Topic: Grandma's House - new Simon Amstell vehicle

[DJ One Record]

That wasn't too bad in a 'Royle Family on Tizer' sort of way - sugary and exaggerated. Amstell's non-acting seems to consist of him doing silly voices to make a point, which is occasionally amusing but mostly glaringly obvious. I wonder if he's read True And False by David Mamet.

At the risk of giving the wrong impression about the show to passers-by, I liked the "cancer or raisins" bit.

I'll definitely watch next week's.

[Artemis]

I'll definitely watch next week's.

Yep, me too. I'd imagine it stands up well on a repeat viewing too.

[Vitalstatistix]

The writing is much better than the performances.

Whether this will be the show's fatal flaw only time will tell. I like Amstell, but I found him pretty grating in this, maybe a productive career behind the camera awaits?

[Blue Jam]

"Have you tried meditation?" "NO!!!!" and "My father has cancer and my son is bald" made me laugh but otherwise...

The writing is much better than the performances.

...summed it up for me. So many lines were ruined by bad timing, "she doesn't live round here" probably being the best example. I quite liked Amstell's non-acting though, he reminded me of Naboo in the Mighty Boosh after I heard someone describing Naboo's style as "nativity play". James Smith was jarring, he kept reminding me of Dave's annoying dad in The Royle Family, the one who kept pronouncing Barbera's name as as "Bar.Bear.Raahhh", and that is not a compliment. Although I found the whole thing a little painful to watch I might still give it a second chance, based on the writing.

My favourite bit was Amstell's dramatic sigh before "doing his Dame Edna".

[HodgerMccodger]

I liked the Dame Edna bit as well, there was a real sense of tension and despair to it.

I also liked it when the child’s shaved head was revealed, just after the prostate cancer revelation, and the father said indignantly “Is he taking the piss?” It was just thrown in underneath the main dialogue, as if the writers were trying to amuse themselves, it reminded me of the Father Ted, Chris the Sheep “Fucking Hell” bit.

I have felt that Simon Amstel’s comedic voice (which is quite biting and hard nosed) undermines those moments when he tries to be soft, vulnerable or appeal to audience sympathy (when his voice goes high and pleading) so you never really believe it. In this show he seemed to be doing the high pleading voice thing all the way through, which I think prevented there from being a proper dramatic peak, or shift in mood or emotion- because from the start Simon was being vulnerable and panicky, and then with every event (Clive, Father’s Cancer, Boy’s Shaved head, Dinner...) there was just more of the high voice.

Also Rebecca Front was surprisingly bad. And I found it difficult to believe Simon Amstel would come from the white working class background environment which it was set in.

My overall experience though was of trying to like something that wasn’t really very good (because I like the people in it).

[Ja'moke]

At the risk of giving the wrong impression about the show to passers-by, I liked the "cancer or raisins" bit.

That reminded me too much of the (better) gag in I'm Alan Partridge when he says "I thought I found a lump under my armpit once, horrible, horrible, turns out it was just knot in my vest."

I did like Grandma's House though, despite the negative start to my post. I thought there were lots of nice lines, and gags littered throughout, and the plotting was handled very well. As others have touched upon, it was the performances that let it down, Rebecca Front, who is usually outstanding in anything she appears in, was particularly hammy and over-the-top. And I couldn't get used to Simon Amstell the character. I'm hoping these aspects gel better over the course of the series.

[djtrees]

Also Rebecca Front was surprisingly bad. And I found it difficult to believe Simon Amstel would come from the white working class background environment which it was set in.

I dread to say this, but I thought the family was Jew-ish. I have no reason to think this like[1], just that I thought that is how they came across. I enjoyed this especially Amstell, who I watched a bit when he was on Popworld, but I haven't watched Never Mind the Buzzcocks properly ever. The bit where he was getting tickled was good, and his disgust at his cousins general behaviour was good, even though it was a cheap reference to some internet lols thing.

1.	Just having rewatched a bit of it the Dad/Grandad feller says a few Yiddish phrases doesn't he? I wouldn't know I'm not one of them Jews.

[Old Sally Fuckbottom]

Middle class people can have accents like that. They didn't really mention anything particularly working class, like crap jobs or The Sun (oh, I don't know). Also, Grandma has a fairly big semi-detached house in Ilford (I think) which is unlikely to be owned by somebody who retired from a cleaning job.

