MP3 Players and DAPs

[Roy*Mallard]

Hello all. Around a year or so ago, there was a thread discussing which posters were replacing their iPod classics with what. At that time, i bought the Sony A15, which was pretty damn good, but all it did was whet my appetite for something approaching as close to my wants and needs in an MP3 player/DAP as possible. It's become something of an expensive hobby.

I found a couple of places close to where i live which sell new and 2nd hand players and have spent a small fortune buying different models. I've got 17 MP3 players/DAPs now - pathetic isn't it?

A big favourite right now is Fiio, a Chinese company which has produced some beautiful, both in appearance and sound, players. I've got 5 of their models (X1, X3, X3 2nd Gen, X5 and M3) and i love them all, despite the greatest battery life being 10-12 hours. However, it hasn't stopped there. I bought a beautifully 'B' conditioned 160 GB iPod classic from CEX in Chester when i was back there on holiday at the end of last year. However, as i have been living in Hong Kong for the last 10+ years, where there is thankfully no ridiculous France-inspired volume limit bollocks, the level of volume i was receiving from this classic was not enough for my needs. 

Also purchased a Cowon X9, which is an interesting player, as well as 3 iPod Nano 3rd gens (the short, fat buggers - absolutely love these). However, although i've got some belters, i still haven't found something perfect for my needs.

What are my needs and expectations from a new player? Well, handsome battery life (20+ hours), ability to remember playback position (i have a big collection of radio comedy/audio books and i would love to find a player, similar to iPods past, where you can stop listening to something and go and play another track and it will save the position of where you are up to to come back to anytime), firm build, similar audio quality to Fiio players, plays FLAC and WAV etc. Is there anything out there which meets each and every one of those needs? I've no need for bluetooth, internet access, apps etc, just a standard music player.

What about all of those cheaper players you see on Amazon. The AGPtEK players and the like? Always interested in trying those, despite knowing that they'll probably be nowhere near to what i really want. Also, what about Sandisk players? A lot of people seem to like these, but would my non-volume restricted ears be offended by a weak volume level?

What are some of your favourite MP3 players?   

[Bazooka]

I swore by Creative as the best MP3 makers for a decade, and they were but alas they don't make them any more. Phones killed the market, despite  all phones being horrible mp3 players.

But anyway the best MP3 player on the market is the Sony Walkman, tiny,durable,good sound quality and hard to press the wrong button when in your pocket.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sony+walkman&client=ms-android-motorola&sa=X&biw=360&bih=512&tbs=vw:l,ss:9&tbm=shop&prmd=sinv&srpd=15082428492119011137&prds=epd:9817261422032172414,paur:ClkAsKraX8IPdo9e5puORZihcM5Tgf-dfELxjD3jd0bzSRnlT5YcrYophyvehfOWrwYKXmL8HAZiPnsXcTb5JR-boUz89Ys79d5lch-MarO84MS5_Rwy1Al-axIZAFPVH72uMfr3iXHgFVFKm251xoF5dWFIlg,cdl:1,cid:4993754574398356675&ved=0ahUKEwiA6cqJqoDQAhUpI8AKHc94B3UQgTYI5gQ

[Dropshadow]

Though a lot of people seem to like the Sansa Clip+ I had nothing but trouble with it and wouldn't recommend it. Another one to avoid is the Kubik Evo. Horrible operating system; clunky as hell. There's nothing wrong with the sound quality as such with these items, it's all in the hardware and OS I think. And don't worry about the volume, either - it's loud enough for my tastes and I listen using headphones inserted into protective earmufflers while using powertools with no problems. Good thing about those two is they're cheap, but I'm going to have to re-think that strategy. I'm afraid of breaking expensive ones, y'see. Sony Walkman here I come, probably.

[Howj Begg]

I have the Fiio X5 and M3, and they are great. The X5 is playing up after only two years however, so Im looking at getting an X5 2nd gen. It's apparently smaller and lighter, and has built in headphone amp, so will be much easier to carry around. Honestly, the M3 is ideal for that... but the sound quality aint as good (not that that makes much difference on the tube) and crucially it only holds 64gb microsd whereas one of the main reasons I love the X5 is it can carry 256gb with two microsds. Love listening to almost every genre of my music collection on shuffle.

