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Strands of society you have a (possibly irrational) unshakeable hatred of

Started by 23 Daves, December 19, 2005, 05:33:38 PM

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Shoulders?-Stomach!

Re-slim

I think that's a bit unfair really. You criticize a supposed generalisation yet make an equally culpable example of generalisations yourself.

Maximash

Quote from: "fanny splendid"Yet you completely agree with every other hatefilled rant in this thread?

Erm.... no.... there's a lot of cynicism here (both called for and unnecessary), but nothing offended me as much as Crab's comments.

Suttonpubcrawl

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"I thought that the whole point of going away to university was that it was a halfway house between your parents and the big wide world? You explored who you were and all that bollocks. I don't think it should just be seen as the first rung on the vocational ladder. If so, you might as well just watch the Learning Zone.

On the other hand if the "whole point" of university is as a halfway house between your parents and the big wide world, why not just go backpacking for a while or something like that? Getting in to large amounts of debt by spending three years doing a course at university seems a spectacularly extravagant way of exploring who you are.

Quote from: "ELW10"It's an old bugbear anyway - 'Students nowadays only care about themselves, not about the wider world'. At what point did that become a fair comment?

It's not a fair comment! I'd say that students as a group probably care about the wider world as much as, if not more than, most other groups of people.

wasp_f15ting

The problem with widening access for students is the amount of shit that has come through now. Even people who had got 4 As at A-Level are doing really poor at uni. I am sure its just the culture of being student too. I think back in the day at least a majority got 2:1 passes, now the percentage who had obtained 2:1 on my degree this year (2002-2005) was less than 4% there were 2 students out of the 137 who had obtained 1st class passes.

This year in second year, the highest scoring person was someone who scored 68.82% and the second highest was yours truly with 68.77% (which are 2:1s) but if it were the final year they would have pushed both of ours to 1st classes. There were 12 students in the lower 60% range, this is out of 117 students on my course as a whole. It is worrying that so many people on the course just cannot be arsed. Many do not work and have very easy lives. Some of us do work; I work nights full time, so I can save enough money for a postgraduate qualification next year.

If I was not to work at all things would be 100times easier, having said that, working gives me extra discipline, I need to be very organized. I think the problem with the large proportion of students, is that they don't want to study.

It is far easier to read the grudniad or independent, than sit for 30+hrs reading up on a subject. This is the major failure of students now. They do not look beyond surface issues, thus applying the same logic when it comes to writing dissertations and essays which require far more articulate, informed opinions that shade grey rather splash black and white.

I think good students are a minority based on what I know from students, by being a student. The vast majority are free loading loathers that agree to all the criteria of hatred that real society has towards them. That said, there is a hardcore kernel of students who love what they are studying. With a quench for knowledge so overwhelming it shines through in their work. These students are a few, and some burn out and quit university all together :( the rest compromise and try and do their best.

Maybe those in Oxford and Cambridge are just study orientated, but up ere in the north, no such luck..

slim

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"'Students nowadays only care about themselves, not about the wider world'. At what point did that become a fair comment?
It didn't! You can't just tar the top 5% of the population (wink) with the same brush!

Quote from: "Shoulders?-Stomach!"I think that's a bit unfair really. You criticize a supposed generalisation yet make an equally culpable example of generalisations yourself.
Did I? Where did I generalise about students? I try and avoid generalisations whenever I can, but if one's slipped through, point it out to me and I'll edit it away and bear it in mind in future.

chand

Quote from: "Dubzilla"I've thought of a new one.  People who make you take your shoes off at the door because somehow their carpet is special.

Shoes are for outside.

Four Eyes

Is anyone else worrying that the banal observations and witty asides listed in this thread could be used for Jack Dee's next act? The shoes things above especially.

Carlos Tevez

The shoes thing was used in his act.

I agree with the shoes thing by the way; I always try to bargain with whoever's house it is to let me off.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quotepoint it out to me and I'll edit it away and bear it in mind in future.

I thought your post sort of assumed that because you did various things at Uni, that meant everyone else did the same thing too. It wasn't a direct generalisation but it's definately implicit.

slim

First, I used an example to question a generalisation and stated explicitly that it was about me.

Second, I made a jokey comment about spending time in the pub, citing me as an example. Neither were generalisations. A generalisation would've been:

QuoteAll students spend most of their time in the pub.
not
QuoteDoesn't mean they'll spend it researching though... I spent most of my time in the pub after being fucked about with constantly shifting lecture times.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

I've worked in bookshops over the past decade, and that's been an illuminating look at the way students have changed.