[benthalo]

Also, Grandma has a fairly big semi-detached house in Ilford (I think) which is unlikely to be owned by somebody who retired from a cleaning job.

Trivia: both Amstell and Front hail from Gant's Hill, near Ilford.

[HodgerMccodger]

I wouldn’t want to try and prove that the representation was working class

However I do think that the other characters were creating a “Royal Family”, “Abigail’s Party”, “Only Fools and Horses” type situation. While Simon’s character seemed like it would make more sense around “My Family”, “Outnumbered”, or “The Good Life” type characters. Just in the way they related, the anxieties they had and so on.

You’re right she did have a big house, but maybe Simon bought it with the money from the TV shows.

Also Middle Class people can have accents like that; I wouldn’t want to make too much of a point about the accents, although it was also true that Simon didn’t have an accent like Rebecca’s or the others

Perhaps people would prefer to call it lower middle class, or new money-

I suppose my point was, however poorly expressed with crude, untenable generalisations, it was difficult to believe that Simon fitted in with the family.

It seemed a bit like the Royal Family but after Ralph Little had stopped smoking, got a good education and balanced diet, gone to university, had a successful career in the media, dropped his accent, become confident, developed acute self conscious hang ups around how he was perceived, started playfully indulging beliefs about eastern philosophy and alternative medicine - and then came back dressed in trendy clothes and was a bit embarrassed by everything.

[DJ One Record]

Hmmm...to be honest, I'm finding this show becoming a bit of a chore to sit through now.

Things that I liked about it:

• the numerous false-starts of Liz's birthday celebrations and the general apathy towards it.
• "The characters are eggs." "Oh dear." And most of the egg play related stuff until the murder bit.
• Amstell's gangly posture.

The show isn't particularly laugh a minute, though, and genuinely funny moments are few and far between. And the combination of Amstell's underacting with the rest of the family's (bar the grandpa) overacting means that the attempts to try and throw some drama into the mix, like the private discussions between Simon and Clive, just come across as static filler, where in a show like The Royle Family they could be wholly engaging.

Beyond that, something else irked me with this episode. There are some character dynamics in comedy that I find just tedious, and the one where the main character dishes out right-on sarcasm towards his family's racist remarks is one of them. Whether it's based on true family experience or not, that kind of "all these people are being idiots" passive aggressiveness feels particularly self-aggrandizing for someone playing 'a version of themself.' Amstell's racial politics are hardly as refreshing or cutting edge as I imagine he thinks they are.

I'm gonna let someone else tackle the somewhat awkward spectacle of 'Rebecca Front does Beyonce'.

[icehaven]

I know it's supposed to be there (and it was referred to last week) but I find the Sister's moustache so distracting that I can't hear what anyone's saying when her face is on the screen. And what kind of timescale is supposed to have elapsed since the last episode? The Grandad implied he'd only just been examined for cancer, suggesting it was only a few days/a week or so, but the little cousin shaved his head last time and now he's got a full head of hair again. Thus ends Hairwatch.   

[mini goatbix]

Beyond that, something else irked me with this episode. There are some character dynamics in comedy that I find just tedious, and the one where the main character dishes out right-on sarcasm towards his family's racist remarks is one of them. Whether it's based on true family experience or not, that kind of "all these people are being idiots" passive aggressiveness feels particularly self-aggrandizing for someone playing 'a version of themself.' Amstell's racial politics are hardly as refreshing or cutting edge as I imagine he thinks they are.

I saw that scene being about his frustration that he's coming from an environment (the BBC) in which racism is simply wrong and where his witty put downs have power and kudos, but then he returns to his family where he has no power of argument and his attempts to be pithy and clever are completely ignored. I thnk the point was not 'oh look at the stupid racists, Amstell will show up their foolishness' but more that he couldn't argue with them effectively, even though he knew he was right.

Amstell never comes across as the together, Blackadder-style character because he can't deal with situastion at all, he says and does everything wrong while his family are the ones who know how to relate to each other and the situation.

