We're lazy students sitting on our arses. Maybe we should get off them this week and write that comedy....

[lankinpark]

I do want to focus on a central narrative myself because I think it'll be the most coherent way to do it for radio. Plus ending with a meet when the other episode have been set on a forum is a really bold thing to do and I'm sure it can work, because it's not only the culmination of the story, it's transposing the group dynamic from the internet forum to real life. I can understand your comments though- it would need to be very carefully managed.

Personally speaking, if I'd listened to 2 1/2 hours of comedy over five weeks, and then the format changed completely for the last episode, and it didn't work, I'd be thoroughly pissed off. If it worked, of course, I'd be dead chuffed. But I'd still feel like I'd lost what made it funny in the first place. It would be a different show.

Which is why I'd go with the meet 'n' flashbacks idea. You could still have "He'd out argued me for two-hours solid, so I was quite happy end the day by telling him to 'fuck off.'", but in the context of a three minute flashback sketch when the narrator first claps eyes on/is introduced to his arch-nemesis. Followed by a real life meeting between the two which could comically confirm or undermine the online relationship they have.

Basically, we've got two shows here - forum interaction and real-life interaction.I'd rather combine the two and have a more varied show than run five full episodes of one followed by one episode of the other.

[Marv Orange]

That wouldn't be an issue I don't think. A main character could say "I'd just gone to the loo and come back upstairs when he replied.."

Thats cool but that could get a bit tedious.


Also what would the forum be about?

[Sexton Brackets Drugbust]

How about this? I've just had a great idea!
Each episode is narrated by a different person, all regulars on the forum. That way we could have an episode with the moderator which is a one-off. It won't get boring but it can be a particular highligh, in addition to the meet episode!

That we we could still have the layered narrative but bring it on a whole new level. And then by the end we've got these well rounded characters in our heads.

Then each episode title could come from the regular character.  It would certainly allow the audience to get a better understanding of them all, as well as making the transition to the final meet smoother.

[ffogems]

But you'd know more about the characters if you saw/heard their life away from the forum. You'd be able to then compare their online personas with their 'real-life' personas throughout the whole series, rather than wait until the end to make comparisons.
(this isn't in response to anyone in particular)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

That could actually be a terrific idea for a second series (Not that I'm getting ahead of myself). The meet could act as a synapse between the two series, and the 2nd series could have the flashbacks, as the characters react on the forum with knowledge of how they are in real life.

Thing is, I do like the idea but I also want to do the idea of having a continuing story around say 6 main characters, and whats going on in their individual lives as the series progress, as well as their interaction on the forum.

There really is a tremendous potential for this.

[Marv Orange]

But you'd know more about the characters if you saw/heard their life away from the forum. You'd be able to then compare their online personas with their 'real-life' personas throughout the whole series, rather than wait until the end to make comparisons.
(this isn't in response to anyone in particular)

I was thinking about this as well, its very 15 stories high-esque, which is no bad thing.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Also what would the forum be about?

We will get to that at some stage, I promise :-)

Then each episode title could come from the regular character. It would certainly allow the audience to get a better understanding of them all, as well as making the transition to the final meet smoother.

I think you've nailed it Sexton. That way we could see these different peoples lives, and have the benefit of a short narration Stephen Fry-esque piece with each episode.

I'm madly keen on the idea of having the moderator for one episode, just when the audience aren't expecting it. Episode 4 or one like that. He could have a Mark Heap style personality.

[lankinpark]

Thats cool but that could get a bit tedious.

That's my issue with the whole thing, really. Half an hour of broken interaction between characters could end up very slow, and end up dulling the quality of the actual comedy.

I'm hard-pushed to think of a great comedy show where the highlight wasn't the direct interaction between the characters. We've lost that with the forum structure. No banter. It's more a series of short monologues referring to each other.

[Sexton Brackets Drugbust]

If the stories are told from different characters POV you'd be able to include little clues about the 'real' them throughout their episode.  Say, background noises, what you heard them eating/drinking, who they lived with etc.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

But you'd know more about the characters if you saw/heard their life away from the forum. You'd be able to then compare their online personas with their 'real-life' personas throughout the whole series, rather than wait until the end to make comparisons.
(this isn't in response to anyone in particular

With the idea of each episode being narrated by a different person you can see their lives individually. So as not to complicate things I don't want to have them interacting with characters in the outside world too much- maybe shouting at a husband to pick up the phone?

This idea can build up the characters and their seperate existences whilst seeing their interaction with each other on the forum. If one of them is always eating you could have an episode where they're constantly fetching food, and then the next episode you can tie that character trait up for one of his posts. "Character X said he'd go to the fridge so I rapped my knuckles on the desk and waited for him to reply."

