Topic: Grandma's House - new Simon Amstell vehicle

[hummingofevil]

The devolopment of Clive has been really well handled. Just when you think he's just some shallow alpha-idiot, he comes out with something to try to either defend Simon or to big him up. And it seems absolutely genuine to me. (Pre-post edit, cos  Ja'moke got in before me). I think that's what I love so much about this series - all the characters seem so real and so fallible. Human beings basically. Neil's deconstruction of Simon sums it up perfectly. He is a shockingly unselfaware person who intuitively believes that he is just the reverse.

And yes, the Dad not giving a toss about the fact that he had an affair, but that it wasn't in a canoe, was a lovely touch.

Wasn't the line something like, "Can I just say... It wasn't in a canoe, it was in a hotel, by a lake, where one of the activities available was canoeing. There was no canoeing involved." Followed by Grandma growling the word "pervert" at him. Very good.

My other favorite bit this week was Simon's rant.

"Its boring to protect wood...      ...this is what I do....I sit at home fucking up my furniture so I don't become you."

The idea that placing a glass cup on a wood surface is an act of pure fucking hate.

[Tiny Poster]

The idea that placing a glass cup on a wood surface is an act of pure fucking hate.

Even better than that was the row over the phone digits.

[DJ One Record]

Finally got round to seeing one of these last night... Amstell's a sharp gagster and the cast are top notch, but the one question I couldn't quite shift out of my brain was "Why isn't this on Radio 4?" I suppose you could say it of a fair few shows, but there just seemed to be no reason for this to be on TV, it didn't add much. Perhaps that's a testament to the quality of the dialogue, perhaps it was just that one episode (Simon Decides He Is Forlorn), and all the others are packed with visual comedy. Perhaps I just don't want to see Amstell's cock nose.

I do sort of know where you're coming from with this, although there were some nice visual bits this week - Grandpa on the gym ball, Amstell's reaction to his mother being pleased with Clive's 3-days-away-a-week job, the handing over of the lever arch file. I don't necessarily think it should be relegated (and I should stress here I mean in terms of audience figures rather than artistic form) to radio, but I do wonder if they could kick the tyres a little harder on occasion with regards to the visual aspects of the show. In many moments it is just pure dialogue, not even much visual acting.

[eluc55]

Okay, seen it several times now (actually five times, but I'm worried I come across as mental admitting that), and I think I've ultimately come to the conclusion that it was the least funny episode overall. The first ten minutes is just brilliant gag after brilliant gag, but the next twenty are far sparser in that respect. That's not to say it's not funny in the second half - its frequently hilarious - but it's certainly not as dense with gags as earlier episodes.

Ultimately though, its still a great episode, with tons going on, and so much to like I simply didn't care that it wasn't as funny. I thought one of the best things were the continuation of a theme that's developing, showing that Simon and Clive actually have more in common than Simon's able to acknowledge. Besides the obvious controlling quality, there's also this theme of dealing with depression, and just as Clive seems to have become oppressively cheery and false to deal with it, now Simon's embracing hurriedly leant, and painfully superficial "positive psychology"... One thing I noticed was that while talking to his mum in the kitchen this week Simon remarks on how many clichés Clive uses, completely oblivious to the fact that he's also been spouting clichés all day. I love that unspoken link between them; a kind of projection of his own self hatred. 

Several nice dramatic moments this week, all brilliantly performed. Obviously the Grandmothers first angry outburst packed a real punch, but I also loved the more understated moment when they first reintroduce Simon's father to the grandfather and his voice trembles saying: "Does Lily know your here? You're not gonna cause any trouble, are you?" In that moment, you can hear real concern in his voice, and as Neil has already said, its a wonderful last performance  by Hutchings.   

So not the funniest episode, or at least not as consistantly funny as past weeks, but yet again, a brilliantly written, performed and constructed half hour. Quite besides the radio, where you'd miss so many great gestures and expressions, I found myself thinking how it would have worked just as well as a short play.

Favourite moments that haven't already been mentioned by someone, then:

"Moisture gets under your lungs, and that's it: chronic diarrhoea, then dementia." - actually Bernie's running obsession with death is one of my favourite little touches in this. Every week its cancer, or car accidents, or dead friends or obituarys...

"Needy, clamping gums you had. You were eating whole apples before you had teeth." - made even funnier by Front's stupidly graphic performance.

The horrified family treating Simon like someone with Amnesia.
"Of course you care. Say something funny about Peaches Geldof."
"What about Peter Andre? Anything?"