I don't find this series very funny, but I do find it quite soothing. I like the way it shows the difficulty of visiting your family and trying to be your adult self, when everybody wants you to behave like you used to. I'm not sure if I'm making excuses or finding reasons where there aren't any, but I think Rebecca Front is meant to be over the top and difficult to watch, because that is how Amstell finds her, but for all her embarassing behaviour, she is still more likeable and more capable of being entertaining than Amstell and since he is the one on the telly, that shows him up quite well.

[Old Sally Fuckbottom]

I agree. I don't think this is great (or even good comedy) but I like it.

[Ja'moke]

I actually really enjoyed the second episode, I thought the pacing was better, and it was stronger on the laughs.

The scene between Simon and Clive and the car was great:

"She's been gang-raped."
"Well, lets give her some privacy."
"Look, she's red."
"She's probably embarrassed."

[rimbaud]

I saw that scene being about his frustration that he's coming from an environment (the BBC) in which racism is simply wrong and where his witty put downs have power and kudos, but then he returns to his family where he has no power of argument and his attempts to be pithy and clever are completely ignored. I thnk the point was not 'oh look at the stupid racists, Amstell will show up their foolishness' but more that he couldn't argue with them effectively, even though he knew he was right.

Amstell never comes across as the together, Blackadder-style character because he can't deal with situastion at all, he says and does everything wrong while his family are the ones who know how to relate to each other and the situation.

These words are incredibly wise.   I almost dare not hope but this is a very decent series so far.

[Stanley Turbine]

I dread to say this, but I thought the family was Jew-ish. I have no reason to think this like[1], just that I thought that is how they came across. I enjoyed this especially Amstell, who I watched a bit when he was on Popworld, but I haven't watched Never Mind the Buzzcocks properly ever. The bit where he was getting tickled was good, and his disgust at his cousins general behaviour was good, even though it was a cheap reference to some internet lols thing.

1.	Just having rewatched a bit of it the Dad/Grandad feller says a few Yiddish phrases doesn't he? I wouldn't know I'm not one of them Jews.

I just watched the first episode and one the the characters (his aunt?) says, "when were you planning to tell us this, at the shiva?" after he announces his granddad has cancer, so I think that's pretty conclusive evidence. Also Simon Amstell's real family is Jewish.

[eluc55]

Simply put, I fucking love this show.

I cant begin to explain how much. I feel moderately giddy, like Madonna touched for the very first time, or a camel full-humped after a year long drought. The writing is quite possibly the best in any brit comedy for what feels like 10 years, and I've come to realise that the cast is brilliant too. More great moments in one episode than Thick of It managed in 8. Underlying themes, intelligent writing, sad and touching AND ITS FUNNY - something almost no British sitcom - has managed in a decade; killer line after killer line.

The most excited I've been about a comedy since Consolevania. I bloody love this show.

[Ralph Cifaretto]

Simply put, I fucking love this show.

I cant begin to explain how much. I feel moderately giddy, like Madonna touched for the very first time, or a camel full-humped after a year long drought. The writing is quite possibly the best in any brit comedy for what feels like 10 years, and I've come to realise that the cast is brilliant too. More great moments in one episode than Thick of It managed in 8. Underlying themes, intelligent writing, sad and touching AND ITS FUNNY - something almost no British sitcom - has managed in a decade; killer line after killer line.

The most excited I've been about a comedy since Consolevania. I bloody love this show.

Did you actually watch The Thick of It? The 2nd series (8 eps) weren't amazing but the 1st 6 eps are helluva funny. Whilst watching Grandma's, made me think of TTOI, what a great comedy actor James Smith is. And although it's nice to see him getting some work, that's all this is, 'some work' compared to his role as Glen Cullen.

Killer line after killer line?! It was ok, in the same way Rev was ok, and The Great Outdoors is ok. So Peep Show isn't funny?

[eluc55]

Did you actually watch The Thick of It? The 2nd series (8 eps) weren't amazing but the 1st 6 eps are helluva funny. Whilst watching Grandma's, made me think of TTOI, what a great comedy actor James Smith is. And although it's nice to see him getting some work, that's all this is, 'some work' compared to his role as Glen Cullen.

Killer line after killer line?! It was ok, in the same way Rev was ok, and The Great Outdoors is ok. So Peep Show isn't funny?

Sorry I meant to specify the most recent series of TTOI, which I think this is comfortably better than. Tons going on underneath the surface, and yes, numerous great lines in each episode. Significantly more than series 3 of TTOI.

