Living without alcohol

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

There's a difference between asking a question why they don't drink and expecting them to justify why they don't drink. I don't see what's wrong with asking the question if they say "oh I don't drink", so stop making out I'm some fucking alcohol inquisitor.

[Captain Crunch]

Conversely, I attempted to jump off the wagon a while back.  I had fantastic expectations of charging into the 'Fox swinging a bottle of Jack and offering everyone out for a mass brawl / gropefest but failed miserably.  Now I'll never be able to recapture the allure of having black vomit stuck in my nose all morning, an empty wallet and an overwhelming urge to go and live in an underpass.  No great loss.

One minor point that may have been overlooked so far is the awkwardness drinkers feel around non-drinkers.  I can't explain in much depth because I've always been on the other side but there is sometimes a fair bit of twitching and shiftiness when drinkers have to spend time with non-drinkers.

[Mr. Analytical]

The feeling's mutual.  I feel incredibly uncomfortable around people when they're drunk.  I become incredibly intolerant and impatient too, but that's because of my reasons for not drinking.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I suppose the awkwardness depends on the intent of the majority of people going out. Whether it's to hit the town hard, or have a sit down and a chat and take things a bit slower. I suppose seeing that everyone else around you is a bit pissed encourages you to loosen up a bit. My brothers virtually given up in order to save money and help lose weight, and he's noticed some of his friends acting as if he isn't ' joining in the fun' anymore. If it feels that awkward, you probably aren't that good friends with them anyway.

[SweetRosalyn]

The only awkwardness I feel with non-drinkers when I'm drinking is over the fact that I'm acting like a tit, but they aren't, *and* they're going to remember it in the morning.  Whereas if they're drinking too, we can both embarrass ourselves a bit, and neither remember it (at least not too clearly) in the morning, so it's all fine.  

Or the fact that I might be irritating them/embarrassing myself, and not be able to tell, because I'm too drunk to pick up on the signals, and I'll figure it out the next day and feel dreadful about it.  

When I'm sober I usually quite enjoy hanging out with drunk people, so long as they're not absolutely smashed, but sometimes it can be a little boring, when they get hooked on a subject and get very repetitive, or start laughing hysterically over things that just aren't funny.  Usually they just loosen up and are pretty fun to be around, or they get very talkative and you can have wonderful - often extremely truthful -  conversations with them.

[Banana Woofwoof]

I've just been reminded of something I do when I'm blind drunk (like having absinthe on Saturday)- I tell outrageous lies.  But I have no idea I am doing so and no recollection, either.

God knows what shite I've told people and I don't remember.

[Banana Woofwoof]

Actually, I have been forced to remember but it's okay, I've been told it's manic delusions rather than anything else.  I just don't remember them cos I'm drunk. Hurrah.

I really have to give up drinking now and unlike before, when it was a choice, I am feeling sort of nervous about it.  Not nervous, but, well, angry.  I went to a pub quiz and we won a bit bottle of champagne.  Everyone was clinking glasses and I miserably clinked my little diet coke.  I guess I'll get used to it.

I am going to go to a VW meet and not drink.  Stupid as it sounds, it's a challenge for me as they make me so nervous, I have to lay into the drink to get over my nerves.  But I inevitaly embarass myself so it all starts again.

How are our non-drinkers doing now? butnut?

[gazzyk1ns]

Something you often hear from happy teetotallers is "I have plenty of great nights out without booze, and I cringe when I think back to those nights which booze directed down a regrettable path.". I assume there are some people here who would say that. My question to you is, whilst thinking about your position regarding personal alcohol consumption, do you ever think back to those nights out you had as a drinker, where a lack of alcohol would have meant that they weren't anywhere near as enjoyable and memorable as they were? And do you ever think about those bad/boring, or even just "mediocre" nights out you now have as a teetotaller, and wonder if they'd have been better if you were up for a drink or two?

Now, that does assume two things - 1) You had some great nights out whilst drinking, and 2) As a teetotaller, you have some bad/boring/mediocre nights out (though if your life really is totally deviod of dull or completely forgettable social occasions, please tell me your secret...). Also, please don't think I'm trying to prove something, or "win" an argument; I just got thinking about this the other day, and it does seem that a lot of teetotallers might not be thinking about the situation with a fair amount of balance. It seems as if there is a bias in the avoidance of thinking or talking about the positive experiences they have had whilst consuming alcohol.

Of course, if someone is happily teetotal then that's justification in itself to not change anything. But there is a possibility that their new found happiness might not be directly related to a lack of alcohol; or rather, maybe they just needed to discipline themselves more and drink less, and/or drink on fewer occasions. If it was me then I can't see how I wouldn't be curious... no, eager to see if that was the case.

I do realise that this wouldn't apply to someone who has developed a chronic problem with alcohol, and I'm perfectly willing to accept that alcohol simply isn't for some people. Although that (the latter) doesn't really apply to the specific point I'm trying to make, as I pointed out at the start, I'm referring to people who have enjoyed drinking in the past.

[butnut]

My question to you is, whilst thinking about your position regarding personal alcohol consumption, do you ever think back to those nights out you had as a drinker, where a lack of alcohol would have meant that they weren't anywhere near as enjoyable and memorable as they were? And do you ever think about those bad/boring, or even just "mediocre" nights out you now have as a teetotaller, and wonder if they'd have been better if you were up for a drink or two?

