Being a normal person and living with the existence of ISIS

[The Masked Unit]

Sitting back and accepting terrorist attrocities isn't an option.
Rewinding time and not allowing the spread of Islam in the UK isn't an option.
Sending all the muslims "back" isn't an option.
Not intervening in the foreign affairs of majority muslim countries - would arguably help a bit but isn't going to happen any time soon for a variety of reasons.
Banning Islamic worship? Not an option and even if it were tried, would make the problem ten times worse.

Given all of that and assuming option 1 isn't acceptable, the only workable response is much greater scrutiny of anyone who shows any signs of being interested in the more extreme aspects of the Islamic faith, making preaching of certain brands of Islam a ciminal offence etc. An expansion of what we're already doing in other words, but requiring greater resources.

[Paul Calf]

Basically, demanding more surveillance?

[Petey Pate]

You could always join the YPG and fight Daesh on the front line, but if you make it back alive you'll be arrested.

[buttgammon]

Flying into Manchester on Friday. Pray for me!




(Because I'm flying Ryanair and the likelihood of my flight arriving late and the possibly of having to get a bus from the plane to the terminal could be a nuisance)

[Glebe]

Flying into Manchester on Friday. Pray for me!




(Because I'm flying Ryanair and the likelihood of my flight arriving late and the possibly of having to get a bus from the plane to the terminal could be a nuisance)

At least you're not flying United Airlines!

[buttgammon]

I actually don't mind Ryanair. I only ever use them on short flights and have had very little trouble, bar a long delay once.

[The Masked Unit]

Basically, demanding more surveillance?

Given that it works in thwarting the majority of attacks but they can only do so much with the current resources they have, then yes. Why isn't that a valid option in your opinion?

[thenoise]

My friend's cat is named Isis.  Shall I phone the police or kill it myself?

[Ambient Sheep]

I guess we just have to get on with our lives. Living in fear will do nowt. Maybe take advice from folk who lived through the troubles and the IRA bombing campaigns on the 90s. They were far more frequent than Islamist terrorism.

It really puts the difference between the Islamic terrorist threat and Irish republican/unionist threat into perspective.

Not being from NI let alone being around when the troubles were at their peak, does anyone here remember the government response then? Were people as hysterical about terrorism then as they are now?

In a word, no.

I'm not from NI either, but my own experience:

Born 1964, grew up just outside London, used to visit the West End and other places as a kid during the 1970s when the IRA were busy bombing Oxford Street.  Not arsed, cigs.

(Another way in which it was a different world, from age 11 I'd quite regularly get my Mum to drive a few miles to drop me off at Epping tube station, whereupon I could get a 40p ticket to roam the whole tube network for the day on my own.  A couple of areas I was warned off by my Dad to avoid (the then-unregenerated King's Cross, Brixton, and the whole southern end of the Northern line come to mind), but basically apart from that I could go where I liked.  Once I turned 14 and tube fares then went up by about 800% for an adult ticket, I'd take the local train with a travelcard instead, it worked out cheaper and no need to beg Mum for a lift.)

Actually, everyone should take a look at this list of Irish republican attacks on London, it's really quite impressive.  Even I'm surprised to see how many they were, and I lived through them.

And yet we weren't really bothered.  From what I can remember there was a feeling of "Oh well, they've just done one, there won't be another along for a while." so you actually felt safer going along the next day.

By the time I was in my teens and early twenties, and I was going into London on a pretty much weekly basis, they'd calmed down (the 1980s section of that list is considerably smaller) but the threat was still there.  Again, not arsed.

To be honest I think part of this was the blasé-ness of youth, the feeling that you are invincible and that it won't happen to you.  (That's actually one of the things I think is worst about the Manchester business, the fact that the thousands of kids in that arena have lost that.)  I can't deny that.  And yet it seems to me that the hysteria in the papers was a lot less.  Perhaps it's because my family didn't take the tabloids, so I never really saw them, and back then the broadsheets were a lot more sober than they are now.

The biggest difference between now and then I can see is that back then the government were actively keen to stamp out fear, to insist that we all carry on as usual, etc. etc.  It was very much "Keep Calm and Carry On" only without the posters.  Nowadays the government actually seem to want us to be afraid, even if they half-heartedly deny it.  I'm trying to pinpoint when the change happened, because for all of Thatcher's other sins (including many over Irish republicanism, e.g. the stupid voice ban thing), this is something that she had right too.

