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Doctor Who - Series 10 (Part 2)

Started by Replies From View, April 15, 2017, 06:09:22 PM

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Norton Canes

Quote from: Replies From View on May 21, 2017, 11:21:02 AM
Are you aware that your daughter posts here?

I'm on the side of the ten-years-olds. After the brilliantly (but 'conventionally') scripted and plotted story last week, it was an unwelcome return to Moffat's plodding, convoluted and painfully 'complex' style of season 6. A storyline that tried to take in too may locations. Halfway through the episode before any real threat emerged. A monster with a terrifying twist, except this time he forgot to add the terrifying twist.

On top of the fundamental flaws, the Doctor's blindness was spun out beyond comic and dramatic potential (Nardole's interjections really started to grate). Because we had no idea how or why Missy had been captured, the execution scenes didn't have any real impact (and the looked cheap). Michelle Gomez seemed reluctant to convey any sense that her character was in any danger (OK it might be a ruse, but up until we find out, we need to think that she really might be destroyed).

If it is still Missy in the vault, all the excitement about finding out has really been pissed away (I still think it might be someone else).

Just basically, it wasn't gripping or absorbing in any way. And the fact that oh, it's only part one of three isn't an excuse.

Malcy

Properly loved that from start to finish. Looked great, thought the Truth Monks were a great design and sure to scare the kiddies. First 10/10 for me in a long time.

daf


Really hope we find out who those high and mighty ponces executing Missy were and why they were doing it. Those bits felt barely sketched in.

They were professional executioners acting on their own behalf? With the usual ridiculous level of magic powers that Moffat gives all his alien races (SIRI HOW MANY PEOPLE HAS DOCTOR KILLED).

kidsick5000

Quote from: Old Gold Tooth on May 22, 2017, 01:47:11 PM
With the usual ridiculous level of magic powers that Moffat gives all his alien races (SIRI HOW MANY PEOPLE HAS DOCTOR KILLED).

Magic powers? Doesn't your All caps brackets segment show how plausible it is to pull up data on a remote device?

mothman

Really, we might as well ask why the Daleks were previously tasked with executing the Master, then consigning his remains to the Doctor for transporting to Gallifrey for interrment. Oh, wait, don't tell me, people DO ask why the Daleks were previously tasked with executing the Master, then consigning his remains to the Doctor for transporting to Gallifrey for interrment...

Quote from: kidsick5000 on May 22, 2017, 04:09:29 PM
Magic powers? Doesn't your All caps brackets segment show how plausible it is to pull up data on a remote device?

Take your point, but who's recording that info? It just seemed like another moment for the Doctor to scare someone away by being impressive and cool but that didn't make much sense.

Bingo Fury

Quote from: Old Gold Tooth on May 22, 2017, 06:50:38 PM
Take your point, but who's recording that info?

Presumably the same sorts of obsessive reviewers and statistics freaks who compile The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy. ("Arthur Dent - nice man!") When you look at our humble Terran Wikipedia, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch.

Quote from: Bingo Fury on May 22, 2017, 08:18:17 PM
Presumably the same sorts of obsessive reviewers and statistics freaks who compile The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy. ("Arthur Dent - nice man!") When you look at our humble Terran Wikipedia, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch.

Fair do's. Just didn't feel like that much effort had been put into explaining who this powerful new group were or how and why they were doing stuff. Maybe it'll be explained in parts 2 and 3.

phantom_power

I thought it was a great episode. This season gets better and better. It definitely wasn't a waste of time as it was an intriguing mystery with a startling resolution. It also showed that these new baddies are not to be fucked with and will probably know The Doctor's tricks, which will make them even more formidable.

Bill is really good, and Nardole is great at the mix of comedy and drama.

Hank the Rapper

Not sure if it's been noted yet, but in another addition to TTOI-alumni-appearing-in-DW, the voice of the Monks in Extremis was none other than Tim "Cliff Lawton" Bentinck! Mr. Fifteen Shades of Grey himself.

Was the Cillit Bang guy not available?

Zetetic

Pissed away by the casual use of suicide and the sudden pivot into stupidity around the 41 minute mark.

greencalx

The incidental music in that had a riff that was a bit like the opening to Portishead's 'To Kill a Dead Man', which distracted me from what was actually happening in the episode.

Replies From View

Quote from: Zetetic on May 23, 2017, 09:21:43 PM
Pissed away by the casual use of suicide and the sudden pivot into stupidity around the 41 minute mark.

I like casual use of suicide.  And sudden pivots into stupidity around the 41 minute mark.

Zetetic


Replies From View

Quote from: greencalx on May 23, 2017, 09:38:50 PM
The incidental music in that had a riff that was a bit like the opening to Portishead's 'To Kill a Dead Man', which distracted me from what was actually happening in the episode.

Speaking of which, I think Murray Gold has been increasingly restrained of yet.  Maybe he has just run out of "EPIC" motifs, but to me it's a welcome shift away from bombast.  It's been happening gradually; I'd say it started emerging around series 7, but it feels very settled now.

Replies From View

Quote from: Zetetic on May 23, 2017, 10:04:31 PM
This doesn't surprise me.

OH IS THAT RIGHT.

Well it surprises me, what do you say to that?