In my day, if you had the essay question 'Outline how the rise of nationalism affected post-Napoleonic Europe', you were exected to go into a library/bookshop, find some generic history books on the period and actually piece some research together. You were a student - that was what you did.

These days, students want to find a book with the exact title 'How the Rise of Nationalism Affected Post-Napoleonic Europe'. And they want you to find if for them - they certainly don't want to browse the shelves themselves.

Yes, another generalisation. No doubt there are old-school students elsewhere who do things properly. But it is a general change I've observed.

mayer

I am in the top 5% of the country, academically speaking (at least I was before I started getting rubbish). I ended up doing a Politics and Philosophy degree, spending most of my time 200 miles from my 'rents house, drinking scotch, being on here, and staying up with my housemates discussing Philosophy and British, European and Middle-Eastern Politics. I went on a couple of candle-holding vigils and a peace march in Trafalgar Square (for differing political causes to the popular ones, so they probably don't count, or something). I edited two issues of a fanzine and dossed around putting my mate's music on CDs for gigs and online as a hobby, trying to have some fun and help them out and stick it to the man.


Now I'm sixteen grand in debt with the SLC, a grand in debt with Barclays, working a tossy office job (still 200 miles from home), earning a massive £5.75 an hour, grateful to be home for a week's holiday and give everyone a hug and save a few quid on food and that.

I sometimes wonder what would've happened if I'd been a little bit more career-minded/obsessed with money, like the plurality of the people in the UK that voted in general elections between 1979 and 1997. Because whilst I can't point fingers and tell you who kept Margaret Thatcher in power for over a decade, I can tell you right now it wasn't "today's students", but that it was people of Lalla's generation.

humanleech

Quote from: "mayer"Because whilst I can't point fingers and tell you who kept Margaret Thatcher in power for over a decade, I can tell you right now it wasn't "today's students", but that it was people of Lalla's generation.
Not students though.

Sherringford Hovis

Quote from: "Sef"I always try to bargain with whoever's house it is to let me off.

Mosques are by and large fairly strict about the 'no shoes' rule: let us know how you get on discussing it with Allah (peace be upon him).

mayer

Quote from: "humanleech"
Quote from: "mayer"Because whilst I can't point fingers and tell you who kept Margaret Thatcher in power for over a decade, I can tell you right now it wasn't "today's students", but that it was people of Lalla's generation.
Not students though.

Secret ballot....     :-)

Evil Knevil

Quote from: "Sherringford Hovis"
Quote from: "Sef"I always try to bargain with whoever's house it is to let me off.

Mosques are by and large fairly strict about the 'no shoes' rule: let us know how you get on discussing it with Allah (peace be upon him).

You don't say pbuh for Allah, only the prophets like Jesus (pbuh) or Abraham(pbuh).

Also, in regard to ELW10's thing about books. Should the student just ignore a probably significant piece of work on the subject they're supposed to be studying? That's just stupid. In any case, any academic worth his salt will be able to see if he or she is just slavishly copying somebody else's argument.

lazyhour

Tip for selfish, inconsiderate people who have a problem with taking their shoes off in other people's homes:  Don't go to Japan.




Or my house.

Ambient Sheep

Unless of course one has a strange inexplicable reaction that causes one to start sweating uncontrollably when walking around in just socks.  Perhaps those "selfish, inconsiderate people" have a motive that never occurred to you.

Still, probably good advice not to go to either of those two places, then.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Evil Knevil"
Also, in regard to ELW10's thing about books. Should the student just ignore a probably significant piece of work on the subject they're supposed to be studying?

No, it's the fact that they look horrified at reading anything which isn't ultra-specific to the particular essay they're writing. They only want to use one book. That wasn't my experience of essay-writing, particularly history - I remember research being, by its very nature, incredibly bitty.

My other experience in bookshops is students plonking their reading lists down on the desk and expecting the staff to get the books while they just stand there. Like they're Margot Leadbetter in Harrod's food hall. Again, that wasn't my experience - I always used to enjoy looking for the books myself.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "mayer"Because whilst I can't point fingers and tell you who kept Margaret Thatcher in power for over a decade, I can tell you right now it wasn't "today's students", but that it was people of Lalla's generation.

No, we turned 18 two years after she resigned. I also missed being eligible to vote in the '92 election by a couple of months. You can blame me for the first Blair term if you like though.

