Football 2016/17 (Manchester or bust?)

[chand]

That old 'too many games nonsense', how many games did Sunderland Boro and Hull play?

You've got me there, magnificent point.

[Mr Brightside]

So you'd rather win a couple of cups than try and challenge for the title and get Champions League football?

No, not at all. That wasn't what I said.

It's hard to see how they can in any way be considered a failure considering the state they were in when Pochettino joined.

They're not a failure at all. That wasn't what I said. I just meant that, eventually, this progression and potential has to result in them actually winning the league or least something. With the Wembley move for next season, that might make things more difficult for them. They don't have a great record there, and we've seen how West Ham struggled with the new stadium issue this year. Ideally, Spurs really do need some silverware sooner rather than later.

[asids]

They're not a failure at all. That wasn't what I said. I just meant that, eventually, this progression and potential has to result in them actually winning the league or least something. With the Wembley move for next season, that might make things more difficult for them. They don't have a great record there, and we've seen how West Ham struggled with the new stadium issue this year. Ideally, Spurs really do need some silverware sooner rather than later.

OK, I slightly misunderstood your point, but aren't Spurs kind of competing for silverware already? They were Chelsea's closest challengers (and probably Leicester's too last season) in the league, they got to the FA Cup semis. It's not like we're talking about Arsenal's near 10 year wait for a trophy, Pochettino's only been there 3 years. We're only in the beginnings of a really strong Spurs side, it's not like Kane, Alli atc are approaching their 30s and they've still not got any silverware.

[imitationleather]

What seems to be overlooked frequently is that 2nd place is Spurs performing way above most expectations. If we'd finished 6th this year no one (including me) would have been surprised, so it's a bit of a stretch to say that Spurs bottled the league this year when for most of our fanbase we were in unchartered territory. I know that's not what people in this thread are saying, but outside of reasonable online discourse it's what I hear over and over and over. It's like people are so used to Spurs being a joke club that unless they are faultlessly winning everything it's very easy to pick holes in what they're doing.

As someone who became a fan when the team were so totally shit that second tier obscurity looked like a realistic prospect, I personally had never expected Spurs to win the league in my lifetime. It would still be a huge shock if they ever did. I'm not basing my enjoyment of the team around what they win, instead I'm loving that they are so endlessly entertaining to watch.

Football.

[greenman]

Just keep your filthy hands off of Zaha, I promise you if you sign him he'll disappear into a cloud of dope smoke ala Chris Armstrong.

[Deanjam]

Moyes gone.

[hewantstolurkatad]

If I was an Arsenal fan, I'd honestly be relieved to not have the Champions League for a year. As miserable as repeatedly fucking up just enough in late winter so as to ensure the season becomes a battle for fourth, that run to the 2nd round or quarter final every year must be tedious as all hell.


The number of games played has more of an impact in Europe than in the league overall. The english league is far too competitive to allow any kind of break at all, that Christmas schedule in particular just destroying teams.
Bayern Munich with that month off in the middle and the ability to just buy everyone else's best players surely have a ridiculous advantage over every other major european team.

[Captain Z]

As a Spurs fan right now I'd happily keep sacrificing the FA and League cups to challenge for the title or have a solid Champions League run. Even though money is tight I think we're still in need of a superstar signing, not only to provide some backup at the front but also send out a message that we're serious. League cups don't bring you that.

From my limited experience I think other fans would say the same. It only seems to be other clubs fans telling us we need to win a trophy, any trophy, soon.

[im barry bethel]

Just keep your filthy hands off of Zaha, I promise you if you sign him he'll disappear into a cloud of dope smoke ala Chris Armstrong.

Daniel Levy in hilarious Zaha/Zaza mixup on deadline day

[BlodwynPig]

Moyes to Spurs and Poch to Watford in the summer

[thugler]

As a Spurs fan right now I'd happily keep sacrificing the FA and League cups to challenge for the title or have a solid Champions League run.

You're not sacrificing them. You just happen to bottle it every time. See also losing a two legged tie to Gent, a team that finished 2nd in the league by this huge margin shouldn't be doing that unless there's something badly wrong (still).

[Squink]

It only seems to be other clubs fans telling us we need to win a trophy, any trophy, soon.