Wierdly James Smith is the worst thing in this, and I agree Glen's a much better character. 

First Peep show Series is very good, but again, that's years ago.

[eluc55]

I think one thing this show is doing very well is the way it looks at the obvious disconnect between reality and art. The idea of expressing "truth" in his egg play, James Smith's artificiality, the way Amstell has to affect a "character" like his TV personna to talk to the boy he fancies, the way he despises the superficiality of Buzzcocks, and how swayed his superficial mother is by celebrity, plus the acting coach and the inarticulate - but apparently talented - actor; crucially, as others have noted, the fact that, outside his tv show, he has no power or control over the people surrounding him. And of course the various references to how he wants to act.

There's a lot going on that isn't articulated in the script. Just because there aren't pages of discussion about it on here, doesn't mean it isn't there to be discovered. 

[Ralph Cifaretto]

I think one thing this show is doing very well is the way it looks at the obvious disconnect between reality and art. The idea of expressing "truth" in his egg play, James Smith's artificiality, the way Amstell has to affect a "character" like his TV personna to talk to the boy he fancies, the way he despises the superficiality of Buzzcocks, and how swayed his superficial mother is by celebrity, plus the acting coach and the inarticulate - but apparently talented - actor; crucially, as others have noted, the fact that, outside his tv show, he has no power or control over the people surrounding him. And of course the various references to how he wants to act.

There's a lot going on that isn't articulated in the script. Just because there aren't pages of discussion about it on here, doesn't mean it isn't there to be discovered.

With reference to the tag about Garry Shandling, a lot of similar themes are found in Larry Sanders eluc. Alright not precisely but same ball-park. Is it just because this is British that you've placed it on a pedal stool because Sanders is funnier and there's more episodes. So that compared to another Sanders rip off Extras, there are things going on subtly which makes the thing worthwhile, hasnt this ground been covered before? I'd rather see the egg play than a comedy performer 'subverting' his persona again.

[eluc55]

With reference to the tag about Garry Shandling, a lot of similar themes are found in Larry Sanders eluc. Alright not precisely but same ball-park. Is it just because this is British that you've placed it on a pedal stool because Sanders is funnier and there's more episodes. So that compared to another Sanders rip off Extras, there are things going on subtly which makes the thing worthwhile, hasnt this ground been covered before? I'd rather see the egg play than a comedy performer 'subverting' his persona again.

Larry Sanders is unquestionably better, yes. Again though, that's an old show, and as you point out, american. There are a number of US shows that are comfortably better than this.

Re: Extras... not quite sure what you're saying, but basically, I think this is much better than that. Much more going on thematically, with a smarter script, better drawn characters and much, much funnier.

For me, thats what makes this stand out. As you rightly say, there have been a glut of "comedians playing themselves", but this is the first one in years that's consistantly laugh out loud funny. I also think it helps that its not about "TV", its about family. He just happens to be famous.   

[Mildly Diverting]

Simply put, I fucking love this show.

With you all the way on that. The mix of comedy and slight poignancy is beautifully mixed. Amstell seems to be improving as an actor by the episode as well. The casting is great - I was a bit wary of Rebecca Front in Ep 1, but she's really grown on  me. I'm not really arsed about comparisons to Sanders/Curb et al. It just makes me laugh, so its doing the job right for me.

And the delivery of "I just wanked into her pencil case" was beautiful.

[Ja'moke]

Add me as another who is beginning to love this show, each episode has improved on the last one. The first episode brought some tittering, second episode induced audible chuckling, and now by episode three I am happily laughing out loud. The plots are very Seinfeldian in the way they are constructed and concluded, but not so much that it seems like a rip-off, like Lead Balloon did with Curb Your Enthusiasm. Amstell's acting style no longer annoys me, which is a great help, because that's what I initially found off-putting.

I'm a big fan of metafiction, I loved Seinfeld Season 4, and I'm huge fan of Charlie Kaufman's work, so having the stuff about Simon the character quitting his show and struggling to write something meaningful, is a treat to watch. I loved the stuff regarding his play, and how that came up again this week when Simon was trying to impress that actor, "Simon wrote a play, y'know. It's about eggs." And eventually he revealed last night that he is thinking about writing something about his family, so it's definitely opened up some interesting paths to follow. And I agree with what Eluc says, the fact that it isn't set within the world of "television", but is instead tackling ideas about fame, celebrity and art within the family is what makes it stand-out from shows of a similar ilk.