The new Fiio X1 2nd gen looks tasty as well, with bluetooth for headphones, which will be ideal for me, and lead to less tortuous struggling with wires from my bag. Undoubtedly problems there with sound and reception I shouldn't wonder. Still for 100 squid might be worth a try.

[Bhazor]

At around 80 bucks the Walkman N range comes with audio quality that trumps multimedia players 5 times its price. Its what happens when you focus on doing one thing really well I suppose. Not only that but the bundled in headphones are exceptional too for the price.

[MojoJojo]

Phones killed the market, despite  all phones being horrible mp3 players.

I can't imagine I'm going to switch, but could you elaborate on this a bit? The only argument I've heard, really, is battery life, which really isn't true anymore - if you have a smartphone, you're going to be charging it everyday, and four hours of music playing doesn't make much difference.

ability to remember playback position (i have a big collection of radio comedy/audio books and i would love to find a player, similar to iPods past, where you can stop listening to something and go and play another track and it will save the position of where you are up to to come back to anytime),

arrrghh, yes. Very annoying - google play doesn't do it, not sure about audible. BBC app does remember though.

[Bazooka]

I can't imagine I'm going to switch, but could you elaborate on this a bit? The only argument I've heard, really, is battery life, which really isn't true anymore - if you have a smartphone, you're going to be charging it everyday, and four hours of music playing doesn't make much difference.

arrrghh, yes. Very annoying - google play doesn't do it, not sure about audible. BBC app does remember though.

Firstly size, you are never going to have a smart phone that isn't at least 60% bigger in size than a modern MP3 player.

A phone will also have less memory available purely for music, yeah sure you can buy a memory upgrade but a typical smart phone will get filled up with apps,photo's,videos etc. An MP3 player will also have good battery life,and that usage will soley be used for music playing only. 

The biggest inconvenience of using a phone is functionality,  you can't skip,pause,shuffle tracks without taking it out of your pocket, otherwise you end up calling someone and you still have to swipe the screen before that anyway.  Analogue controls will always be superior for playing, forwarding,pausing media.

[anant]

I got this recently and it's a marvel with rockbox installed - absolute bargain for 76 quid. No internal storage but it has 2 micro-sd slots - so you can stick 256gb on it. I've read it sounds better than those much more expensive Sony ones, just not as flashy - no album art etc
https://www.amazon.co.uk/XDUOO%C2%AE-JZ4760B-Lossless-Supports-Formats-Black/dp/B017K9XVX6

[Shit Good Nose]

Most of the no-name Chinese hi-res players are surprisingly good - China seems to have come out of nowhere in the last few years making no frills no nonsense products which just work, are reasonably well built, and are good value for money.

Fiio are pretty good, but the last time I seriously looked into and demoed them they were blighted by having file limits, which is a ridiculous thing to impose on an electronic device in this day and age, especially when one of its major selling points was having future proof memory card capability up to 2TB.  They may have resolved that issue since, though.

The Sony Walkmans sound amazing, but the Sony software is shit for cunts, and some of the restrictions built into the player are pretty frustrating if you like to play about with settings.

iPod - just no.

In general affordable terms I would look no further than Sansa and Cowon - both sound brilliant and, once you get over their respective firmware annoyances (which, in my opinion, are never anywhere near as bad as most people say) they are a joy to use.

iBasso and Colorfly are pretty good and solidly built.

As someone who prefers a warmer, rather than reference level, audio, one of my favourite sounding players of recent years has been the Calyx M.  However it comes with a myriad of frustrations that they don't appear to have done anything about, which more than off-set the pleasure of listening to it.

