Topic: Grandma's House - new Simon Amstell vehicle

[Lfbarfe]

I don't find the family dynamic convincing, the characters are all pretty 'one note'

See, that's the thing that pulls me in. The family dynamic is convincing to me because it's painfully recognisable. As for the characters being 'one note', a lot of real people are too.

[eluc55]

I don't think they are one note anyway; some of them seem that way at first, but the brilliant thing about this show is that with every episode more and more is peeled way from each main character to reveal something else beneath the surface. Unexpected motivations, agendas, ideals... In fact, its the over-riding theme; what's real in art and life, and how much does it really matter? Pretensions, superficial desires, false images we project. It's not one note; its just not heavy handed. 

[hummingofevil]

I don't think they are one note anyway; some of them seem that way at first, but the brilliant thing about this show is that with every episode more and more is peeled way from each main character to reveal something else beneath the surface. Unexpected motivations, agendas, ideals... In fact, its the over-riding theme; what's real in art and life, and how much does it really matter? Pretensions, superficial desires, false images we project. It's not one note; its just not heavy handed.

Also, to add to this the fact that there are these slow reveals occuring for most of the characters makes it, well, really quite exciting to me. I can't wait to find out if Simon gets to write his sitcom (or is it a play?) and how much of Clive's past is going to come back to haunt him in a big way. In fact the Clive thing is probably my favorite idea in it because everytime Simon (and the audience) find out more about his dodgy past then the rest of the family already seem to know. It is implied that there are plenty of conversations that occur between the rest of the family without him being there and it just adds to the mood that Simon struggles to adapt in the family environment and even that he doesn't really spend that much time with them. I really hope that there is something far bigger that they are keeping from him as the series reaches its final episodes!

[DJ One Record]

I think what I like about the show is there's a theme of transition that pervades throughout most aspects of it. Both the real and the fictional Amstell are in an area of uncertainty, having just left a big BBC show in an attempt to pursue avenues of a potentially more artistically rewarding but less career-serving nature. The show itself seems to fall into a strange sort of in-between world - it's not a masterpiece but nor is it just a stop-gap gig for Amstell: it's a transitional creation that will most likely lead him towards his next piece of work, albeit with no obvious signposting of what that work might be. Even the setting of the show itself is transitional: neither Amstell nor most of his family actually live in the house where all the action of the show takes place. It's a strangely peripheral location for Amstell's life that somehow manages to be central at the same time in terms of the issues that it throws up for him.

The show is neither one thing nor the other and that makes it numerously fascinating for me. I say fascinating: I'd be lying if I said I'd gotten a huge number of laughs out of this show, and it's not through a lack of seeing where the laughs are supposed to be. And yet four episodes in I'm still watching, and still looking forward to the next episode.

[Johnny Yesno]

That's the kind of writing I love about this show. A single throwaway line turns a character on its head.

...

It was only really this week, where the dialogue called for less cheesy "captain" turns of phrase, that I started to appreciate the character more. Although I did love the whole toilet scene at the end of episode 2. Nice seeing that like all the characters in this show - bar adam - there's something more beneath the front he portrays; a very angry, aggressive, controlling side, and from the "stained children" story this week - he fled the country - more immoral than the cosy image he presents.

I'm interested to see where that comment from Clive about having seen the world through the bottom of a bottle will lead. Perhaps he really did kill someone or maybe the stained kids event affected him badly. Perhaps he's way more sensitive than his blunt character suggests.

[eluc55]

Not sure what to take from these ratings.

First episode watched by 1.8 million, but by episode 4, they had dropped to 1.2 million (1.3 including HD)

I've no idea if they then add iplayer figures to that total, or if that drop of 0.6 million viewers is normal after the first episode. Obviously they drop off, but is that an excessive drop? 

At least its still above 1 million, and still has a chance of being recommisioned for a second series, if its left open to do one. I don't see it myself, though.

[Steve Williams]

I've no idea if they then add iplayer figures to that total, or if that drop of 0.6 million viewers is normal after the first episode. Obviously they drop off, but is that an excessive drop? 

Not especially, most sitcoms do drop off quite a bit. Not sure what to compare it to but that seems good enough for Mondays at ten, Mitchell and Webb and Shooting Stars were getting about 1.5 to 1.7 million for their recent series, and they're much longer established and, I think, more mainstream. In addition I think it's more than the series before last of The IT Crowd which was only getting around a million and got recommissioned - although the ratings for the most recent series doubled, to around 1.9 million, helped by being in the middle of Big Brother. In fact Amstell is getting about the same as Pete vs Life, which is also benefitting from a Big Brother sandwich.

It's doing better than The Persuasionists, though, we can confirm that. So I'm thinking they'd be happy with that.