You do, though (assuming you like what you see now and want to retain that). There's no way all these players are staying if there's no trophy won next season. "A solid Champions League run" just won't cut it.

[Captain Z]

You're not sacrificing them. You just happen to bottle it every time.

I accept that were are part of a select group of 735 teams who 'bottled' the FA cup this year.

See also losing a two legged tie to Gent, a team that finished 2nd in the league by this huge margin shouldn't be doing that unless there's something badly wrong (still).

What do you think is "badly wrong" at Spurs?

[Rolf Lundgren]

It's a bit of an inexact science; Josh Harrop who scored yesterday is 21 and only 10 days younger than Anthony Martial, who's already got three and a bit seasons under his belt.

It still blows my mind how young Romelu Lukaku is and how much he's achieved already. There are players like Saido Berahino and Patrick Bamford who I still think of as prospects for the future who might come good and they're both only a few months younger than Lukaku who is currently on 144 career goals.

[asids]

You're not sacrificing them. You just happen to bottle it every time. See also losing a two legged tie to Gent, a team that finished 2nd in the league by this huge margin shouldn't be doing that unless there's something badly wrong (still).

West Ham went out to Astra fucking Giurgiu, twice. Could it perhaps be that neither West Ham or Spurs gave a shit about the competition? Do you think Spurs have the motivation to try and go far in the competition with the carat of CL qualification when they can focus on the league and already get that as well as pushing for the title itself?

[phantom_power]

You're not sacrificing them. You just happen to bottle it every time. See also losing a two legged tie to Gent, a team that finished 2nd in the league by this huge margin shouldn't be doing that unless there's something badly wrong (still).

I can guarantee that whatever team you support, unless it is Chelsea, had a worse season than Spurs

[weekender]

This thread is genuinely a really interesting read at the moment.  I'm a neutral, but please don't hold that against me.  I would like to make some observations about Spurs.

I see them as a side now consistently proving themselves at a high level.  Remember when the top four was pretty much guaranteed to be Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool?  Man City may have broken that up somewhat, but they seem fairly inconsistent and - to my mind - rely too much on a few key players.  To me, it just feels like that - apart from their academy - they're not yet making true inroads into how to develop a successful club.

I feel differently about Spurs with Pochettino - I feel like he's making a real difference, and that difference is a kind of 'build on build' approach - OK, may not have won anything major yet, but I just get a general sense of "our time is coming".  Especially with a relatively young squad who are improving all the time.  As a neutral, I do genuinely want to see the current Spurs side go on to bigger and better things, and I hope they do.  To see a club consistently performing - and getting better - is great to watch.  Leicester was a one-off, and I enjoyed it as such, but if I could watch Spurs go on to conquer Champions League etc it would be great.

But these things take time, and Pochettino knows that.  As did a certain Mr Ferguson. 

Slow and steady may win the marathon, albeit not for a couple of years.

[imitationleather]

I thought when people pointed to the West Ham game as an example of Spurs fucking up it was to wind up Spurs fans, not because they genuinely thought that was any kind of turning point in the season. We won 12 out of the last 13 games (an amazing record for anyone), if we'd won the West Ham game it would have been 13 out of 13 and yet we'd still have finished four points behind Chelsea. So the West Ham game didn't lead to a slump or anything, the team went straight back to winning after and remained unbeaten for the rest of the season. Spurs of old would have probably reacted differently to the West Ham loss. Even last season we easily would have then not won again for the rest of the campaign. I think it's a sign the squad is becoming psychologically stronger under Pochettino. It also didn't have any real effect on their chances of winning the league, which were extremely slim all the way from December. I still let a bit of myself believe it might happen, because that's part of the fun of being up at the top of the table. However, expecting a team to win thirteen games on the bounce and berating them for not quite doing that just seems unrealistic to me. Every team has a ropey result every now and again, it's the nature of the sport.

[DrGreggles]

I think it's a backhanded compliment, mainly from fans of teams who have been traditionally finishing higher than you in recent times.

I remember when Liverpool 'bottled' the league 3 years ago.
In February the title race was a 3 way battle between Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. Liverpool took (I think) 40 points out of the next 45, but apparently 'bottled it' by finishing 2nd in a 3 horse race they were even in!

If you asked me right now who I think will win the league next season, I'll say Spurs.
Especially once Sissoko hits top form!

