Just 17: The Final Corbyn Thread?

[BlodwynPig]

If I'd known TM was in Sicily, I would have asked these guys to help me out whilst I was there

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/22/italian-mafia-killed-sicily-cosa-nostra

[ZoyzaSorris]

Doesn't matter whether Corbyn is right or wrong, there is no worse time to be suggesting that we are responsible in any way for the Manchester bomb

Well, maybe the morning after would've been worse, at least he's waited a few days I suppose

A large percentage of the population would love to see RAF bombs dropping on the Middle East this weekend

Remember how Cherie Blair's comments on suicide bombers went down like a bucket of cold sick when Labour were in power?

was this one our fault as well?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/25/indonesian-president-joko-widodo-calm-suicide-attacks-jakarta

Noone is suggesting 'we' are responsible for the Manchester Bomb you utter cretin. Have you actually read any of the points above?
Sensible people, including Corbyn, are saying the obvious truth that the Tory government's policy of supporting jihadis abroad (and kissing the feet of the jihadis' masters in Riyadh) has not made us safer at home. This is important, as this obvious point is not being made by the media and political establishment, for obvious reasons.

The jihadi explosion in Indonesia and the Phillipines is partly 'our' (if that is a euphemism for the western establishment) fault, yes, if you know anything about the history of the region. 'We' helped a fascist dictator overthrow a secular socialist in the sixties with the vital assistance of hordes of jihadi extremists (who we then subsequently helped murder hundreds of thousands of socialists), helping to solidify the power of extremist Islam over the following decades. Support of Marcos in the Phillipines didn't help either. 'We' have also sat by and kissed Saudi's feet and showered them with weapons whilst they have spread extremist poison across the globe, with Indonesia as a particular target (largest muslim country in the world by population).

[Paul Calf]

Noone is suggesting 'we' are responsible for the Manchester Bomb you utter cretin.

>inb4 "But that's what people who are stupider than me will think"

[Beagle 2]

I think it's the right thing to say: I don't think the British public is terribly keen on governments spending their money bombing countries that they couldn't place on a map of the country itself and it's easy to make the connection between doing that and pissing people off enough to blow us up.

The right-wing press will have a fucking aneurysm, but he seems to be successfully ignoring them. I've seen so many grassroots campaigns to get people out voting, register to vote, pay attention to what's going on. Predictions of a 100-seat Tory majority are looking faintly ridiculous in retrospect.

Completely agree.

[Paulie Walnuts]

>inb4 "But that's what people who are stupider than me will think"

inb4 Corbyn's massacre in the GE

[greenman]

I hear plenty of everyday anti immigration/EU talk, I really cannot remember hearing much talk in favour of our various middle eastern misadventures.

Hard to know for sure as I think your dealing so much with viewing everything though the media's prism, but I think theres a strong possibility that there lines of attack here would actually be significantly weaker.

Just seems that issues like austerity and anti immigration have been sold to the public much more effectively where as questionable middle eastern interventionism is more something that's been normalised enough for people to largely ignore rather than actively support.

[Paulie Walnuts]

the obvious truth that the Tory government's policy of supporting jihadis abroad

I think the problem goes a bit further back than that, lots of terrible decisions were made long before the Tories got a sniff of power

[Danger Man]

I can't get my head around the poll bounce.

The Tory manifesto said that pensioners wouldn't be getting money thrown at them.

There followed an immediate dip in support.

[Paul Calf]

I think the problem goes a bit further back than that, lots of terrible decisions were made long before the Tories got a sniff of power

I think the problem goes back a little further than that. A lot of terrible decisions were made long before the Conservative or Labour parties existed.

[Scrapey Fish]

This is irrelevant to the current conversation but there's some pretty interesting stuff in the latest IFS analysis:

Labour's plans will take the country into a surplus by 2019/20
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/868103194295099393

Lib Dems actually offering the most to help the least well off
https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/868065069548130309

[Petey Pate]

I do get the sense that theres actually a bigger disconnection between the media and the public at large here than there is on immigration/the EU, helped I spose by the reality that we've seen how badly wrong(at least from there stated aims that were sold to the public anyway) middle eastern interventions have gone where as Brexit has yet to be tested.

I think you're right.  To a large number of the public Corbyn is merely stating the obvious, whereas the portrayal of it in the media is as if it's a shocking view seldom expressed.

[Kelvin]

What's the reaction on the doorstep been like the last few days, Pancreas?

[Petey Pate]

Welcome aboard new comrades.

[Absorb the anus burn]

What's the reaction on the doorstep been like the last few days, Pancreas?

Can I answer that? A much better reaction actually! Since the manifesto, I believe... Almost an immediate turn around on the doorstep. There are tons of things to talk about inside - from the nationalisation of the postal service and trains, to the four new bank holidays, to the scrapping of student fees.... It's quite visionary compared to previous election manifestos and there is something to 'lock into' that interests most people you actually talk to for an extended period.

[Dr Rock]

I only caught the last half of his speech, but I thought it was excellent; the right-wing spin against it was already ready to go, but I think he made the point that our foreign policy needs to change plus he would be tough on terrorism in a very effective manner.


Meanwhile, where the fuck is Theresa May? You'd think Amber Rudd was the candidate.

