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March 29, 2024, 01:06:27 AM

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Better Call Saul - Season 3

Started by NoSleep, November 22, 2016, 01:15:12 PM

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Squink

Hopefully Giancarlo Esposito can rescue this show. The last season was very poor. I'm not sure the character of Jimmy/Saul works as a lead. Excellent as a bit part in Breaking Bad, but there hasn't been much here to suggest that it's worthy of something beyond that.

jobotic


Mister Six

Chalk me up as another season two grump. I really didn't like the bloody guest appearances from the Cartel lot, as it felt more like fanservice rather than actual organic plotting.

I was also frustrated by Jimmy wheeling around in circles for much of the season to no great end, especially when the season started with him going back on his climactic decision from the end of season one. It seemed pretty obvious that they are leaning on Mike's descent into criminality to provide some sense of narrative progression too.

That said, I'm impressed by how well it stands up as a self-contained crime drama, and that's why I suspect Gus will have to play a larger, not smaller, role in this season - he's got to be the backbone for Mike's (and then, through him, Jimmy's) immersion in the criminal world. And having him as a bit part wouldn't make sense.

Unless they have something smarter planned out, of course. But I'm less confident about assuming that now than I was two years ago.

Serge

Yeah, alright, I broke down and watched it this morning. So much for patience.

I think most people who didn't like series 2 and going to hate this episode.

NoSleep

I'm glad about that because I like the way this series is unfolding. I prefer it to Breaking Bad and don't need the constant referencing to that to enjoy the tensions that have been slowly building.
Can't see how Gus is going to make a major entrance into the show, given how shadowy a figure he was in Breaking Bad, only revealing himself after much consideration (and otherwise regarded as a pillar of society; contributing to the law enforcement, etc). What we've seen of Mike, it's fairly clear he makes a good footsoldier but doesn't have what's required to be an officer.
I assume what we're seeing is years after the assassination of Gus' original partner and that he's no friend to Hector, but surely it makes more sense for Mike to be contacted by an underling and nothing more?

Serge

Yeah, I think (possibly because of the advertising for the series, which has featured Gus prominently), people are expecting him to be there right in episode one. I remember reading an interview with Vince Gilligan that said that he might not be in the series as much as some people are hoping, but then a friend put a link to this more recent interview, which does make me think that they're still adhering to the 'Breaking Bad' method of not having a masterplan for the series and letting the writing take it where they like. Which I'm all for!

Next week's episode to be directed by Gilligan again - if it's as good as this weeks, I'll be very happy.

selectivememory

I really liked everything in the episode involving Mike. He's such a compelling character that I enjoy just watching him slowly and methodically going about his business, even if on paper all that stuff might sound potentially quite boring.

To be honest though, I think they need to make something happen with the Chuck/Jimmy/Kim storyline very soon. And the sooner Jimmy and Mike's stories intersect again, the better. There's just something about knowing that it's all going to blow up in Kim's face soon that makes it almost intolerable for me to watch. I just wish they'd get it over with!

Quote from: NoSleep on April 11, 2017, 11:51:48 AM
I assume what we're seeing is years after the assassination of Gus' original partner and that he's no friend to Hector, but surely it makes more sense for Mike to be contacted by an underling and nothing more?

Maybe, but it looks like Mike is going to force a meeting with Fring if he can.

Also, this is a Spoiler, but in a Netflix email I got this morning, it said:
Spoiler alert
"With trouble closing in from all sides, Jimmy meets the mysterious Gustavo Fring and stumbles on a world of intriguing new possibilites."
[close]
. Which suggests
Spoiler alert
Gus might have quite a large involvement in this season.
[close]

Serge

I would happily watch an entire series of Mike methodically dismantling things and looking pissed off. How did Jonathan Banks have to wait this long for a role this good?

Was intrigued by the pre-title flashforward to present day 'Gene' - wonder if we're going to get more of them this season or if they'll stick to their pattern of just one at the beginning of the series? Would hate to wait another year to find out what happens after that.