[lankinpark]

I'm thinking the forum idea is probably more suited to a book (or even a website) than the radio. It's possible to approximate the situation using only audio, but it seems a little pointless when you can exactly achieve the effect using the written word.

[Marv Orange]

I'm hard-pushed to think of a great comedy show where the highlight wasn't the direct interaction between the characters. We've lost that with the forum structure. No banter. It's more a series of short monologues referring to each other.

Well there is banter in a forum to be honest, the back and forth of posts.
------------

e.g You are a cunt

No i'm not you a wevil dicked idot

No i'm not

-----------
Ahhh well you get the idea.

[Robot DeNiro]

Maybe the narrator could read out the poster's names before they say anything, and all the quirky internet things, like 'colon dash bracket' and 'italics.'

Maybe that's a shit idea.

I think it's a good idea, you have a voice that reads out the name of the person posting, highlights the start of a quote, says when a post has been edited or moderated and announces when someone has received a PM.  Basically the voice of the board - all the bits that are not typed by a person sitting at home.

If you make the narrator a real person, then you have problems about their perspective - how do they know what's going on?  and how do you give them lines that aren't just "and then john said xyz".  

Sorry, I don't see the point of the narrator myself - one of the golden rules of any writing is "Show, don't tell".  You should be able to make it clear what is going on through well written dialogue, without relying on a narrator.

Lankinpark is right to be concerned about the change in format for the last episode, and it is also going to make the show much harder to sell.  The meet episode would be so totally different to what had gone before that it might as well be a different programme.  Can you think of shows which have changed the dynamics of their format to this extent - I can think of two: delboy becoming a millionaire and the film of Are You Being Served when they all went on holiday to Spain.  Not great.  

I think it would be more interesting to end with an episode set within a meet thread (before and after the meet of course).

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Half an hour of broken interaction between characters could end up very slow, and end up dulling the quality of the actual comedy.

This issue could really be solved with each episode being around a character. whichever character whose episode it is.

Plus with members that don't feature prominently, you could have a conversation and leave about half a second of silence between each 'post' and it will still feel natural on radio. If it's an unfamiliar voice to the listener they'll assume that it's a one-off character.

[Marv Orange]

I'm thinking the forum idea is probably more suited to a book (or even a website) than the radio. It's possible to approximate the situation using only audio, but it seems a little pointless when you can exactly achieve the effect using the written word.

I like the radio idea, you have a verbal compotent, that allows for timing jokes and the such, which I dont think you can get from the written word.

Anyway who reads books any more, get with the program grandad.

Althougth before i raead the first post in this thread i was thinking more along the lines of TV.

[lankinpark]

Well there is banter in a forum to be honest, the back and forth of posts.
------------

e.g You are a cunt

No i'm not you a wevil dicked idot

No i'm not

-----------
Ahhh well you get the idea.

But the spontaneity of that (which works well onscreen, when quotes can be used to mock up a direct conversation) will be lost on radio. The quotes will have to be cut down, otherwise we'll waste time with repetition, and the immediate impact of the response will be lost because Stephen Fry has to announce the poster's name.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I'm thinking the forum idea is probably more suited to a book (or even a website) than the radio. It's possible to approximate the situation using only audio, but it seems a little pointless when you can exactly achieve the effect using the written word.

The trouble is books and the internet are the only mediums which currently have forum parodies.

Plus with radio you can deliver lines which are laugh-out-loud funny, and are of a quality higher than any authorial voice you get from a book.

[ffogems]

Sorry, I don't see the point of the narrator myself - one of the golden rules of any writing is "Show, don't tell". You should be able to make it clear what is going on through well written dialogue, without relying on a narrator.

I think there has to be clarity for those unfamilar with forums, otherwise it just becomes another radio 4 comedy-drama series with bumptious characters arguing over nonsense in coffee shops, with those horrible fade-ins and outs between scenes.
I think it needs some oddities.

[lankinpark]

Anyway who reads books any more, get with the program grandad.

winking smiley.

If we're talking "with the programme", where's the sense in using an old communications system to ape a new one?

I'd set up an actual forum, then post all the pre-scripted material to it and leave it to fester as an online work of art. Or do it as a Yahoo group. Otherwise it's like playing Gary Numan songs on a lyre. Without the excuse that you're trying to come at it from a new angle.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The point is, the narrator will be a character in the story. Plus the whole thing won't be narrated- there will be natural dialogue between the main character and there will be the posts of other people being read aloud by there characters.

I don't think the audience need to know the time between the posts in a topic, and it can be done like a proper conversation (no interruptions, obviously).

