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'Intelligent Design' banned by US Court

Started by butnut, December 20, 2005, 10:26:20 PM

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butnut

I'd forgotten this was happening, and am delighted by this verdict:

Quote'Intelligent design' teaching ban

A court in the US has ruled against the teaching of "intelligent design" alongside Darwin's theory of evolution.

A group of parents in the Pennsylvania town of Dover had taken the school board to court for demanding biology classes not teach evolution as fact.

The authorities wanted to introduce the idea that Earth's life was too complicated to have evolved on its own.

Judge John Jones ruled the school board had violated the constitutional ban on teaching religion in public schools.

The 11 parents who brought the case argued that teaching intelligent design (ID) was effectively teaching creationism, which is banned.
   
They complained that ID - which argues life must have been helped to develop by an unseen power - is tantamount to religious education.

The separation of church and state is enshrined in the US constitution.

The school board argued they had sought to improve science education by exposing pupils to alternatives to Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.

But Judge Jones said he had determined that ID was not science and "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents".

In a 139-page written ruling, the judge said: "Our conclusion today is that it is unconstitutional to teach ID as an alternative to evolution in a public school science classroom."

He accused school board members of disguising their true motives for introducing the ID policy.

"We find that the secular purposes claimed by the board amount to a pretext for the board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in the public school classroom," he said.

He banned any future implementation of the policy in Dover schools.

The case, the first of its kind, sets an important precedent in a country where several states have adopted the teaching of ID, reports the BBC's James Coomerasamy in Washington.

Ironically, he adds, it is a somewhat academic ruling in the Dover area since parents there voted last month to replace the school board members who brought in the policy.

That move provoked US TV evangelist Pat Robertson to warn the town was invoking the wrath of God.

A lawyer for the parents said the ruling was a "real vindication" for those families who challenged the school board.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4545822.stm

I hope that this means and end to all this nonsense, but it almost certainly won't. No doubt there will be appeals - and aren't there other cases going on at the moment anyway? I doubt this one case will kill off the whole ID 'movement.'

Mister Six

Well there goes Flying Spaghetti Monsterism.

Ambient Sheep

Excellent news!!  I've been really worried about the upsurge in ID - and religion generally - in US schools, and this will hopefully go a long way to stopping it in its tracks, even if Bush does say that the constitution is "just a bit of paper".

Quote from: "Mister Six"Well there goes Flying Spaghetti Monsterism.
:-D

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteThe authorities wanted to introduce the idea that Earth's life was too complicated to have evolved on its own.

God bless America.

ccab

That's good news, but it is in Pennsylvania. Give it a few months for the Supreme Godfearing Court of Missouri to overturn it.

Just out of interest, does anyone here have any idea if Evolution is taught in any form at Brigham Young University?

All Surrogate

QuoteThe school board argued they had sought to improve science education by exposing pupils to alternatives to Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.

But Judge Jones said he had determined that ID was not science
This is quite an intriguing point.  What constitutes science, and how does ID fit into it?  Science purports to be a search for the truth, for the laws of the universe, and religion says the same thing.  So why is ID not scientific theory?

Well, to begin, ID is not an explanation.  It just says that humanity came into existence, by some means.  ID is an empty catchall.  It might as well say that the universe came into existence this very moment at the command of God, with humans merely having memories of prior existence by dint of suitable constructions in their freshly-minted minds.

How is this different from science?  The philosophy of science, the existence of objective reality is a turbulent area, so how can we know that ID is not science?  Science can be seen as a similar tautology to ID - it basically says that the universe is as it is.  The laws we formulate to explain are just thoughts, patterns of ideas, as ethereal as the theology of ID.  Is the standard model really superior to dispensational millenarianism?  Both explain the past, affect the present, predict the future (to various degrees); both are ideologies.

We can turn to the idea of refutability.  Science searches for different ideologies, is built upon the destruction of old theories in the creation of new ones; it is a phoenix.  Religions are like glasses - people try not to break them, we get very protective.  Scientific theories have the same adherents, but I think there is a difference in temperament.  Science talks in theories, religions in truths.  When have scientists burned each other for rival theories, despite the arrogance of scientists upon occasions, and despite the fact that religions are just as divided and diverse as science - perhaps more so.  What constitutes the difference here?

Perhaps it's the sense of progression.  Science looks like it's getting somewhere, "silently her shining bounds increase" actually seems accurate in this case.  Can the same be said for religions?  Can we see a progression in the Abramaic religions for example - the sky god of Judaism, the love god of Christianity, the law god of Islam?  Does the last one work better than the first one?  Is Scientology better?  Is that like comparing Dawinian evolution and quantum mechanics?

I've asked a lot of questions, and I can't really say I've got answers.  I think evolution is better that ID, but I can't properly rationalise that feeling.  It's the faith of religions, the lack of doubt, which I see as a dangerous arrogance.  Science can have a kind arrogance - ahem, Dawkins - but it's superficial.  The doubt goes all the way down with science, for me anyway, whereas the doubts of religion never go satisfactorally deep.  ID is shallow, and to justify teaching it as an aid to scientific thinking is ridiculous.

DocDaneeka

Science requires evidence, God bothering does not.

hulahoops

Exactly.  Science is a search for the "laws of the universe" based on the creation of theories and testing evidence to see if those theories are supportable.  

ID seems to be an anti-science, saying "the world is too complicated for us to figure out and therefore there must be God," where science says "the world is very complicated, and maybe we won't ever figure it out, but we're going to try."  

I live in Pennsylvania.  We've finally managed to do something right.  Though I agree that it's very doubtful such a case would have the same outcome in places like Missouri or Alabama.

ziggy starbucks

I think there must be a god, only he could have put the word 'intelligent' in the name of such a utterly brainless and ill conceived concept as 'intelligent design'.