Zetetic

That doesn't surprise me either.

Replies From View


FredNurke

Quote from: Replies From View on May 23, 2017, 10:05:41 PM
Speaking of which, I think Murray Gold has been increasingly restrained of yet.  Maybe he has just run out of "EPIC" motifs, but to me it's a welcome shift away from bombast.  It's been happening gradually; I'd say it started emerging around series 7, but it feels very settled now.
Maybe he got his hearing aid fixed.

phantom_power

Quote from: Zetetic on May 23, 2017, 09:21:43 PM
Pissed away by the casual use of suicide and the sudden pivot into stupidity around the 41 minute mark.

Is it suicide if you are just a subroutine?

HappyTree

While it didn't bother me, the suicide reasoning was odd, I thought. So the computer character finds out it's a computer character. Why would that lead to them killing themselves? It's not as if the real human had been zapped Tron style into the simulation. The sim was a separate entity. Killing itself is not "escape" back to the real world; it just ceases to exist. To all intents and purposes, the sim does actually die.

If that was to mess with the creatures and stop them being able to practise invading the real world properly, ok. But none of them said that. No, they were celebrating their impending freedom. Made no sense at all.

Drawing the parallel with theories about this world really being a hologram, if we genuinely found out that this was the case for all of us would that mean we all instantly kill ourselves? Would you? Of course not. You're alive, even if you find out the universe is a hologram. Plus there's the concept of the definition of what is alive? If the sim was "too good" as the Doc said, that means the recreations of everyone are actually alive in all the ways that we think matter.

So yeah, it was great and fun and I loved the whole Dan Brownesque intrigue, but they should have thought a bit more about the central premise.

phantom_power

Quote from: HappyTree on May 24, 2017, 06:53:04 AM


If that was to mess with the creatures and stop them being able to practise invading the real world properly, ok. But none of them said that. No, they were celebrating their impending freedom. Made no sense at all.


The CERN scientist said they were "saving the world" which I presume is related to this point

Ambient Sheep

Ah, right!  Because that had been bugging me too, and I was going to mention it in my upcoming post about the episode.  Perhaps they should have made that a bit clearer, then again that might have led to accusations of spoon-feeding.

The fact that everyone killed themselves after reading it does tend to imply that every single fucker had altrusitic motives though; some people might just have said "well fuck it, I'm doing quite nicely in this sim thanks, I'd rather stay running, fuck what happens to the real world".

Question, though: why would the aliens place a book in the Vatican library containing the truth, the Veritas, that this world was all a simulation?  After all the real world wouldn't have such a book, would it?  (Or would it, aaaaaaahhhhh!!)  And if they didn't place the book there, who on earth discovered that the world was a simulation, and just how did they discover it?  Why didn't they spread the word far and wide in order to foil the aliens' plans, rather than writing a dusty old tome?


Quote from: greencalx on May 23, 2017, 09:38:50 PMThe incidental music in that had a riff that was a bit like the opening to Portishead's 'To Kill a Dead Man', which distracted me from what was actually happening in the episode.

Rather apt though, if you think about it...

Replies From View

I just kept thinking of Monty Python's funniest joke in the world sketch.

Norton Canes

Quote from: HappyTree on May 24, 2017, 06:53:04 AM
While it didn't bother me, the suicide reasoning was odd, I thought. So the computer character finds out it's a computer character. Why would that lead to them killing themselves? It's not as if the real human had been zapped Tron style into the simulation. The sim was a separate entity. Killing itself is not "escape" back to the real world; it just ceases to exist. To all intents and purposes, the sim does actually die.

If that was to mess with the creatures and stop them being able to practise invading the real world properly, ok. But none of them said that. No, they were celebrating their impending freedom. Made no sense at all

Although the guy playing the head scientist was good, the CERN scenes suffered from the curse of the obviously non-speaking extras. Could they not have shelled out a few speaking fees so that at least one or two of them could have contributed? I remember Mummy on the Orient Express had the same problem - the scientists stood around in silence the whole time, really conspicuously.

And did I miss something, was there a reason the people at CERN spotted the probability flaw thing? 

mothman

Quote from: Replies From View on May 24, 2017, 01:01:09 PM
I just kept thinking of Monty Python's funniest joke in the world sketch.

Oh good, so not just me then.

Small Man Big Horse

It was pretty damn unlucky that the aliens ran the simulation just as the doctor had become blind, if they'd done it a day earlier then he'd have no doubt defeated them and the earth would have been safe from attack.

phantom_power

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on May 24, 2017, 03:03:32 PM
It was pretty damn unlucky that the aliens ran the simulation just as the doctor had become blind, if they'd done it a day earlier then he'd have no doubt defeated them and the earth would have been safe from attack.

Why would they have been defeated? It was a simulation. Do you die when your character in GTA does? They have run countless simulations to obtain as much data as possible about the threats to their invasion. There could be hundreds of simulations out there where the doctor defeats them and now they know how to deal with him if he tries whatever worked then. That is why they are so dangerous

The Roofdog

The only thing that confuses me about that is they're not battling the Doctor in the simulation we see are they? They only "win" because they include the Veritas and the Doctor figures out it's a simulation. Actually,  isn't it a worthless simulation because of the Veritas?