I too often wonder how things would have turned out if I'd done a more vocationally-minded course. I'd probably be better off now, but I'd no doubt be full of regret for a student experience I missed out on. I'd think 'Yes, I've got a nice, well-paid job in IT and I can afford a house and a pension and everything, but I'll never get another opportunity to spend three years exploring my mind and pissing about'.

It's futile wondering what would have been, anyway. You couldn't have been career-minded because...that's not who you are.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "mayer"Because whilst I can't point fingers and tell you who kept Margaret Thatcher in power for over a decade, I can tell you right now it wasn't "today's students", but that it was people of Lalla's generation.

No, we turned 18 two years after she resigned. I also missed being eligible to vote in the '92 election by a couple of months. You can blame me for the first Blair term if you like though.

I too often wonder how things would have turned out if I'd done a more vocationally-minded course. I'd probably be better off now, but I'd no doubt be full of regret for a student experience I missed out on. I'd think 'Yes, I've got a nice, well-paid job in IT and I can afford a house and a pension and everything, but I'll never get another opportunity to spend three years exploring my mind and pissing about'.

It's futile wondering what would have been, anyway. You couldn't have been career-minded because...that's not who you are.

sproggy

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"...but I'll never get another opportunity to spend three years exploring my mind and pissing about'.

There's nothing to stop you doing that at any point in one's life/career.

Why restrict it to the formative years?

lazyhour

Quote from: "Ambient Sheep"Unless of course one has a strange inexplicable reaction that causes one to start sweating uncontrollably when walking around in just socks.  Perhaps those "selfish, inconsiderate people" have a motive that never occurred to you.

Okay, so.... rare medical conditions notwithstanding, I maintain my position.

You really don't agree that refusing to take your shoes of in someone's house is rather self-important and inconsiderate (outside of sweaty-foot-sock ailments)?  I must say, I'm surprised!

Edit: Or were you trying out some confusing sarcastic irony stuff?  The use of "inexplicable" suggests that you side with the carpet-protectors, but the general tone of your post rather seems to be 'chewing me out'.

Puzzling.

chand

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"
Quote from: "Evil Knevil"
Also, in regard to ELW10's thing about books. Should the student just ignore a probably significant piece of work on the subject they're supposed to be studying?

No, it's the fact that they look horrified at reading anything which isn't ultra-specific to the particular essay they're writing. They only want to use one book. That wasn't my experience of essay-writing, particularly history - I remember research being, by its very nature, incredibly bitty.

I wanted to write my dissertation without referencing any books at all, I had my own ideas and just wanted to plough right on with them, but my tutor saw my draft chapter had no quotes in and told me to go back and insert some so it looked like I'd done research from several different sources.

So in the end I took out somewhere between 15 and 20 books from the library. And not one of them had the same title as my essay question, I had to actually find the relevant bits like 'today's students' apparently never do. And I wasn't a particularly conscientious student, I virtually stopped going in and concentrated on making music in my room.

As some who was a student a couple of years ago, I can tell you that there are many students who are extremely thorough about research, very opinionated, very political, and who no doubt do sit up into the small hours discussing semantics or whatever. Equally there are many whose main goal seems to be to have the biggest collection of empty drinks bottles/cans by their window so you can see how ker-azy they are. Anyway, what I'm getting at is, there's still every different kind of student you can imagine.

Carlos Tevez

Quote from: "lazyhour"
Quote from: "Ambient Sheep"Unless of course one has a strange inexplicable reaction that causes one to start sweating uncontrollably when walking around in just socks.  Perhaps those "selfish, inconsiderate people" have a motive that never occurred to you.

Okay, so.... rare medical conditions notwithstanding, I maintain my position.

You really don't agree that refusing to take your shoes of in someone's house is rather self-important and inconsiderate (outside of sweaty-foot-sock ailments)?  I must say, I'm surprised!

Edit: Or were you trying out some confusing sarcastic irony stuff?  The use of "inexplicable" suggests that you side with the carpet-protectors, but the general tone of your post rather seems to be 'chewing me out'.

Puzzling.

I thought it was only your mates parents who made you take your shoes off when you were a kid anyway.

If you were having a party, would you make everyone take their shoes off?

lazyhour

There are always going to be exceptions!  Wild shoe parties, sweating diseases, etc.

What's wrong with you people??


slim

As a lazy, unwashed teen with stinky trainer feet, I always abhored the no shoes rule. As a more clean and considerate adult, I don't mind it any more.


Almost Yearly

Quote from: "slim"clean and considerate
Them's the keywords. Sir, you can take it all off in my house.