General Election 2017 thread

[Replies From View]

Don't many here believe in an inheritance tax so high the exchequer essentially takes entire estates "for the greater good"? I've seen it argued here many times over the years. It's usually combined with calls for compulsory euthanasia for the old.

Suddenly CaB is terribly worried about the old. What a strange election this has become.

A) Trolling
B) Thick Cunt
C) Both

?

[Zetetic]

Don't many here believe in an inheritance tax so high ...?

I'd certainly be happy to see a more significant inheritance tax, but I would like to be proportionately applied on the basis on wealth, rather than based on the bad luck of the individual regarding their health.

The Tory proposal would make the arrangement generally less progressive (due to the nature of the property/financial distribution of wealth), likely less sustainable, and more random in its impact.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Don't many here believe in an inheritance tax so high the exchequer essentially takes entire estates "for the greater good"? I've seen it argued here many times over the years. It's usually combined with calls for compulsory euthanasia for the old.

Suddenly CaB is terribly worried about the old. What a strange election this has become.

No, it's about stealing property from elderly people via equity release mortgages, meaning that the party who inherits the property/equity once inheritance tax is accounted for isn't the children, but a load of fucking banks and hedgefunds. It's the acceleration and expansion of the current dynamic where the incredibly wealthy and corporations hoover up all property going and then rent it out at extortionate rates. This will deliver hundreds of thousands of homes in individual private possession into the hands of those people, which is a terrible idea for everyone else concerned, whether they vote Tory, Labour or anything.

[Twit 2]

Don't many here believe in an inheritance tax so high the exchequer essentially takes entire estates "for the greater good"? I've seen it argued here many times over the years. It's usually combined with calls for compulsory euthanasia for the old.

Suddenly CaB is terribly worried about the old. What a strange election this has become.

Please just fuck off. You were banned. For being a cunt. Fuck off. There are a million places on the internet for you, but you had to come snivelling back to the place where everyone hates you, because you are a desperately sad human being. You are not welcome, go completely away please.

[Paul Calf]

Suddenly CaB is terribly worried about the old. What a strange election this has become.

You think people are worried about the old in this thread? In the run-up to a general election, Theresa May is hitting her core demographic where it hurts the most. This presumably includes you.

Enjoy it, Milv. We won't see the like for some time.

[BlodwynPig]

Manifesto 62

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Manifesto 62

1. I hope and pray your 62 year old children and families are next

[greenman]

You think people are worried about the old in this thread? In the run-up to a general election, Theresa May is hitting her core demographic where it hurts the most. This presumably includes you.

Enjoy it, Milv. We won't see the like for some time.

Really I think it reveals the big reason why were having the election now, not because the Tories view it as a chance for a massive win but rather because they think they can win whilst offering less to everyone but there real backers.

[SpiderChrist]

Where I live, the only (slim) chance of unseating the incumbent Conservative MP is to vote LibDem. The last time I voted LibDem, in the vaague hope of keeping the Tories out, they jumped into a coalition with the Conservatives at the first sniff of power and I'm not certain that they won't do exactly the same again should the oppportunity arise. Voting Labour or Green just seems like a colossal waste of time around here.

So, vote swap? Abstain? What?

This election is confusing and depressing.

[canadagoose]

Where I live, the only (slim) chance of unseating the incumbent Conservative MP is to vote LibDem. The last time I voted LibDem, in the vaague hope of keeping the Tories out, they jumped into a coalition with the Conservatives at the first sniff of power and I'm not certain that they won't do exactly the same again should the oppportunity arise. Voting Labour or Green just seems like a colossal waste of time around here.

So, vote swap? Abstain? What?

This election is confusing and depressing.

If I were you, I'd hold my nose and vote Lib Dem. It's got to be better than an actual Tory.

[pancreas]

So, vote swap? Abstain? What?

Just vote LibDem. In the unlikely event they do end up in a coalition with the Tories, it's a better outcome. They may just force a second ref, for example. They're fucking cunts, no question, but the Tories are total fucking cunts, and the average is better.

[Petey Pate]

Where I live, the only (slim) chance of unseating the incumbent Conservative MP is to vote LibDem. The last time I voted LibDem, in the vaague hope of keeping the Tories out, they jumped into a coalition with the Conservatives at the first sniff of power and I'm not certain that they won't do exactly the same again should the oppportunity arise. Voting Labour or Green just seems like a colossal waste of time around here.

So, vote swap? Abstain? What?

This election is confusing and depressing.

I'm in a similar situation, but just hold your nose and vote Lib Dem.  My constituency is also one which the Lib Dems and Greens made a pact so there is no Green candidate running.

Research who your local candidate and you'll probably find that they're less of a cunt than the Conservative who's running.  It made me feel better.

[WesterlyWinds]

Just vote LibDem. In the unlikely event they do end up in a coalition with the Tories, it's a better outcome. They may just force a second ref, for example. They're fucking cunts, no question, but the Tories are total fucking cunts, and the average is better.

Why is it better than no coalition? Minority governments do fuck all

[Thursday]

It's one vote that goes to a Lib Dem rather than a Tory, maybe they'll end up voting with the tories anyway, but it'd still worth going for it.

Plus purely at a local level, wouldn't you rather have a Lib Dem than a Tory?

[Zetetic]

Why is it better than no coalition? Minority governments do fuck all

Better a coalition than a Tory majority is Petey Pate's suggestion.

In any case, I'd look at the candidates.

[Replies From View]

Just vote LibDem. In the unlikely event they do end up in a coalition with the Tories, it's a better outcome. They may just force a second ref, for example. They're fucking cunts, no question, but the Tories are total fucking cunts, and the average is better.