As for hiw they calculate them, I think iPlayer ratings are included from Virgin TV as it's through the telly but definitely not online. The figures are reported, though, and obviously they'll take them into consideration.

[vrailaine]

Catching up on this, Rev and the IT crowd now that I'm back at uni. Liked Rev most initially but I'm starting to love this three episodes in, haven't laughed once but that's nothing out of the ordinary. Most the characters didn't seem to really work in the first episode(especially Amstell and Front) but they're really finding their feet now I find.
James Smith's character is meant to come across as false and forced I thought cos he's he's probably some sort of closet nutjob, no?

They're both a lot better than I was expecting anyways.
Can't see this show getting recommissioned, Amstell's main audience probably turned off after a few minutes and a lot of other people probably never turned it on cos he was in it.

Looking forward to his standup DVD too, never seen him, I'm sure there's some stuff on youtube but I can wait.

[Little Hoover]

It wouldn't suprise me that this would have a higher than usual drop-off because Amstel would carry with him an audience that would be put off by this.
1.8 is a good start though. I'd would have thought it has a decent chance as long as it stays above 1 million. It wouldn't suprise me if they didn't even want to write a 2nd series though, I'm intrigued to see how the series will end.

[Steve Lampkins]

You can count me as another person who thinks this is great.


Thanks, Neil and Kelvin, for the discussion on CaB Radio last night, some good points made.


About the two broadest characters, Tanya and Clive, it works for me. Clive, as others have said, is quite false. Maybe he wants to come across as a person who does not kill people or stain children.

Tanya comes across as a frustrated thespian/singer, who fills her life with mundane drama (and wants to live through Simon vicariously), which translates to her way of speaking (and breaking into song).

[eluc55]

I think its was Fry, earlier in this thread who came up with the most compelling and interesting take on Clive, and the one which best explains the performance for me. Specifically, if Clive has recovered from a breakdown, its possible he hasn't always been "blokey", but rather this is a much more recent coping mechanism for dealing with life and the people around him. Not only does it provide an interesting parallel with Simon, whose getting increasingly depressed, but also means that the way he talks and acts isn't natural to him - or certainly not a life time long character trait - but in fact even more of a forced construct than was first suggested. That would certainly explain the broadness of the performance, as its not his natural personality, so much as a front for someone still very depressed and/or angry, which has certainly been hinted at several times on screen.     

re: Hoover's point... it occurred to me as well, that Amstell may not want to do another series, but then I can't see the BBC commissioning a sitcom with only one series in mind. They'd at least want to believe it could run to another if the ratings were good enough. If the series reaches a natural conclusion, I'll be happy, but I'd love to see them expand the concept with another series. Maybe stretch the format a bit. 

[Tiny Poster]

Specifically, if Clive has recovered from a breakdown, its possible he hasn't always been "blokey", but rather this is a much more recent coping mechanism for dealing with life and the people around him.

This is how I see it. The guy has had a pretty horrible life (involuntary manslaughter, gross negligence and alcoholism) so he's putting a up a 'brave' confident front; not just for himself but for Simon's family too.

[eluc55]

We figured that you pitch an idea, they commission the script, you shoot a pilot, and you're away. And that is indeed the process, give or take a draft or 70; a number of table reads; a pilot which flies straight on to the pile marked, "Hmmm, might work with a story"; a lot of arguing; hours – even days – of silence; and some actual crying. All in the space of four years. In our quest for truth, we managed to turn out a show about depression, death, and the pointlessness of existence (while also in our view being funny and brilliant).

This paragraph for the promotional interview makes me think that this take on Clive must be correct; the referance to depression, specifically. And to be honest it's also a fantastically inspiring bit of background, in its own right. I really hope its not hyperbole, cause I love the idea that they really suffered writing this show, making it convincing, something that truly mattered, if only to them. Arguing, periods of silences, actual tears... people actually giving a fuck about comedy, wanting to produce the best they possibly can, and refusing to settle; all for a little show that was never going to break the big time. I think I might be slightly in love with these two, in my own pathetically nerdy way.

Disclaimer: Kelvin is not actually in love. He just think's they're a bit brilliant. 

[rimbaud]

I really enjoyed tonight's episode; the quick cuts to the Grandad bouncing on the ball were particularly funny.

My favourite moment was when Clive presented her with a spontaneous present, WHICH SHE WAS DELIGHTED WITH.  Also he lost his job, but was quickly able to find another job, yes a character WHO IS GOOD AT HIS JOB.  Neither of these two things have ever happened in a sitcom before in history.

[hummingofevil]

Ha ha. Laughed once at that but sat with huge grin on my face all the way through. Its really funny in a way that I can't quite get. Tonight's episode could quite easily have fallen into the trap of turning the whole thing into a big self-indulgent mess but I think the pace and the writing is just great. Love it.