When did fear become a political tool in the UK?  Sometime in the 2000s, I think...


However I do know how you feel a bit, Moondust.  Once a month I toddle along to a social event that just happens to be held in one of London's more prominent gay venues.  Sometimes I do wonder if some fundamentalist nutter will think that it's time to sock it to the gays and me and my friends (some of whom are gay and some of whom are not) will end up getting exploded as a result.

I just have to try to bite that feeling down and think "C'mon now, this is just because you're getting old... you weren't worried as a kid in the 1970s, you weren't worried as a teen and early-20s-something in the 1980s... don't be worried now."

And so, by-and-large, I'm not.


The one annoying thing (for the purposes of this discussion) is that when the IRA kicked off again in the early 90s (my late twenties), I was by then living well outside the city in domestic (alleged) bliss, and visited the city perhaps twice in that whole time.  So I don't have a comparison to when I was a fully-grown adult with something to lose.


Sorry that I've rambled, but I hope that helps kinda give you some sort of insight.

[Norton Canes]

You are safe

Repeat, You are safe

[Cuellar]

Actually, everyone should take a look at this list of Irish republican attacks on London, it's really quite impressive.  Even I'm surprised to see how many they were, and I lived through them.

Christ they didn't half get through em. Makes you wonder what these ISIS lot are doing with their time!

[Danger Man]

Once a month I toddle along to a social event

must. not. post. barndance. photo.


(or should I, to show that the terrorists haven't won?)

[Dr Trouser]

You are safe

Repeat, You are safe

Do they really need all those bags and spare hats?

[MoonDust]

Childhood memories of the IRA

Sorry to edit your quote to that, sounds like a bizarre album title, but it just felt silly quoting the whole thing.

Very interesting and thanks for your insight. Not rambling at all. I had an inkling people weren't as hysterical back then even though the threat was greater. I dunno. I haven't yet checked out the list, but do you think part of the modern fear could be down to the fact islamist terror is sudden and out of the blue, whereas the IRA (as far as I know) warned people in advance? Not saying this makes the IRA any nicer, but surely if a lot of the bombings were warned about in advance so people (mostly) could evacuate in time, then I can imagine public panic won't be as rife. Whereas now some of us are going round thinking we could be blown up at any moment without warning, do you know if people in the 70s/80s were thinking at the back of their heads "the IRA might attack today, but hopefully we'll have ample warning"?

I dunno. Might sound a bit silly, but maybe it's the nature of the attacks rather than frequency which makes public fear different these days.

[Ambient Sheep]

You are safe

Repeat, You are safe

Yup, and that's the sort of sight that I *never* remember seeing on the streets of London until recent years.


Actually, that reminds me of something else that I thought was very telling.  As previously mentioned, after about 1990, my visits to the capital became few and far between, as I moved away from the area and indeed round the country.  When I moved back again in 2011, the thing that most shocked me when I first went into London on the train was all the:

"unattended bags may be removed and destroyed by the security services"

announcements.  I think it was the "by the security services" bit that got me.  Very pre-1990 Eastern Europe, very Orwellian.  Now we just take it for granted, but from a born Londoner who'd grown up through all the IRA stuff (and yes, we had unattended bag notices back then, and the occasional announcement about not leaving bags unattended), hearing all this regularly-automatically-broadcast "destroyed by the security services" stuff on his return to his birthplace came across as chilling.  That's the sort of thing I mean about the government wanting us to be afraid.

After that, seeing the armed police at Liverpool Street station was only a minor bit more scary... perhaps because I'd read about those in advance.

[Danger Man]

I dunno. Might sound a bit silly, but maybe it's the nature of the attacks rather than frequency which makes public fear different these days.

The internet makes everything seem very immediate and real and therefore scarier. There's a big difference between reading about something once a day in a newspaper and (in some cases) actually watching terrorist events as they unfold.

[MoonDust]

The internet makes everything seem very immediate and real and therefore scarier. There's a big difference between reading about something once a day in a newspaper and (in some cases) actually watching terrorist events as they unfold.

Yeah that's true. The age of rolling news and all that.