Although if he does it as a vote-swap, he could vote Lib Dem "for somebody else" who might then vote Labour in return in an area that would benefit from it.

Worth a try anyway.  It's certainly a better version of vote-swapping than the previous example of assuming one's own seat is safely Labour, so voting Green.

[Eight Taiwanese Teenagers]

I don't get this vote swapping thing. A lot of Tories, being Tories, probably go on there pretending to be Labour or whatever and get you to switch your vote. I don't know how you can have any faith in it.

[rjd2]

You think people are worried about the old in this thread? In the run-up to a general election, Theresa May is hitting her core demographic where it hurts the most. This presumably includes you.

Enjoy it, Milv. We won't see the like for some time.

She isn't hurting them as much as Labour are suggesting, means testing and the like is absolutely spot on, not everyone should be entitled to free stuff. I have no issue with Corbyn hammering them over it as its very sensible politics and the man has an election to win, but its rather ironic that its not the UKIP  pandering about immigration and many of her other dire policies that are hurting her at the moment, but somewhat sensible fiscal policies about the elderly and school meals.

[Replies From View]

I don't get this vote swapping thing. A lot of Tories, being Tories, probably go on there pretending to be Labour or whatever and get you to switch your vote. I don't know how you can have any faith in it.

This is true, and it's probably not to be trusted in general.  But SpiderChrist is thinking of voting Lib Dem anyway as an anti-Tory vote.  He has nothing to lose if he does it 'in exchange for someone else voting Labour'.

[Zetetic]

means testing and the like is absolutely spot on, not everyone should be entitled to free stuff.

No, it's not - it's ultimately divisive (into a society of those who pay, and those who are paid for) and kills any sort of socialism in the long term.

The correct approach is that everyone contributes via taxation (which can be made more or less progressive) and that everyone is entitled to care from the state when they need it. (This is how it works in the NHS, with a few pointless exceptions, I note.)

It's often a harder sell up-front (because many people are only surprised to discover what 'means' means when their attempt to seek help are dashed against the bureaucracy of the state at a later point), I grant.

She isn't hurting them as much as Labour are suggesting,

How would you justify this? A lot of the devil here is in the details about deferred payments, surviving partners, costs associated with care that aren't 'care costs' and so on.

[Serge]

Hope TheFalconMalteser dies in his sleep tonight.

To be fair, whenever I die, I hope I'm fucking asleep when it happens. Nobody here is going to die in their sleep or wide awake anytime soon.

[Replies From View]

To be fair, whenever I die, I hope I'm fucking asleep when it happens. Nobody here is going to die in their sleep or wide awake anytime soon.

Old age is a kind of sleep.

[Quincey]

"No, it's not - it's ultimately divisive (into a society of those who pay, and those who are paid for) and kills any sort of socialism in the long term."

How does means testing kill socialism? Not having means testing doesn't seem to make much difference for child benefit - the Daily Mail complains about poor people/those on benefits getting it yet squeals when people on over £40k no longer get it.

[Zetetic]

1. The "squealing" emphasises the idea that the state is not for you.
2. Then you attack the benefit in principle, supported by people who now resent that they're paying for someone else.

More broadly, as I say, it emphasises the idea that the State is something that's paid for by one set of people for the benefit of another.

Not having means testing doesn't seem to make much difference for child benefit

To be clear, Child Benefit is now means tested, as you highlight.

Most relevant stories on the Daily Mail are 1) about enraging people that they no longer get the benefit, 2) going on about foreigners (in which the focus on child benefit is largely incidental) or 3) going on about poor people (in which the focus on child benefit is largely incidental) .

[SpiderChrist]

This is true, and it's probably not to be trusted in general.  But SpiderChrist is thinking of voting Lib Dem anyway as an anti-Tory vote.  He has nothing to lose if he does it 'in exchange for someone else voting Labour'.

You're both correct. I've spent a very long time despising the Tories, and yet they still retain the capcity to enrage and repulse me.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Hope you all enjoyed the woman on the Sky News paper review last night stating that socialists represented 1% of the population.

Presumably when the votes come in on polling day, the other 29% were only doing it out of loyalty and definitely weren't socialists.

Despite the media hostility I think Britain is finally getting to the point where it is starting to think about hope over fear and cowardice, even though we aren't there yet. Labour's message has been relentlessly constructive and positive and no matter what particular preference you have, that cannot be argued against. It is resonating, nowhere near as much as is needed but there is now a fervent groundswell of people who want change and actively despise Tory and neoliberal politics. That is something that needs working on in the years to come.

[Dr Rock]

I don't get this vote swapping thing. A lot of Tories, being Tories, probably go on there pretending to be Labour or whatever and get you to switch your vote. I don't know how you can have any faith in it.

You are encouraged to get to know the person - for me, I need to see a legit FB page that goes back a few years, and has plenty of leftie posts on it. There is still a level of trust that the other person won't cheat and vote for their preference too, but I assume if I'm swapping with someone who wants me to vote Green and they can cast a Labour vote in their  marginal constituency that could swing Tory, chances are they are a good sort, and probably want to help with Labour in that area whilst also getting me to vote Green, their first choice, so that overall the Greens can get a higher percentage of votes, if not seats, which could put pressure for a PR system again.

[Black_Bart]

I need to see a legit FB page that goes back a few years

Just make sure you bother to read the dates properly(!)

[Danger Man]

It's sad that the insane FPTP system drives people into 'make a wish' type deals.

But as long as Labour politicians think they can win under FPTP then we'll always have it.

Labour. For the few not the many.

[neardark]

I was only joking when I said I hoped TheFalconMalteser dies in his sleep tonight.