SIMON: "What's wrong with you? I've just said an amazing thing!" 
LIZ: "What am I meant to say. You sound like a maniac."

"Now you've given me aids!"

"I feel we need to treat religious people with kindness and love. In the same way we treat a child running around saying "I'm a helicopter.""

"What about the old way of thinking. I wonder what's on television, ooh its my lovely son, Simon.
Not I wonder what my sons saying in my mum's kitchen, oh its a load of shit!"

Everything Samantha Spiro does at the door peering out at Simon's father. In fact she's the reason this has to be on TV, not radio.
Her face does more comedy business than most scripts do in half an hour.  To address DJ's point above, I simply can't understand how you can say there's not much visual acting, when she's such a funny performer in both her expressions and the way she carries herself.

Later, the cut to a wide shot, and in the background the Grandfather just slumped over the ball, hugging it, like a huge baby. Possibly my favourite single moment in the whole episode, and I missed it first time round.
 
"I cant live with him seven days a week. I'll go mad. I'm full of life"
"I said all this weeks ago. These are my words"
"He's so dull in bed"
(Barely audible) "Not my words. Oh christ."

Simon only trying to stop his grandmothers angry rant when she mentions Clive's nice house.

"I could have just done it, if I hadn't worried people might call and think I was an awful twat"

[chocky909]

I'm really enjoying your enjoyment of this series eluc. I've only just caught up with all the episodes and absolutely love them.

[Ja'moke]

"You look like Clive during sex." The facial expressions of both Simon and Liz in reaction to that line were fantastic, and definitely back up what eluc was saying about the visual acting in this show.

I really love Grandma's House, it's a shame that it isn't being raved about elsewhere. I have my fingers crossed that it gets a second series.

[DJ One Record]

I really love Grandma's House, it's a shame that it isn't being raved about elsewhere.

Has the consensus about it not been great elsewhere?

[eluc55]

I'm really enjoying your enjoyment of this series eluc.

It's crazy. I haven't felt this exhilarated, motivated and in awe of comedy since Consolevania 5-6 years ago. It's not just the fact that its written by people who clearly care about comedy as an art, but I think also the fact that they're still young and have an entire career ahead of them; its so unusual to find rising talent that's so promising, and I just want to shake their hands and thank them for giving a fuck.     

[Ja'moke]

Has the consensus about it not been great elsewhere?

Reviews tend to be very mixed from the ones I've read, certainly nobody seems as passionate about it as a few of us do on here.

[dr_christian_troy]

FINALLY catching up with this, and really rather enjoying it. I'm still going through it but will probably join in on the discussion at another time.

By the way, the 'Please gas this House of Cunts' tag, despite my name appearing, was not me. It originated in the Big Brother thread, where it seemed appropriate (in my view), but not here. At all.

[HAYRDRYAH]

Nothing of value to add, but I'm also enjoying this thread, it's alerting me to so many details I don't notice when watching (though I might if I watched it 5 times....) When they finally teach comedy in schools, we (you) should write the study guide for the Grandma's House module.

.....Carry on

[MuteBanana]

"You look like Clive during sex." The facial expressions of both Simon and Liz in reaction to that line were fantastic, and definitely back up what eluc was saying about the visual acting in this show.

I really love Grandma's House, it's a shame that it isn't being raved about elsewhere. I have my fingers crossed that it gets a second series.

I also loved Liz's double take when Tanya stepped in and said the plant was from her. It was blink and you'll miss it snap shot of sibling rivalry because you could see Liz kick herself for not thinking of it first.

And last week she had me doubled over with 'Claybarns'(?), it just got funnier and funnier every time she crowbarred it into the conversation. As well as "Joe Squash" from Clive.

I'm loving this though I do have one criticism, or maybe it's a preference, of the scene between Simon and Clive in the bathroom. I thought Amstell should have done a bit of acting there because Clive was coming across as quite threatening and Simon wasn't fazed by it at all, not even in the car afterwards. Maybe Amstell isn't a big girls blouse like me though.

I also like that because of Simon the family have changed their views of celebrity and talent. It feels real because of that and it just so happens to be funny. Clive rating 'taking the piss out of pop stars' as a fantastic skill. Grandma asking 'name me one famous actor'. Tanya generally obsessing over singing/singers.

And from the boy Adam who always says whats on his mind, which is often the inappropriate thing, it was great when he stunned Simon by telling him to 'Get over it, you only see him once a month' regarding Clive. Nothing worse than being made to look immature by a smut obsessed teenager.