Cerys

Some evangelist twerp just appeared on News 24 telling the people of Dover, PA that if anything nasty happens to their town they shouldn't turn to God, since because they've rejected him, he's going to reject them.  It's one of those times when I hope that God does exist, if only so that when this sanctimonious little cunt dies he can be told by the deity exactly why he's an arrogant, deluded fucktard who's going to be in the next consignment of flame-food.

Dusty Gozongas

Good news on the surface but it won't rid the US of a huge number of people who believe we're living in the end of days, according to God's plan, amen.  I'm still as scared as I was yesterday that there might be a few of these folk in government right now.



Pinball

If there is any design going on, it's a pretty abysmal one. God is incompetent, as well as a cruel sadistic motherfucker. If he existed, which he doesn't of course. The sooner religion shrivels up and dies, and leaves us all the Hell alone, the better.

Do they teach RE in US schools then? Sounds like they don't. I wish the UK would follow suit and ban religion from schools, particularly where it's most malignant and all-embracing as in Muslim faith schools.

Jemble Fred

I need a mood boost, so I'm just going to have to ignore all the caveats and quite correct reservations and look on this as A Wonderful Thing which has refilled my cup of the milkshake of human kindness.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: "Pinball"

Do they teach RE in US schools then? Sounds like they don't. I wish the UK would follow suit and ban religion from schools, particularly where it's most malignant and all-embracing as in Muslim faith schools.

Nope, religion isn't allowed in US public schools (ie: comprehensive schools) at all. My wife was gobsmacked when I told her that in England we have Christian prayer and hymns, and even more gobsmacked when I told her that those who didn't want to participate in those things had to sit outside the assembly hall.
That would be a lawsuit waiting to happen in the US.

Pinball

Quote from: "God"I designed evolution
Impossible. I'd love to see the maths equation for that!

Blumf

Quote from: "The Unicorn"Nope, religion isn't allowed in US public schools (ie: comprehensive schools) at all.

Do they have basic lessons on religions in general? Stuff showing the variety of faiths about the world and all that?

Blumf

Quote from: "Pinball"
Quote from: "God"I designed evolution
Impossible. I'd love to see the maths equation for that!

2 + 2 = 5

Jemble Fred


El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: "Blumf"
Quote from: "The Unicorn"Nope, religion isn't allowed in US public schools (ie: comprehensive schools) at all.

Do they have basic lessons on religions in general? Stuff showing the variety of faiths about the world and all that?

I don't think so, although they probably mention some stuff in History lessons

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: "Jemble Fred"And what about Geography?

This is all they need to learn:


Pinball

And just 200 years of history too. No wonder Bush is such an ignorant fucker.

mayer

As opposed to the massive amount of history I learned at my comprehensive schools as a kid in England.

Tudors and Stewarts when I was a nipper.

Then WWII, the Second World War, the Great War (not forgetting how its end was one of the causes of WWII), the Russian Revolution (and its effects on WWII), the Great Depression (as a cause of the Second World War), and the Cold War (as it grew out of WWII).

hulahoops

There isn't Religious Education in public schools (that'd be state-supported schools), it isn't allowed, but my public school did teach us about world religious - Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, mostly - as part of World Cultures, or whatever it was called, during which we also did  Geography.  I was taught to memorise the location on a map and capital of every country in the world.  

I also did lots of history - Ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome, Russia, and European History from about the Englightenment, maybe before.  

This was all standard for everyone in the school, except for the European History part, which I chose when I was at the equivalent of A-Level.  

That said, the standard varies wildly between school districts, and when I went to university I was shocked to find that there were people who had never done any history other than American History in high school.  

Then again, I was more recently shocked to discover that as much as British schools teach about kings and queens and whatnot, there is no compulsory education on how your government works today.

Evil Knevil

Quote from: "The Unicorn"
Quote from: "Jemble Fred"And what about Geography?

This is all they need to learn:

(picture)

Why the hell is Iowa in two different colours?

Also, history is so politicised in schools that I don't think it should be taught at all.

Abbatoir worker

Quote from: "hulahoops"

I live in Pennsylvania.  We've finally managed to do something right.  

Please shake several people by the hand for me.

I'm still going with my Spaghetti nativity tho.

mayer

Quote from: "Evil Knevil"
Also, history is so politicised in schools that I don't think it should be taught at all.

History is politicised by its very nature.

Evil Knevil

Quote from: "mayer"
Quote from: "Evil Knevil"
Also, history is so politicised in schools that I don't think it should be taught at all.

History is politicised by its very nature.

ergo, we shouldn't teach it, except to rational consenting adults :P

Hoogstraten'sSmilingUlcer

Cerys wrote:

QuoteSome evangelist twerp just appeared on News 24 telling the people of Dover, PA that if anything nasty happens to their town they shouldn't turn to God, since because they've rejected him, he's going to reject them

I saw that; it was Pat Robertson, I think. A man who not only has a special relationship with Gawd, but can also trace his family tree back to 'the kings of England and two American Presidents' no less. Also, for a man who presumably is rather looking forward to taking up his place on the right hand side of God, he seems to want to put the day off that little bit more:


QuotePat's Age-Defying Antioxidants

Where does Pat Robertson get the powerhouse energy to do the things he loves and keep up with his day to day tasks?

Pat's secret to keeping his energy high comes from taking his age-defying protein shake and his age-defying antioxidants.

Discover the secrets to vibrant living in Pat's Age-Defying Antioxidants booklet and learn how you can:

Increase your energy and well-being
Resist infection and disease
Accelerate healing and reduce bruising
Reduce aging and wrinkles
And promote weight-loss and burn fat.

Jesus must be so proud.