Right at the top of the high-res scale, and rightly considered as the industry leader, is iRiver's Astell & Kern range of players, which go from a little £300 "entry level" player, right up to a £3000 beast which is about as good as portable audio technology gets.  At a price, obviously.  It's a shame that so many people have focused entirely on the price of AK players - yes, they are expensive, but with good reason - whilst completely ignoring the fact that there is nothing else out there that comes even close in terms of audio quality (unless you consider the Altmann Tera WAV only player which, for £800, has capacity for about 5 songs with no expansion).  I have an AK240 (I didn't pay full whack for it) and it is an amazing piece of kit.


And I'm with Bazooka on phones as audio players.  If you're a very casual listener who has the same 500 songs that you've had for 10 years and are happy to listen to them without making any changes, then great - get a phone and go for your life.  But any self respecting muso needs a dedicated audio player.

[thugler]

one of its major selling points was having future proof memory card capability up to 2TB.  They may have resolved that issue since, though.

Which of their players is capable of this?

I'm not bothered about hi-res audio particularly, but having a player with that sort of beastly capacity (or even a bit higher) would be very useful for carrying my whole collection, or the majority of it.

[Shit Good Nose]

Which of their players is capable of this?

If memory serves all of their players have built-in capabilities up to 2tb (although they only advertise the capacity as being what the then current capacity cards were), with the only limits being the current capacity of memory cards.  A 2tb micro SD might seem impossible now, and the main memory card manufacturers may even say it's impossible, but not so long ago Sandisk themselves, in a Gadget Show feature about memory cards, said that the largest capacity micro SD card possible was 64gb.  We're now on 256.

But, like you, I have a massive music collection that I like to have on me so I can listen to what I want, when I want.  So I've just ignored Fiio, basically, because of the limits.  Fiio seemed to be working on the basis that people who buy their players are only going to have FLAC or WAV files and would never have more than a few thousand songs.  Whereas most other manufacturers were a bit more sensible and thought that there may be some people with large music collections as well, with different bit rates and audio formats.  I have tens of thousands of songs on my player.

[Roy*Mallard]

I think the file limit thing may have been kicked out now, certainly on Fiio's X1 (1st Gen), X3 (2nd Gen) and X5 (1st and 2nd Gen). However, you can view ALL files you have on each and every device via the 'file view' method, so its not a big deal, really.

[Shit Good Nose]

I think the file limit thing may have been kicked out now, certainly on Fiio's X1 (1st Gen), X3 (2nd Gen) and X5 (1st and 2nd Gen). However, you can view ALL files you have on each and every device via the 'file view' method, so its not a big deal, really.

That's good to hear, however with the first generation X3 it would not recognise or play any files that exceeded the file limit.  I assume that's why they did a second generation one.

[ASFTSN]

No-one else with a Fiio M3 bothered by

a)  An apparent bug always queuing track 10 after track 1 when in album mode.  Doesn't happen in folder mode.
b) No way to re-order the folders on the player - they are stuck in the order you uploaded them
c)  No gapless playback
d)  A short (couple milliseconds) fade-in/fade-out on every track, even when fade-in/out is turned off?

All the above is with mp3 files, which are all I use.  I quite like the sound and interface of this little player, it just seems like it's a bit rushed out.  I wouldn't have changed from the Sansa SanDisk Clip+ (the best electronic device I've ever owned) but they've discontinued the bastard.  Got a Clip Jam and it bricked on day 1, piece of shite.

Fiio seem to have promised updates to the firmware at some indeterminate point in the future so here's hoping.

[ASFTSN]

Also I found out that the Fiio M3 doesn't seem to have any Rockbox capability after I'd ordered it - never got round to trying it on either of my Sansa Clip+'s.  D'oh.

[Roy*Mallard]

No-one else with a Fiio M3 bothered by

a)  An apparent bug always queuing track 10 after track 1 when in album mode.  Doesn't happen in folder mode.
b) No way to re-order the folders on the player - they are stuck in the order you uploaded them
c)  No gapless playback
d)  A short (couple milliseconds) fade-in/fade-out on every track, even when fade-in/out is turned off?