Oh and so much for the subtlety in dealing with Simon's gayness and Jewishness.

[Jemble Fred]

Finally got round to seeing one of these last night... Amstell's a sharp gagster and the cast are top notch, but the one question I couldn't quite shift out of my brain was "Why isn't this on Radio 4?" I suppose you could say it of a fair few shows, but there just seemed to be no reason for this to be on TV, it didn't add much. Perhaps that's a testament to the quality of the dialogue, perhaps it was just that one episode (Simon Decides He Is Forlorn), and all the others are packed with visual comedy. Perhaps I just don't want to see Amstell's cock nose.

[Mildly Diverting]

Back on form after last week's rather disappointing episode. As hummingofevil said, it's not a gag fest, but it just makes me smile consistently. I even feel sorry for Rebecca Front's character - I'm not quite sure why, probably because she's so honest about wanting to get a rich bloke even if he's a twat. And I know it was pretty obvious, but Simon turning on his dad and completely forgetting his new age theory raised a big chuckle.

[Neil]

And I know it was pretty obvious, but Simon turning on his dad and completely forgetting his new age theory raised a big chuckle.

I thought that was very well handled, because it was more about Simon being like his Dad.  The entire episode revolved around him being controlling and selfish, and showing utter disregard for the rest of the family.  He wanted to help them in the way he'd been helped, but he didn't really care about how much anguish it would cause, nor did he concern himself with whether or not they wanted help.  There's a real vein of selfishness running right through the family, most obviously with Tanya and Liz, the latter of who was once again briefly feigning interest in Simon simply because it would benefit her financially to do so.  The Granda is one of the few genuinely selfless characters, and his handing over of the lever arch file was excellent, and brilliantly timed - having said that, some of his willingness to do things for others is rooted in an intense naivety.  He, like Simon, doesn't stop to consider whether the books will actually be warmly received, or whether they may actually cause the extreme embarrasment you'd expect.  Hutchings is fantastic in this, a really wonderful last performance.  The Granny is selfless, too, always worrying about others, and the constant offering of fruit/food rings very true.

Loved that there were more jokes just lobbed in when a character wasn't even on screen.  Quite a few great lines in this one that caused much laughter for me, mostly towards the start of the show.

"Why can't you just be less judgemental...and more like me?"

"Simon's joined a cult now"  "Doesn't he know we're going out?" 

A lot of lovely little touches, too, such as Liz chuckling at the very mention of Peter Andre's name, and the zip being pulled up, then returning to its natural position once he'd left.  Swimer and Amstell are also doing a great job with the plotting, and I find it hard to predict what's going to happen, and had no idea so many details would come back, except when it became obvious that everyone was going to end up sabotaging everyone else.  I'd forgotten all about the cheese grater thing, so when Clive arrived, and was over protective about Simon in the hall, that was a really touching moment for me.  Another nice touch there as he ruffles Simon's hair, leaving him looking utterly bemused.

I really love the title music for this show, too.  Very well chosen.  Enjoying Grandma's House a lot.

[Neil]

Gonna watch that one again when I get back actually, and start going back through the first four, as I had to squeeze them into a day, and that's not the best way to enjoy something like this.  Flicking through it now, though, I am noticing lots more lovely touches, such as the father's controlling nature manifesting itself with regards telling Granda not to bounce on the ball.  Simon's point about Tanya marrying the same man again was somewhat borne out by Clive doing exactly the same thing when he walked in. 

Oh, and the recurrent belief that they were having sex in a canoe was brilliant. 

I wonder where Adam was.

[mini goatbix]

Oh, and the recurrent belief that they were having sex in a canoe was brilliant. 

And the dad's defensiveness about it, he didn't object when people attacked him for having an affair, but he didn't have sex in a canoe.

[Neil]

And the dad's defensiveness about it, he didn't object when people attacked him for having an affair, but he didn't have sex in a canoe.

That's a very good point, he's open about the affair, but that's the only part of it he seriously objects to having brought up, and it sort of mirrors Liz not objecting to being called a racist.  Yes, definitely got to go back through these, it's a right little gem of a show.

[Ja'moke]

Absolutely splendid episode last night, I genuinely believe each episode has improved on the last one, and you can't ask for much more than that.

There was one scene that had me giggling like a loon, when Simon was harrassing Liz about their tense relationship, not only were Liz's reactions and responses funny, but the constant interjections by the Grandma offering Simon a variety of fruit had me cracking up, her delivery of the line "I'm gonna get you a pear!" when things started to get a bit too tense was perfect, as was Liz's "Now look, you've made me tick the box that says AIDS!"