[helivade]

I am kinda loving this shit and it makes me happy to see you dorks getting into it because otherwise I would fear that I had fallen into the kind of truly repulsive anglophilia that leads people from Iowa City to develop crushes on Noel Fielding

[Blue Jam]

I've changed my mind about this too, have the episodes gotten better or did this just take a while to get into? I really enjoyed this week's, Rebecca Fraaaaanhnt's accent still grates ("...it's FANNY!") but I'm loving Simon Amstell's underconfident non-performance even more now.

[Mildly Diverting]

I thought it was a disappointing episode last night, but it still had some entertaining moments. The internet calls for Simon's death raised a smirk, although I'm feeling that the autobiographic nature is back-firing. In real life, Simon Amstell is still a big name, not some 'I'm a celeb...' trying to rehash a career. The crossover between fact and fiction didn't quite ring true for me.

[eluc55]

Another good episode, although I'd agree it wasn't as strong as the previous two; more dramatic moments this time; the confrontation with Clive where Simon let it all pour out was handled really well I thought; didn't play it for laughs really... just a moment where Simon's passive aggressive mask slipped to reveal something more unpleasant and bitter, and even the reveal didn't dwell on any awkwardness; it just seemed quite sad, and made you really sympathise with Clive for the first time since episode 1. A lovely gesture thrown back at him, and unlike the car Simon bought his mum in episode 2, one without an alternative motive. A great subversion of the two characters there.

I actually thought this was a great episode for Amstell; both that "Videos" scene and the one with his Grandfather in bed hinted at a man close to a breakdown; frustrated, impulsive, nervous, angry, distant, the way he talks, the way he moved...  and of course, the advise he was giving out wasn't in his Grandfather's interests at all. Again, a very sad scene at its core, that.

But funny! Not as funny as the last two episodes, certainly... but still tonnes of great lines, one after another, after another. The first 10 minutes in particular were very strong.

"Do you know what I cleaned out for the first time in 10 years?"
"Oh Jesus"

"You're not afraid of heights"
"I'm afraid of being a desperate tit in a balloon" 

I'm feeling that the autobiographic nature is back-firing. In real life, Simon Amstell is still a big name, not some 'I'm a celeb...' trying to rehash a career.

But the character isn't trying to rehash his career; he's completely clueless about what he wants to do next and trying to find a more worthwhile artistic pursuit. TBH, considering that before this series started, he'd been away from mainstream TV for 2 years, I think its very likely The Real Simon's been asked to do some crap celeb programs. Crucially in this show, he's not washed up yet... but he's at the point where, as he's been away from TV for a while, people are just begnning to say that he is.

In other news: I love the grandparents relationship; the little asides they make to each other, and that lovely story about the captain's table. All feels incredibly believable and very touching, without being heavyhanded or overly-sentimental. Even the little glances between the daughters was a nice touch.

Such a great show; so much to take in, so much beyond the obvious, so many great lines, subtle nuances, clever call backs, increasingly complex characterisations, underlying sadness and subtle series arcs. Anyone know what the viewing figures are? I bet they're awful, but I'd love to be proved wrong.

[mini goatbix]

I don't usually like slow naturalistic comedies - I didn't even like The Office - but there are little details in this that keep steering it away from the usual comedy routes. I loved that throughout the series Amstell has tried to reject his past, keeps begging his family not to remind him of his childhood performances, but then when he discovers that all his childhood tapes have been destroyed he is furious and his earlier protestations and apparent modesty are shown to be completely false. I also like that he keeps throwing in buddhist philosophy, but uses it with no awareness for the people he is speaking too, so it makes him look more shallow and self-involved than ever.

He isn't the good guy, he isn't cool or witty enough to be an anti-hero so he never seems like a proper character, more like the rest of us - trying to be a good person, but largely failing. There are other comedies like this, but unlike them I don't find this painful to watch, maybe because no one seems truly tragic, they all have good things and hopes for the future. Also no unpleasant incident is really dwelt on, they all carry on as a family, smoothing over arguments, laughing, singing and teasing their way through it all.