Puce Moment

I enjoyed this episode immensely. It's simmering away nicely, and I love the amount of time they spend on sections like Mike's dismantling of the car without once explaining what was happening. It's so nice to have drama almost completely lacking exposition.

More Mike.


mothman

It's true, watching Mike go methodically, stoically about his business is an utter joy. Yes, Mike is an underling, but he demonstrated a lot of autonomy throughout both shows.

Something really needs to happen in the A plot soon. I'm not interested in Chuck anymore - had to even look up his name half an hour after watching this episode - and the aura of doomed inevitability suffusing Kim's storyline now likewise leaves me finding it hard to care. They need to get on with it. Jimmy needs to stop being a senior lawyer and start being a criminal one.

Mobius

Yeah the Mike stuff was really good. The Jimmy/Chuck/Kim stuff is just boring... and now they've brought back that soldier who let them into the army base.... who cares.

Puce Moment

The glacial pacing is part of its appeal, but accumulatively this is starting to feel somewhat drawn out, although I get the feeling things will escalate quickly by the end of next week.

Rev

Quote from: Serge on April 11, 2017, 11:39:57 AM
I think most people who didn't like series 2 and going to hate this episode.

The problem with series 2 was that there was a panic about it.  It was a series that had been produced because the scheduled time for it had come around, but it was a placeholder while the real action took place in meeting rooms at the network's offices.  Making a splash with a first series is easy enough, but if you have a fixed timeline to work with, you have to be sure how far along you are.  I don't think they had an idea about how long this thing would run last time, so couldn't do anything too major until that was decided.  It'd have been fine if they could have masked that uncertainty, but so much of the second series gives it away.

I don't get that sense from this episode.  In itself it doesn't move things along too much, but there's a certainty to it.  They're clearly confident in the story they're telling again, so can portion it out properly.

I'm guessing that Ernesto has just become Chekhov's gun, but that whole scene was great:  he heard such a little snippet he probably wouldn't have been able to identify the voice, and certainly not the subject.  Chuck has to go nuts and flag up that it's valuable information though, because Chuck's a prick.

Mike's business was great, and although they're in no way similar I kept thinking of the silent(ish) episode of the Prisoner.  Fring is presumably up where he's heading, but I'm not at all arsed about that guy coming back.  He was always a plot element to move around the board, but never an interesting character.

3/10

Quote from: Rev on April 12, 2017, 02:07:27 AM
The problem with series 2 was that there was a panic about it.  It was a series that had been produced because the scheduled time for it had come around, but it was a placeholder while the real action took place in meeting rooms at the network's offices.  Making a splash with a first series is easy enough, but if you have a fixed timeline to work with, you have to be sure how far along you are.  I don't think they had an idea about how long this thing would run last time, so couldn't do anything too major until that was decided.  It'd have been fine if they could have masked that uncertainty, but so much of the second series gives it away.

I don't get that sense from this episode.  In itself it doesn't move things along too much, but there's a certainty to it.  They're clearly confident in the story they're telling again, so can portion it out properly.

I'm guessing that Ernesto has just become Chekhov's gun, but that whole scene was great:  he heard such a little snippet he probably wouldn't have been able to identify the voice, and certainly not the subject.  Chuck has to go nuts and flag up that it's valuable information though, because Chuck's a prick.

Mike's business was great, and although they're in no way similar I kept thinking of the silent(ish) episode of the Prisoner.  Fring is presumably up where he's heading, but I'm not at all arsed about that guy coming back.  He was always a plot element to move around the board, but never an interesting character.

3/10

Chuck did all that song and dance on purpose surely? Plan being to get Jimmy to break in and get the tape maybe?

Viero_Berlotti

#44
Quote from: funtimefrankie on April 12, 2017, 02:20:39 AM
Chuck did all that song and dance on purpose surely? Plan being to get Jimmy to break in and get the tape maybe?

Yes, that's what I thought. Chuck intentionally allowed Ernesto to 'accidentally' hear a snippet of the tape as part of his overall plan to get back at Jimmy.