Shoulders stomach
Mr analytical
Total nightmare (head script)
Ffogems
Sexton brackets drugbust
Ja' moke
Lookalike mark chapman
Marv orange
Lankinpark
Robot deniro (script)
Lee
Neveragain
Jim Shazaam

That's just to remind me. ;-)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

where's the sense in using an old communications system to ape a new one?

It's hardly the curx of the program. All this show is, is a comedy for radio set on an internet forum, centering on the everyday lives of 5/6 regular members. A premise that seems suited to radio in my opinion.

[Sexton Brackets Drugbust]

You could have that episodes main character - with his/her appropriate background noises and atmosphere - interacting with the other posters voices as if they were people in that room.

That character would then be a kind of 'host' for that episode.

This will mean that the characters will seem more familiar should the meet up come about.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I'm not sure about that. I'd rather the meet to be clear from the rest of the show. Plus I don't think people having a real conversation but talking as if they're reciting their posts on the internet is a good idea.

I think you can narrate through the main character and put some distance between them and the other characters on the internet. That way you'll get the idea they're sat at a computer screen looking for someone to entertain them.

[lankinpark]

The trouble is books and the internet are the only mediums which currently have forum parodies.

Well, I'd say there was a good reason for that. Internet forum communication is adapted for the medium. It's entirely text based, and relies on repetition and adaptation of what people have previously said. The nuances come from textual emphasis (bold, italic, caps, etc.). By its very nature it only really works when it's written down.

Plus with radio you can deliver lines which are laugh-out-loud funny, and are of a quality higher than any authorial voice you get from a book.

I don't know about that. Plenty of people spit coffee over their keyboards over one-liners here, why would a book be any different?

(thinking about it though, a book's not the right format either - too linear)

[ffogems]

I think that we have to appoint a chief promptly to sift through all this good shit and make a decision, otherwise we'll be deliberating until the cows come home and eat the members of the forum and then fly off into space back to Cowland or some other wacky tedium that comes from too much delay.

As an aside, I've been reading Outpost Gallifrey's criticism of the Tumblies and I think there should be a rivalry between the forum and another.

[lankinpark]

By the way, I'm not trying to piss on your idea here. If that show came on tomorrow I'd listen to it, and the format wouldn't spoil my enjoyment.

But if I was writing it, I wouldn't do it that way.

[Marv Orange]

The nuances come from textual emphasis (bold, italic, caps, etc.). By its very nature it only really works when it's written down.

But bold, italic and caps can be translated quite easily in to audio. I'm mean bold, italic and caps are used to ape audio nuances in the first place.

[Marv Orange]

Its all good larkin as it raises issues and ideas we should be thinking about anyway.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The rivalry between forums thing is a good idea. Not to base a series around but it could provide excellent material. You could have a group from one forum come over to cause trouble.

Of course the forum would then have to be about something for which there is competition for. I can't imagine much forum hijacking of a Shell Optimax vs. Mobil Oil rivalry. The forum's got to be about something in particular but through human nature that's got lost and doesn't constitute the majority of the discussion.

I think we are getting somewhere though. There isn't a deadline or anything so there's no pressure to discuss it all tonight. The discussions already brought up ideas that I'm really keen to implement so thanks and keep them coming.

I'm quite happy for the discussion to continue for a while and I think we'll end up naturally (not without a big of to-ing and fro-ing) deciding on the best course of action. I think after a while when people get used to an idea being used they can help with ideas for that, even if it wasn't originally what they had their heart set on. If not I'll put my foot down and be Charlie Higson for a while.

[Robot DeNiro]

there will be natural dialogue between the main character and there will be the posts of other people being read aloud by there characters.

natural dialogue between the main character and who?  People who aren't on the board?  I still don't understand what the narrator will be saying.  If he is telling what he thinks and feels, that can be expressed through his posts.  If he is telling us that he went to the toilet between posts that is going to get very dull.  If he is going to talk about his life outside the board that is going to change the whole focus of the show.  Someone suggested that the show could be about the contrast between real life and board personnas - is that the point of the narrator?  If so you are going to have to hear characters who are not forum members, and then it becomes a normal sitcom, but some of the time the hero visits a messageboard.  

I still think stick with just the board - it's simpler and imposing limits often helps the creative process.  'Cheers' was never as good when they left the bar.

I'm going to duck out of the discussions at this point, although I'll continue to follow this thread.  To be honest I think you are in danger of having too many cooks.  Perhaps three or four people should decide on the style of the show and the rules of the format, and then open things up again for other people to contribute ideas for characters.  I'm still happy to read anything that you come up with, at any point in the process.