of Nightmares was mentioned a number of occasions before, isn't fear a major element of the party line? That we must be scared of the sinister muslims who have the capacity and will to wreak horror at any moment. Do you think anyone came out of Four Lions afraid? (except of the arbitrary actions of the security authorities)


As regards the unnecessary insult, misconstrual or not (and I can't quite figure out what you thought I was implying, that your post was so idiotic it would fit in the film? erm...), your knee jerk recourse says an awful lot about your approach to people here. God forbid people might actually have similar political/social/economic ideals and yet come to different conclusions than you. They're just not thinking hard enough, or indeed, at all.

thepuffpastryhangman

I expected nowt of Morris (politically). I am not suggested deliberate collaboration or vague cosying up, it was just wholesale wrong that's all.

Nor did I suggest any film should, or, ha, would be anti-Israel. But to not be for us, in time of war, is to be agen us.

Yesterday the Guardian published it's 'Media top 100', four of the top, most powerful eight are Jewish ( is Simon Cowell half-Jewish?). Either way I ain't seeing no brothers, no blacks, no Muslims "no Irish" in that top ten. The Guardian's Media list over represents OVER ONE THOUSAND TIMES versus per capita. This, of course, has nothing to do with the movies. This movie or any movie, oh no. No sympathy to see here.

Neil

McQ very kindly supplied a bootleg of the Latitude Q&A, and I'm happy enough to start circulating these, now that we now roughly what's going to be on the DVD.  Just doing some work on the levels, but will be posting the Q&A and intro later.

When I said Four Lions was exactly the kind of propaganda Blair and Bush would have whacked themselves raw over (ok, so I didn't actually say that, but...), I thought to myself, 'what one thing would change that view?'.  I said to myself, '(almost) official endorsement by our whiter than white intelligence agencies, that'd do it'. 

So, there you go.  I stand corrected.  This film IS amazing. 


Mr_Simnock

Quote from TPPHM
QuoteYesterday the Guardian published it's 'Media top 100', four of the top, most powerful eight are Jewish ( is Simon Cowell half-Jewish?). Either way I ain't seeing no brothers, no blacks, no Muslims "no Irish" in that top ten. The Guardian's Media list over represents OVER ONE THOUSAND TIMES versus per capita. This, of course, has nothing to do with the movies. This movie or any movie, oh no. No sympathy to see here

What on earth has this been posted for here? Is this a lets kick the Jews thread? does it anywhere in the thread title say 'lets all be antisemitic', for gods sakes this is getting silly. How many other threads have you, for no discernible reason, chucked in a reply banging on about jews being richer than other groups in society, or why they have so much controle over the media? Any one would think you were an antisemite (given the sheer number of jew bashing posts).

Shoulders?-Stomach!

This must now be a joke, nobody could be this pre-occupied by the same topic.

QuoteYesterday the Guardian published it's 'Media top 100', four of the top, most powerful eight are Jewish ( is Simon Cowell half-Jewish?). Either way I ain't seeing no brothers, no blacks, no Muslims "no Irish" in that top ten.

Please, seriously shut up.


Quote from: Mr_Simnock on July 21, 2010, 12:45:27 PM
Quote from TPPHM
What on earth has this been posted for here? Is this a lets kick the Jews thread? does it anywhere in the thread title say 'lets all be antisemitic', for gods sakes this is getting silly. How many other threads have you, for no discernible reason, chucked in a reply banging on about jews being richer than other groups in society, or why they have so much controle over the media? Any one would think you were an antisemite (given the sheer number of jew bashing posts).

Hi Mr Simnock,

You are misrepresenting what PPHM is saying, it isn't anti-semetic to point out that, in the case of the Guardian Media 100 at least, Jews are represented in a higher concentration than for example, blacks, Irish or Muslims.   Your reaction seems a bit extreme?




JPA

Quote from: Conans Lego Toaster on July 21, 2010, 12:44:08 PM
When I said Four Lions was exactly the kind of propaganda Blair and Bush would have whacked themselves raw over

How so?

Sovereign

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 21, 2010, 03:20:50 AM

Yesterday the Guardian published it's 'Media top 100', four of the top, most powerful eight are Jewish ( is Simon Cowell half-Jewish?). Either way I ain't seeing no brothers, no blacks, no Muslims "no Irish" in that top ten. The Guardian's Media list over represents OVER ONE THOUSAND TIMES versus per capita. This, of course, has nothing to do with the movies. This movie or any movie, oh no. No sympathy to see here.

Can I add my own objection to this post? I'm getting sick of hearing the anti-semitism from you TPPH, fuck off back to stormfront.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Conans Lego ToasterYou are misrepresenting what PPHM is saying- it isn't anti-semetic to point out that, in the case of the Guardian Media 100 at least, Jews are represented in a higher concentration than for example, blacks, Irish or Muslims.

You're misrepresenting what Mr Simnock is saying.

Quote from: Mr SimnockAny one would think you were an antisemite (given the sheer number of jew bashing posts).


Quote from: JPA on July 21, 2010, 12:58:03 PM
How so?

The film takes a very, very shallow view of terrorism, the causes and sponsors of it.  It is very establishment in that sense. 


DuncanC

Could you give an example of something with a deeper, more nuanced view of terrorism (and give a brief outline of the view it gives, if possible)? I'm not disagreeing but I really just don't know what you mean exactly.

Sovereign

Quote from: Conans Lego Toaster on July 21, 2010, 01:21:55 PM
The film takes a very, very shallow view of terrorism, the causes and sponsors of it.  It is very establishment in that sense.

It's not really a film about what causes terrorism though, is it, it's film about how incompetend terrorists are, and how their inability to cope with everday life is part of the mindset that many terrorists have. It's also why they fuck up so often, the  incompetence that makes it impossible for them to cope with a liberal western culture is the same incompetence that leads to them fucking up their attacks.

The Wind That Shakes the Barley is a better film when it comes to dealing with the the history and politics behind terrorism (if that's what you choose to call it...) but it's not exactly packed with laughs, is it?

Neil



Chris Morris - Four Lions Intro at Latitude 16th July 2010

With huge thanks to @McKuw for capturing it.  First time I've tried fixing the audio with one of these, and it definitely seems worth doing for the rest.  So I'll get the Q&A portion of this finished today, and hopefully the one with Brooker hosting as well.

weirdbeard

God, what's with the bizarrely OTT warnings about recording?  Who insists on these massive overreactions?

Sovereign

Quote from: weirdbeard on July 21, 2010, 02:13:05 PM
God, what's with the bizarrely OTT warnings about recording?  Who insists on these massive overreactions?

didn't work though, did it?

McQ


DJ Solid Snail

Heh, it's fantastic hearing Morris immediately undermine that ghastly woman's intro. Looking forward to the Q&A.

Neil

Seeing Chortle and the like wanting to make Morris into some A-Team anti-terrorist figure, makes me wonder about putting up the actual comments, but it's a recording of what was actually said.  There's going to be video on the Bafta site at some point this week, too.  Thanks, McQ, for this audio, it's fascinating to hear Morris in front of a festival audience. 

Quote from: weirdbeard on July 21, 2010, 02:13:05 PM
God, what's with the bizarrely OTT warnings about recording?  Who insists on these massive overreactions?

'Two men with night vision googles...will take your mobiles off you'.

Aside from the fact that she should have said '...take your mobiles FROM you'.  Can you be-fucking-leave that?  It's embarrassing.