All the above is with mp3 files, which are all I use.  I quite like the sound and interface of this little player, it just seems like it's a bit rushed out.  I wouldn't have changed from the Sansa SanDisk Clip+ (the best electronic device I've ever owned) but they've discontinued the bastard.  Got a Clip Jam and it bricked on day 1, piece of shite.

Fiio seem to have promised updates to the firmware at some indeterminate point in the future so here's hoping.

a. Yeah - annoying - that's why i only use folder mode.
b. Go to https://techmadeplain.com/2014/how-to-sort-music-flash-drive-car-stereo/ and download the zip file - this will help you organise the folders you have stored on the player - just the main menu (in my case, artists). There may be a feature where you can organise folders within folders, but i'm still relatively new to it.
c. Mine seems ok.
d. Hmm. Will check mine and get back to you.

As  for rockbox, i don't know-  never used it.

Yes, Fiio have been promising a new firmware upgrade for a while now.  I really hope they come through with it, as i really like my M3 - very decent amount of storage for a small player, great sound and can play a huge amounts of formats.

[Roy*Mallard]

That's good to hear, however with the first generation X3 it would not recognise or play any files that exceeded the file limit.  I assume that's why they did a second generation one.

Really? Mine seems ok. Maybe they have updated the firmware since?

[AsparagusTrevor]

Why does it seem music software programmers can't make creating on-the-fly playlists anything other than a ball-ache? I've had a few dedicated players over the years (I just use my phone now) but it's always something they can't seem to get right.

My previous phone, the HTC One mate, had its own music player which had the best playlist creation I've even used. You would select the option to make a playlist, then you could browse your library freely and put a tick next to the tracks you wanted on the list, then save. I even sideloaded HTC's music app onto my new phone.

[ASFTSN]

a. Yeah - annoying - that's why i only use folder mode.
b. Go to https://techmadeplain.com/2014/how-to-sort-music-flash-drive-car-stereo/ and download the zip file - this will help you organise the folders you have stored on the player - just the main menu (in my case, artists). There may be a feature where you can organise folders within folders, but i'm still relatively new to it.
c. Mine seems ok.
d. Hmm. Will check mine and get back to you.

As  for rockbox, i don't know-  never used it.

Yes, Fiio have been promising a new firmware upgrade for a while now.  I really hope they come through with it, as i really like my M3 - very decent amount of storage for a small player, great sound and can play a huge amounts of formats.

a - Sort of more than annoying for a finished product!  I wonder how this even slipped through? 
b - Nice one!  Thanks very much, works perfectly.
c - Really?  Every long form live/jazz/psych album broken up into tracks has got gaps in between those tracks.  Admittely haven't tried too many but it's got to be at least 4-5 albums I've tried it on.
d - Only really bothers me on certain tracks - I suppose I could edit my mp3s by adding extra silence at the beginning/ends, but really, life's too short!

[ASFTSN]

Just thought of another thing I wish the M3 had borrowed from the Sandisk players - a built in Podcasts folder that automatically retains the last position you left each track at.  You could just leave a podcast and go and listen to something else and have it auto-bookmarked for your return.  So handy.

[Shit Good Nose]

Really? Mine seems ok. Maybe they have updated the firmware since?

Either that, or you haven't reached the file limit...

But yes, it was identified by testers and early purchasers as one of the major problems with it, but Fiio claimed that it was a problem they couldn't do anything about without basically completely rebuilding the firmware.  I kept an eye on developments for the best part of 2 years, but nothing doing and Fiio pretty much ignored it.  At which point it dropped out of my list of possible purchases.


Also, I'd just like to add that true gapless in anything other than FLAC or mp3 does still seem to present a problem for most manufacturers.  Even Astell & Kern haven't got it quite right.

[Cuntbeaks]

I had my finger on the Buy It Now trigger about to fire a Fiio X3ii straight into my letterbox.  I waited,  consulted The Internet a bit longer and reloaded with a Cowon Pleneu D. 

A pricier,  but hopefully ive made the correct choice in the long term.  No DSD playback,  but as i dont have a single DSD file,  im not that fussed.

Does anyone have any experience of it?

[MojoJojo]

This is interesting.