[mini goatbix]

So not the funniest episode, or at least not as consistantly funny as past weeks, but yet again, a brilliantly written, performed and constructed half hour. Quite besides the radio, where you'd miss so many great gestures and expressions, I found myself thinking how it would have worked just as well as a short play.

It seems like a play to me, in fact it seems like Alan Bennett with more characters. The same slow, but acute and detailed observations of character, the way that no characters are bad or good, just flawed and misguided and the way that everybody is playing a role even if they don't actually like it.

[waste of chops]

Anyone mentioned the DVD yet? It's out on the 20th although the extras Amazon have listed look worryingly scant:

    *  The Making of Grandma’s House
    * Accompanying Booklet
    * Audio Commentary - Simon Amstell and his mother watch an episode together for the first time

Just the one commentary? Hopefully that's a mistake. And while it's not exactly a showcase title for high-definition, it's a little disappointing that there doesn't seem to be a Blu-Ray release.

I've nothing to add to the discussion about the show btw, other than to say I love it (the show AND the thread). I haven't watched any eps 5 times yet but I almost certainly will do in future.

[Johnny Yesno]

the way that no characters are bad or good, just flawed and misguided

Yes, that's one of the things I admire about it too. It would have been so easy to just make Clive a monster, for example. Even the father, who was portrayed as this control freak frummer (I learnt a new word!) before he arrived at the house, turned out to be more irritating than anything else. Just as I could imagine that he would want everything to be just so, I could also imagine Simon as a teenager who feels that any house rules are stifling him.

I also wonder if Grandma is as innocent as she comes across too. She looked pretty pleased with herself on the occasions when she was able to put the boot in to Simon's dad. I guess she would, though, if Simon's dad was a total bastard.

There's only one episode left to fill in loads of detail. It seems to me that a second series is needed.

[Neil]

Thanks, Neil and Kelvin, for the discussion on CaB Radio last night, some good points made.

Thanks very much Steve.  I finally got round to making a new podcast, based mostly around the Grandma's House chat that Kelvin (eluc55) and myself had, although it touches a lot on naturalistic comedy in general.
http://comedychat.co.uk/2010/09/11/laugh-naturally/

[Mildly Diverting]

Wonderful stuff! I thought that was a tremendous series. Hopefully, it'll get another run.

[eluc55]

So many thoughts on this episode and how it relates to the series as a whole; a very strange final episode in some ways; need to get my head around it a bit.

My resounding thought throughout, though: much bleaker and more downbeat than I would have ever expected.

Not necessarily a bad thing; its earn't the right to a more serious episode after 5 extremely funny ones, plus I was so invested in the characters by this point its nice to see them all turned over on their heads one last time... but , really found that grim at times.

[hummingofevil]

Not sure about that at all. Its been mentioned here before about how Clive's persona was a front that he used to mask his demons; I expected them to come out in the last episode but I kind of wanted it to be a bit more amusing.... I suppose its credit to the program that they didn't play it for laughs and actually made it really quite grim. It would be interesting to know how close this is to the real families situation and whether this is all part of some cathartic experience but if its anything close then it is quite an uncomfortable watch. Then again I like the fact that Adam was exposed as a nutter... the funniest part of the series for me was the wanking in the pencil case bit... that just made me realise how grim that scenario actually is and if it did happen in real life it would really fuck you up if it happened to you. I suppose it links back into to the original point about the real Simon dealing with his persona on Buzzcocks; he made his name being really quite cruel to people on Buzzcocks and the public lapped it up... maybe now he is teaching us (and himself) a lesson that at times its really not that funny. Maybe.

[eluc55]

Few thoughts I have to get down. Will iron them out once I've watched it a few more times, and got my head around it a bit more. There was a huge amount to take in throughout the episode, even by this show's standards.

Okay. Over-riding theme in that episode; the cyclic nature of the characters. Almost all major characters had regressed to an earlier stage by the end, or perhaps were repeating the same patterns over and over?

Liz and Adam are cycling through schools and have ended up back where he started.
Simon shows signs he's regretting leaving TV and fame. He was even starting to make jokes about pop stars - several over the course of the episode - exactly the sort of thing he was trying to escape on Buzzcocks... Funny seeing that he couldn't get it right yet. He couldn't get a handle on how to construct the joke.
Clive... By the end, we see he's still making the same mistakes that have wrecked his life... and history quite literally repeats itself at the end.
Grandmas the only one who seems able to break the cycle when she recommends that Tanya doesn't marry Clive. She even explicitly states that she shouldn't repeat old mistakes.