As for Andrew Neil, having correctly predicted that May would flounder, which was a word widely used after, I predict Mr B. Padd will find it hard to shake JC, who is quicker and cleverer than Neil, and will come out of it with more of the public liking and trusting him to be PM. Not that i'm predicting a Labour win, but the shift (if the polls are at all correct) is marvellous so far and it doesn't look like May putting some soldiers on the street has made her look tough, not when everyone knows she cut police numbers by 20k.

[Zetetic]

"These people hate our values, not our foreign policy."

Does this imply that our foreign policy doesn't manifest our values?

[Absorb the anus burn]

Welcome aboard new comrades.

That's amazing, thanks.... Two former Tory voters who have had enough - one posh and one working class - both indignant as fuck and sick of austerity, broken promises, lies...

[Zetetic]

If this speech at 11am in anyway suggests that victims of terror deserved it, that it's a rational cause and effect relationship between a war in one country, and suicide bombers in another, if it pretends attacks in Belgium and Sweden haven't happened,

What if, right, we argue that Britain's foreign policy has made not only Britain less safe but other places as well?

[TheFalconMalteser]

I'm sorry Zetetic, there might be a point there. I just think it's so clearly one of other overriding factors, and politically sensitive, I think you know what my views are.

I cannot believe that this motherfucker made political capital out of dead kids in my city.  That speech - shared in advance read what is says on tackling terror. It says nothing.  It mentions foreign policy, our prisons, and the need to "have a plan".  It's perhaps good politics, but it's virtue signalling of the highest order.

What does he say about ISIS? What does he say about Syria?  And he did this, before we've buried our victims, to relaunch his campaign.  He is grotesque.

[Twed]

I cannot believe that this motherfucker made political capital out of dead kids in my city.

Why, because you thought of doing it first on Twitter?

[NoSleep]

Somebody's going to take a nasty tumble if they slip on all this glycerine.

[Eis Nein]

I'm sorry Zetetic, there might be a point there. I just think it's so clearly one of other overriding factors, and politically sensitive, I think you know what my views are.

I cannot believe that this motherfucker made political capital out of dead kids in my city.  That speech - shared in advance read what is says on tackling terror. It says nothing.  It mentions foreign policy, our prisons, and the need to "have a plan".  It's perhaps good politics, but it's virtue signalling of the highest order.

What does he say about ISIS? What does he say about Syria?  And he did this, before we've buried our victims, to relaunch his campaign.  He is grotesque.

Fuck me, are all your posts like this? Acers.

my city

It's a crime-ridden toilet. Are you going to reimburse me for the VCR that got burgled? Are you fuck.

[royce coolidge]

TFM has got to be mentally ill surely ? I mean its beyond politics now it is an unhealthy obsession with every word Corbyn utters,twisting it way beyond politics. I predict a breakdown after the election,all this self induced stress can't be good for him.

[Kelvin]

Can I answer that?

Yeah, sorry, I couldn't think who else was canvassing door to door, other than pancreas. No disrespect intended.

A much better reaction actually! Since the manifesto, I believe... Almost an immediate turn around on the doorstep. There are tons of things to talk about inside - from the nationalisation of the postal service and trains, to the four new bank holidays, to the scrapping of student fees.... It's quite visionary compared to previous election manifestos and there is something to 'lock into' that interests most people you actually talk to for an extended period.

This is good to hear; the manifesto, taken as a whole, is definitely the strongest in my adult life. As I've said before, either on here, or on facebook (possibly on both), it's the first I've genuinely felt enthusiastic about, and which I'm proud to promote and support. I expressed concerns on here, prior to the manifesto launch, that it might lack truly bold policies, but I think, taken as a whole, there are enough eye catching ones and a positive enough vision to overcome this.

Any sense of how the Manchester attack has changed things, or how much it's shaping people's focus on the election?

[pigamus]

Please, God. I'm not asking for the Tories to lose. I know that's too much to hope for. But a victory so underwhelming it feels like a defeat? Come on. We all know you like a good laugh!

[olliebean]

Any sense of how the Manchester attack has changed things, or how much it's shaping people's focus on the election?

According to YouGov, it swung things back very slightly towards the Tories, but not nearly as much as they'd swung away from them the previous few days.

[pigamus]

Oh! I thought this interview had been postponed?

[Kelvin]

Nah, it's on now.

Wish Corbyn would just say it (foreign policy) is a contributory factor. That would be a much neater, less ambiguous answer.

[Konki]

Just finished watching it. He got a hard time from The Syrup, naturally, but dealt with it rather well I thought. I've never been his biggest fan but Corbyn seems to have finally realised it doesn't play well to get agitated and angry with the interviewer. The one major positive to come out of that is that he came across as a real, actual human man rather than a fucking robot like May.

[StewartLeehaslethimselfgo]

I'm sorry Zetetic, there might be a point there. I just think it's so clearly one of other overriding factors, and politically sensitive, I think you know what my views are.

I cannot believe that this motherfucker made political capital out of dead kids in my city.  That speech - shared in advance read what is says on tackling terror. It says nothing.  It mentions foreign policy, our prisons, and the need to "have a plan".  It's perhaps good politics, but it's virtue signalling of the highest order.

What does he say about ISIS? What does he say about Syria?  And he did this, before we've buried our victims, to relaunch his campaign.  He is grotesque.

Good to see you're taking the 5 point lead and narrowing well

''How long before Labour tank into the teens'' ''Labour face political annihilation''

Not sure which quotes were from you or Milverton but you get the gist