Firstly size, you are never going to have a smart phone that isn't at least 60% bigger in size than a modern MP3 player.

That doesn't work. Unless you're arguing for a music player instead of a smartphone.

A phone will also have less memory available purely for music, yeah sure you can buy a memory upgrade but a typical smart phone will get filled up with apps,photo's,videos etc. An MP3 player will also have good battery life,and that usage will soley be used for music playing only.

Hmmm, phone with smart card, not much difference. Battery - you're going to be charging it daily anyway. And playing music doesn't use it much it.

The biggest inconvenience of using a phone is functionality,  you can't skip,pause,shuffle tracks without taking it out of your pocket, otherwise you end up calling someone and you still have to swipe the screen before that anyway.  Analogue controls will always be superior for playing, forwarding,pausing media.

Have to admit you have a point here. I've gone the other way, control it through my watch, and considering going for voice control. But still... I think it's mostly love of your music player which is the problem.

[ASFTSN]

The idea of receiving a phone call in the middle of one of my self imposed audio-hermitage walks across this shithole city is enough for me to avoid the idea of ever getting a phone to play my music on.

[Shit Good Nose]

I had my finger on the Buy It Now trigger about to fire a Fiio X3ii straight into my letterbox.  I waited,  consulted The Internet a bit longer and reloaded with a Cowon Pleneu D. 

A pricier,  but hopefully ive made the correct choice in the long term.  No DSD playback,  but as i dont have a single DSD file,  im not that fussed.

Does anyone have any experience of it?

Cowon are always reliably excellent players, and have historically been the best sounding on the market with the best EQ facility.

I've always owned Cowon players, and the only reason I didn't this time and went for the Astell & Kern AK240 instead was just the capacity of the then-available Cowon - 64gb on board with 1 micro SD slot, compared with the AK240's 256gb on board with micro SD.

The only problem with Cowons, and it's always been a problem, is that their firmware can be a little bit counter-intuitive, even frustrating, paritcularly if you've gone to it from an iPoo or Sansa.  But you soon get used to it.

You'll be pleased with it.

[hewantstolurkatad]

I've two broken sansa clip zips, the plan is to somehow put the two together when my current player breaks.
Recently bought a case thing for my current one because I can't afford to be dropping the fucker on bathroom floors the whole time anymore.


I dunno why there's a market for high end mp3 players the size of smartphones but seemingly no market for anything but total garbage smaller ones (as evidenced by the new sansas). When it's as big an awkward to take out of your pocket as your phone, just load the music on your phone.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

The idea of receiving a phone call in the middle of one of my self imposed audio-hermitage walks across this shithole city is enough for me to avoid the idea of ever getting a phone to play my music on.

You could switch the phone to aeroplane mode.

Then you could fly away.

[hewantstolurkatad]

There's an 8gb sansa clip plus on CEX for 28 pound right now. They go on ebay for anywhere between 35 and 45 now.


I'd buy it myself if I had the money, but I don't need it RIGHT NOW so maybe someone here wants it?

[Roy*Mallard]

What's the volume like on Sansas? Is it restricted like a lot of Euro-based players?

[Spiteface]

Looking at threads like this for potential new players when my iPod classic gives up the ghost (already had it repaired once). Stupid decision to discontinue the classic. Even a higher-capacity Nano, like, 64GB or something would be alright, or one you could stick SD cards into. But no, so fuck Apple.

Can't be having a phone to play music on. Main reason being I use my iPod while at work. Where I work, security is a thing. Can't have a phone or anything with a camera on it in the office. The iPod classic is/was one of the only iPods that I could use. Having actual buttons is a definite plus, too. Hate touchscreens.

I have a Sony walkman thing, the one with a micro SD card slot which will take up to 128GB. Would be PERFECT except for no gapless playback (have quite a few live recordings I like, not a total dealbreaker though) and the weird volume restrictions - it will randomly knock the volume down to half way, which is SUPER QUIET (i.e. fucking useless on a bus), after a while with a warning to "check volume levels" - so it's a spare right now.