[Utter Shit]

I thought when people pointed to the West Ham game as an example of Spurs fucking up it was to wind up Spurs fans, not because they genuinely thought that was any kind of turning point in the season. We won 12 out of the last 13 games (an amazing record for anyone), if we'd won the West Ham game it would have been 13 out of 13 and yet we'd still have finished four points behind Chelsea. So the West Ham game didn't lead to a slump or anything, the team went straight back to winning after and remained unbeaten for the rest of the season. Spurs of old would have probably reacted differently to the West Ham loss. Even last season we easily would have then not won again for the rest of the campaign. I think it's a sign the squad is becoming psychologically stronger under Pochettino. It also didn't have any real effect on their chances of winning the league, which were extremely slim all the way from December. I still let a bit of myself believe it might happen, because that's part of the fun of being up at the top of the table. However, expecting a team to win thirteen games on the bounce and berating them for not quite doing that just seems unrealistic to me. Every team has a ropey result every now and again, it's the nature of the sport.

I assumed thugler was just on the wind up. We should by rights be fifth or sixth, won 12 of our last 13 games and were unfortunate to lose out to a superbly consistent Chelsea side.  The idea that we are underachieving bottlers because we had one bad game at West Ham and didn't care about the Europa is not even worth arguing against.

[greenman]

Really the last couple of seasons have been a case of Spurs putting late pressure on teams that looked clear favourites to win the league, not really a case for bottling it.

I'd agree it does feel like a solid base is being built as perhaps wasn't at Man City even with there greater success, personally I doubt they'll loose any big names this summer, the real test will probably be can they sign any.

There is definitely a Fergerson like combative toughness about them now to go with the flare that I don't remember seeing previously in my time paying attension to the game(so late 80's onwards).

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It still blows my mind how young Romelu Lukaku is and how much he's achieved already. There are players like Saido Berahino and Patrick Bamford who I still think of as prospects for the future who might come good and they're both only a few months younger than Lukaku who is currently on 144 career goals.

Precisely, it's not like Lukaku is a Fowler/Owen type who will be scrap at 26 either. Great physique, technique amd game awareness only getting better, inevitably going to a club where he will get better service too.

[Deanjam]

Allardyce gone.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The idea that we are underachieving bottlers because we had one bad game at West Ham and didn't care about the Europa is not even worth arguing against

That's not the idea though is it. Winning loads of games is good, but bottling is about performance at crucial moments.

Two seasons running Spurs had one game where it was vital to win to remain in the title race and both years didn't do it. We'll never know if the pressure created through winning would have unsettled Leicester/Chelsea. Opportunities to win titles rarely come along for Spurs so it will always attract the bottle tag where it's a close race and they don't manage it.

I think you're taking the tag too seriously as well. Everyone is aware Spurs are a really good side.

[phantom_power]

As has been stated they didn't bottle it. They lost a match after winning a crap-load in a row. I think even Spurs fans would admit they aren't good enough to win every game going. Did Chelsea bottle it losing to Palace to even give Spurs a chance? Or again did the just lose a game or two after a phenomenal run of winning? If they do the same thing for the next few years (like Arsenal's seeming rinse and repeat seasons) then maybe you could call it bottling

[Squink]

If they do the same thing for the next few years (like Arsenal's seeming rinse and repeat seasons) then maybe you could call it bottling

Fantastically vague definition of bottling it there. One man's bottling it is another man's not bottling it. We might just have to move on from the great bottling it wars as no one will ever agree on what it even means. Until next season, of course.

[phantom_power]

That's sort of what I meant

[sprocket]

Allardyce gone.

No doubt just about to be unveiled as Luis Enrique's successor at Barcelona.

[phantom_power]

Holy shitsnacks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40021844

[asids]

Holy shitsnacks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40021844

He's only played 20 minutes of senior football or something like that. I'd say it's ridiculous but I'm not that shocked with the way transfer fees are going in all honesty.

I do honestly wonder when the whole thing is going to collapse. There's always inflation and such but transfer fees seem to have increased exponentially since about 2011 or so, probably triggered by when Real signed Kaka and Ronaldo in the summer of 2009 and then a couple of years later you had Torres for £50m and then Liverpool thought it would be a good idea to spunk £35m on Andy Carroll to replace him.