I also think Clive is becoming more sympathetic as the series progresses, he is still the most broad 'comedy' character, but as more layers are being revealed the more real he comes. His over protectiveness of Simon was actually quite touching.

Finally got round to seeing one of these last night... Amstell's a sharp gagster and the cast are top notch, but the one question I couldn't quite shift out of my brain was "Why isn't this on Radio 4?"

Because then we wouldn't have had that great visual gag of the Grandad bouncing up and down on his new gym ball. :)

[Mildly Diverting]

I'd forgotten all bout the cheese grater thing, so when Clive arrived, and was over protective about Simon in the hall, that was a really touching moment for me.  Another nice touch there as he ruffles Simon's hair, leaving him looking utterly bemused.

The devolopment of Clive has been really well handled. Just when you think he's just some shallow alpha-idiot, he comes out with something to try to either defend Simon or to big him up. And it seems absolutely genuine to me. (Pre-post edit, cos  Ja'moke got in before me). I think that's what I love so much about this series - all the characters seem so real and so fallible. Human beings basically. Neil's deconstruction of Simon sums it up perfectly. He is a shockingly unselfaware person who intuitively believes that he is just the reverse.

And yes, the Dad not giving a toss about the fact that he had an affair, but that it wasn't in a canoe, was a lovely touch.

[Neil]

I think it's the reality of the characters and situations that makes them so fundamentally likeable. It's similar to Seinfeld where they're shits, but you love to spend time with them. Simon is so deeply self-absorbed, that he's never actually given a toss as to whether or not Clive makes his Mum happy. Then it gradually becomes clearer that he actually doesn't. 

[eluc55]

I'm gonna watch it a fourth time tonight before I write up my thoughts. That said:

Odd that the interview with Dan Swimer suggested that they initially struggled identifying plots for the episodes, as I've been so impressed by how cleverly - and densely - plotted every episode's been. So many thematic and comedic call backs, and a real knack for tying together seemingly unrelated moments as the show reaches its climax. Besides the obvious resolutions this week (Simon's anger resurfacing again, his abandonment of the "cults" principles and his Mother regaining interest in Clive), there was that lovely character callback to Liz and her badly timed mentions of money (the deposit remark was pre-empted by her comments about the "hole where my wall used to be"), the thematic tying up of Clive, Simon and his father all being controlling, and the comedic callback to the inappropriote books, again brilliantly delivered by Spiro. Each episode seems so perfectly paced, and structured... if it really was as bad as the interview makes out, they obviously came a hell of a long way. 

EDIT: It's even more impressive when you consider that the episodes are constantly building on each other, and actually unravelling the characters and how we interpret them with each turn. It demands not only repeat viewings, but being watched in order, as its that deconstruction of everything you think you know that makes it so exciting to watch, I think. You need to believe you understand them for the next episode to make you think again, or see them differently. 

[Neil]

Yes, it's slowly revealing more and more in a really skillful way.  I wish I'd been able to watch this at the correct pace, so I had more time for each episode to sink in.  There are wonderful little character traits that seem to keep cropping up, and they tie into the main story of each episode in a subtle, satisfying way.  I love how the Granda has an uncanny knack for odd details, so him asking the Dad if he still had a thing on his key-ring for fixing glasses was just weirdly nice...fleshed out the character in a strange way, without advancing the main plot.  Then there's also his desire to return presents, before he even sees what they are - another very true-to-life character trait, I must say.  That was nice this week - I found myself idly wondering if they'd introduced the excercise ball simply as a way of having somewhere for another character to sit, but then so much started to revolve (so to speak) around it.  I've already mentioned how Clive and the Dad both illustrated their controlling nature by telling him how to use it (did they give contradictory advice, I wonder?), but once the full nature of Simon's controlling nature becomes apparent, it puts a further little spin on him refusing to take back the gift.  It played into the theme of 'Simon knows whats best for you,' yet given how fragile the Granda is, I was terrified he was going to have another spill.

[TheWizard]

It dipped below a million last night – 991,000

[Lookalike Mark Chapman]

That's presumably overnights though, I imagine that will be adjusted up.

[hummingofevil]

Finally got round to seeing one of these last night... Amstell's a sharp gagster and the cast are top notch, but the one question I couldn't quite shift out of my brain was "Why isn't this on Radio 4?" I suppose you could say it of a fair few shows, but there just seemed to be no reason for this to be on TV, it didn't add much. Perhaps that's a testament to the quality of the dialogue, perhaps it was just that one episode (Simon Decides He Is Forlorn), and all the others are packed with visual comedy. Perhaps I just don't want to see Amstell's cock nose.

It was worth being on tele just to watch Grandad bouncing on the aerobics ball.

[hummingofevil]

Because then we wouldn't have had that great visual gag of the Grandad bouncing up and down on his new gym ball. :)

What he said.