I don't think I'm as down on the Chuck storyline as others seem to be. Michael McKean is just such a great actor anything that strings out his screen time a bit more is welcome to me.

Paaaaul

Quote from: Serge on April 11, 2017, 10:29:23 PM
I would happily watch an entire series of Mike methodically dismantling things and looking pissed off. How did Jonathan Banks have to wait this long for a role this good?

I came into this thread to say exactly this, and now I don't have to.

imitationleather

I was quite tired when I watched this but it seemed just as dull as season 2. They need to get Chuck out of this programme asap (hopefully killed off). He should have been written out in season 2. I can't take another season of him just being a cunt to Jimmy. The other storyline with Kim: Get that shit finished in the next couple of episodes too, please. If this shapes up to be another season of Jimmy almost becoming Saul but not quite I'm jacking it in.

Still, Fargo tonight. Fingers crossed with that one.

MuteBanana

I was confused by the scene where Mike returns home from the scrapyard. It looked like he was getting dropped off as a car takes off. But he then walks right over to another car and removes the petrol cap. Uh? Took me a moment to realise it was his car.

When that man stood up in the waiting room I was expecting it to be the photo booth shoplifter.

Serge

Quote from: Puce Moment on April 12, 2017, 01:51:26 AM
The glacial pacing is part of its appeal, but accumulatively this is starting to feel somewhat drawn out, although I get the feeling things will escalate quickly by the end of next week.

Another interesting interview here, with plenty about the pacing (and why we're all going to have to be patient about what happens to Gene......)

Petey Pate

I also enjoy the slow pace, and the emphasis on dialogue-free scenes, in this series.

One of the Netflix menu images
Spoiler alert
features Gus Fring
[close]
, therefore spoiling it for anyone who avoided watching the trailer.

Spoiler alert
I can't remember if Saul ever interacted with Gus in Breaking Bad, or was even aware of his existence.  It may be that he only has a small role to play in the Mike storyline.
[close]

NoSleep

A battery-themed episode. Not sure if the tape playing was by accident or if Chuck had rigged it; either way it will have consequences.

Puce Moment

I might be missing something, but what was the relevance of the tape? I couldn't hear what Chuck was saying.

NoSleep

He taped Jimmy confessing to rigging the address on the documents, which lost Chuck's firm the contract which Kim was now handling. It was the season 2 cliffhanger. Or have I missed something?

Puce Moment

Quote from: NoSleep on April 12, 2017, 01:21:50 PMHe taped Jimmy confessing to rigging the address on the documents, which lost Chuck's firm the contract which Kim was now handling. It was the season 2 cliffhanger.

Yes.

I was wondering what he specifically heard on the tape. I could hear Chuck's voice but I could not make out any specific words.

Petey Pate

Ernesto heard Jimmy say 'I changed 1216 to 1213' (or whichever way around it was) on the tape recorder before Chuck yelled at him to turn it off.

NoSleep

It's Jimmy saying he changed "1261 to 1216". It does look like the play button is intentionally pressed down so that the tape will start playing when the batteries are inserted, which I hadn't noticed on first view; I thought Ernesto had accidentally triggered it when he pushed the batteries home, but it looks more likely to be a Chuck ploy.

EDIT:Snap

Puce Moment

Many thanks, my confusion came from it sounding like Chuck's voice. I just thought he was overreacting.

Petey Pate

It was a revealing clip for someone to 'accidentally' hear, suggesting that Chuck had deliberately set the tape so it would begin playing at that point.

Also, why would Chuck bother changing the batteries if he didn't want anyone to hear it?

Dead Soon

That was Chuck's engineering without question. Worth remembering that Ernesto lied to him in the last episode of the previous season. Can't remember what it was specifically, but it was something to do with his knowledge of Jimmy bribing the copy guy to tell Chuck that Jimmy had never been in the shop. He's complicit in covering up Jimmy's fraud and lied right to Chuck's face. Ernesto gonna get fucked, boy.

NoSleep

Yes. Maybe Chuck has worked out that Ernesto might have covered up for Jimmy.