[hewantstolurkatad]

What was the context of this again? I can't remember but I feel like i should

Nevermind, got it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp9sN2bzPVs

[Hangthebuggers]

You are safe

Repeat, You are safe

Well they're not exactly going to be shooting innocent UK citizens are they?

I don't understand the confusion here? We're under threat by Islam right? So what do we do in that situation? Raise the security levels? Or lower them and invite them over for tea?

Are people really this stupid?

--

Also people mentioning the IRA? The IRA didn't suicide bomb people and often left warnings in advance and generally tried to target politicians. Whereas yer muslims are stabbing innocents, deliberately bombing children and never give warnings.

[Kelvin]

how the FUCK do you deal with something as massive and complicated and shittifying as ISIS?

By realising that it's not really as massive, complicated and shittifying as the coverage would have you believe. Remember: you're still vastly, vastly less likely to be killed by a bomb in this country, than to be hit by a car, or stabbed, or any other unpredictable, seemingly random event. What's happened is tragic, but really no more a reason to be frightened than using a car, or walking at night.

Horrible things like this happen from time to time and no amount of internet surveillance or armed police can ever stop it from happening again. It is, statistically, a highly unlikely event, which, thankfully, most people will never experience.   

[katzenjammer]

Given that it works in thwarting the majority of attacks but they can only do so much with the current resources they have, then yes. Why isn't that a valid option in your opinion?

It's an option, but is it one we want to take? How much of a surveillance state do you want to live in?

Personally I'd rather remain relatively free and not spied upon much and accept the ever so slightly increased risk.

[steve98]

The government should give notice to these twats that - if they blow themselves up, their residue will be scraped-up and mixed in with pig's flesh and stored away frozen (maybe in that Arctic seed-bank that was in the news), for ever.

There must be a bit in the Koran that precludes entry to Paradise for any Jihadist who's mortal remains have been made into cheap Processed Pork Products. I'll have a look.

[Howj Begg]

some great posts in this thread by billtheburger, paul calf, Masked Unit.

The CBT thing is bang on. Don't avoid, go out and do things with a positive outlook. Have an attitude of tolerance, compassion, and conviction in your beliefs not to give into bigotry or seductive/reductive ideas. Ultimately acting in that way makes us stronger, and makes life worth living.

[daf]

I think their underpants must be on too tight - it's the only explanation for all the naughtiness and why they seem so cross all the time.

Switch to boxers lads, and let your freak flag dangle free!

[BritishHobo]

It is insane how much the media further the panic. At one point on Tuesday I felt ready to start campaigning for the abolition of 24 hour news, because that compared with the desire for online news outlets to be constantly in the know has created a horrible fucking sinkhole where the smoke clears on an atrocity to reveal you're surrounded by journalists charging down screaming HI SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS CAN WE USE YOUR VIDEO WE KNOW YOU'RE WORRIED YOUR BROTHER'S DIED SO WE'VE COME ROUND YOUR HOUSE TO GET YOU TO GRIEVE ONSCREEN FUCKING HELL IT'S CARNAGE ALL THIS, ALL THOSE KIDS, IT'S FUCKING CARNAGE LOOK AT THIS VIDEO FIFTY TIMES OF THEM ALL SCREAMING CAN WE USE YOUR PICTURES CHEERS

[Norton Canes]

Well they're not exactly going to be shooting innocent UK citizens are they?

No, that will definitely not ever happen.

Anyway this is the main thing:



Standing in front of a house where the only way in is already blocked by a twenty foot high iron fence! Hardly an efficient use of resources. That brave boy could instead be guarding a more likely (i.e. soft) target like a branch of Ms Selfridge or a pub in Canal Street.

[Shay Chaise]

That is fucking terrifying. I can tick off most of the top seven and I'm not worried about war or terrorism at all. That is some fucking real talk mate. Need to change my life before it's too late.

[Norton Canes]

'Low fruit and vegetables'? Like, hitting your head on them?

[katzenjammer]

Those dastardly low fruit and vegetables!

Don't worry, Cobra has dealt with the threat by wisely activating Operation Tempura

[katzenjammer]

That is fucking terrifying. I can tick off most of the top seven and I'm not worried about war or terrorism at all. That is some fucking real talk mate. Need to change my life before it's too late.

You do know you're not going to live forever, right?

I mean, I guess most people there died relatively old