Actually on the subject of Clive, he makes perfect sense to me now. Seeing his defences down... and hey presto, its an utterly believable performance, highlighting how stupid I was to misinterpret James Smith's "false" performance as bad acting. 

I'm sure there's more evidence of this cyclic theme. I need to watch it again. Although very clever how its use tied up the characters and storylines explored in the series, while easily leaving it open for another (A sitcom which doesn't reset at the end of an episode, but the end of a series?).

[eluc55]

Ooh, one last thing: that's probably the least flattering portrayal of a celebrity since... well, ever.

Amstell came across as an unrelentingly selfish, manipulative, thoughtless and vain bastard throughout. A true cunt at times; almost nothing likeable about him at all. In fact, his behaviour was probably the aspect I found most uncomfortable, not Clive or the Grandmas looming heart attack.

[Lfbarfe]

They didn't play it for laughs? It was as grim as everyone said, but it never lost sight of the fact that it was comedy. Even Clive's breakdown had me in stitches, and I've been sympathetic to the character since the second episode or so. Also, the things that annoyed me about Amstell's performance were the same things that made me love it by the end. The querulous voice made sense by the end.

[Nik Drou]

It may be purely because it's at the forefront of my mind at the moment, but Clive's apparent response after the Bette Midler concert  ("it did what it said on the tin") is my favourite joke in the whole series.  Just a fantastic bit of writing, there.

[vrailaine]

I thought that was great again, maybe not as funny as other episodes but very little to complain about and some lovely bits (the whole opening of the media division bit ending with "They want me to stand on a mat in front of a door" stands out right now).

Found it odd that they kept the camera behind Clive's back for most of his breakdown scene, focusing on Simon instead, made it feel like his character was a lot less important to the show overall than he was and that we should only be focusing on Simon's reaction... although ending the show with one character ruining his life again may've been a bit too bleak.

[DJ One Record]

I couldn't help but feel there was a line missing during Clive's breakdown bit:


CLIVE: Who are you?!?! WHO ARE YOU?!?!

SIMON: I am a MAN!!!

[variant]

I thought there were loads of great moments in this episode. I loved the opening of the media wing sequence and Adam's "Definitely not wanking" line.

My favourite section however was Grandpa's best man speech rehearsal. Geoffrey Hutchings was particularly great in this scene. If they do do another series it won't be the same without him.

I know Benidorm is not very popular round these parts but I enjoy it and he was great in that too. He'll be sadly missed.

[eluc55]

They didn't play it for laughs? It was as grim as everyone said, but it never lost sight of the fact that it was comedy. Even Clive's breakdown had me in stitches, and I've been sympathetic to the character since the second episode or so. Also, the things that annoyed me about Amstell's performance were the same things that made me love it by the end. The querulous voice made sense by the end.

Fantastic scene that. The first time I saw it, i thought it was horrible to see; quite distressing, albeit brilliant played...

Second viewing had be crackling up; loved the bit with the plastic horse: "clippity clop, clippity clop"... a perfect example of mixing very dark with very silly; the same quality James Smith achieved in his TTOI breakdown.   

And Amstell's performance was interesting, too. That hilarious shot of him being yanked to his feet, his body utterly rigid, like a doll. Then his face throughout, which wasn't exactly funny... and if anything again seemed slightly, I don't know... chilling. Like he was loving the fact that it meant the marriage was doomed, and was happy for Clive to just dig his own grave. Really loved how unpleasant Amstell made himself this episode. There wasn't a glimmer of genuine compassion or remorse; horribly oppurtunistic and manipulative.     

[Ja'moke]

Can only really echo what others have already said, a grim episode, but still packed full of great lines and laugh out loud moments. My particular favourite was this exchange...

Gran: "Whose a sexpest?"
Simon: "Adam's finally raped someone."
Gran: "He hasn't?!"
Liz: "Of course he hasn't, its just...legs!"

That last line was a belter. And as others have mentioned, the bit about opening the media wing was fantastic, "They want me to open a room? They want me to open a door? They want me to stand on a mat in front of a door."

Fingers crossed for a second series.

[JPA]

Gran: "Whose a sexpest?"
Simon: "Adam's finally raped someone."
Gran: "He hasn't?!"
Liz: "Of course he hasn't, its just...legs!"

That built beautifully.

Was it implied with that look that the Grandfather gave that his hospital 'scare' had been a deliberate ploy to postpone the wedding?

[Tiny Poster]

I don't know about that, but he definitely offered to feign sickness before he left to collect the cake and dress.