Hello Gareth.

Yes, I do sometimes think back, and I do think about the good times I had whilst drinking. And some of the most fun things I've ever done happened while drunk. And of course they wouldn't have been anywhere near the same had I been sober. And there are the odd nights recently where I might have enjoyed it more had I been drunk. There have also been some that would have been much worse had I been drinking.

As for the whole moderation and control thing, I just don't trust myself. Someone here posted something about not drinking at all being easier than drinking a little. Well, perhaps it's true. But I'd rather be a sober wimp than a drinking strong man at the moment. I might be able to do the moderate drinking thing for a maybe a week or two, but then I'd be quickly back to the binge sessions again.

The strange thing, and this happened to me a few weeks ago, was that there have been situations where I think "had I been drunk, so and so could have happened." I was at some do, and there was a quite drunk girl there who seemed to be acting quite friendly, and I thought "if I was drunk, I'd certainly have tried it on with her" but as a sober person, I didn't find her really attractive enough or really be 'on her level' enough. So nothing happened at all.  And rather than waking up the next morning with regrets and/or a sweaty awkwardness next to me, I did the mental equivalent of shrugging my shoulders.

The way I see it is that I've cut out some highs from my life by not drinking, but I've also cut out a hell of a lot of lows: all those horrible nightbus journeys alone at 2am, getting so pissed I couldn't remember a Test match etc etc. And to me, at the moment. that seems a fair exchange. I take your point about thinking too much about the bad sides, but I just got so sick of it all, I felt like a weight had been lifted off me when I stopped and I rather like that feeling.

[gazzyk1ns]

Thanks for the reply, Luke.

As for the whole moderation and control thing, I just don't trust myself.

Heh, same here, I should have commented about that. I suppose I've been lucky, whenever I've been boozing to a significant degree it's been contained to binging at the weekend, because the week is for running. It was a lot easier to focus on running and discipline myself that way before I solely did gardening work though; recently I've lost count of the amount of days I've got to 8pm and thought "A run... tonight? Bah, I've had my exercise for today.", and then inevitably finding an excuse to relax with a few cans. It's unusual for a person to run mostly in the evening or at night but I'm bloody glad I do, if I ran in the mornings then by the time I might be tempted to have a beer, the "You're suppsed to be a regular runner, not a layabout with a can of Stella." attitude would have left me hours beforehand.

The strange thing, and this happened to me a few weeks ago, was that there have been situations where I think "had I been drunk, so and so could have happened." I was at some do, and there was a quite drunk girl there who seemed to be acting quite friendly, and I thought "if I was drunk, I'd certainly have tried it on with her" but as a sober person, I didn't find her really attractive enough or really be 'on her level' enough. So nothing happened at all. And rather than waking up the next morning with regrets and/or a sweaty awkwardness next to me, I did the mental equivalent of shrugging my shoulders.

Reading that specific example, I'm in little doubt that not drinking lead to the preferable course of action. But to address the general point there, I think all of us may assess situations whilst sober and think "No way.", whereas we'd have sampled another piece of life's rich tapestry (erm, to be clear, I'm not just talking about pissed-up shagging here, of course!) had we been under the influence. It's a bit of a dangerous thing to say, so imagine this sentence is a million disclaimers which acknowledge the pitfalls of making decisions whilst drunk; but the sober decision won't necessarily lead to the preferable consequences. I nearly rambled on about it being "healthy to let yourself go now and then" but that sounds really wanky and you can do that without booze anyway and I'm too fed up with the sound of my own typing to even create proper sentences now so I'll just stop typing and press submit.

[butnut]

but the sober decision won't necessarily lead to the preferable consequences.

That's very true, Gareth.  I  suppose the obvious response is to say that a drunken decision won't necessarily lead to preferable consequences either. But then we'll get into a circular argument, which certainly isn't a preferable consequence.

You hint at having some structure in your life to help and that's a good point. If I had something approaching regular 9-5 work then it would probably be easier to drink in moderation sometimes. Although, having seen the state of some people in the city on week nights, I'm not sure that always applies.

[gazzyk1ns]

You hint at having some structure in your life

I recognise and accept your point, Luke, but this comment makes me laugh.

[butnut]

I'm so pleased that I could provide some entertainment to you Gareth, even at this late hour.

[imitationleather]

Group hug, Luke and Gareth?

[butnut]

Elliot, that sounds a little something that's come from across the Atlantic. I think a gentlemanly handshake is more fitting.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Heh, same here, I should have commented about that. I suppose I've been lucky, whenever I've been boozing to a significant degree it's been contained to binging at the weekend, because the week is for running.

Well by definition binging is contained to a certain time frame. If you do it every day it's not binging, it's a habit.

[gazzyk1ns]

I do have a (mundane) reply for you, but I'm not sure it would be right to post it because I don't know your real first name. If you were to modify your location so that I might be enlightened, on the other hand...

[The Boston Crab]

His name is Alex, I'm a number.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Woooooo creepy. Are you Jonathan Cainer or something?

[The Boston Crab]

It was either Alex, Alan or Alastair (plus assorted spellings).

I'm a good guesser.

[oo-ee-ooo-dur-dur-dur-etc.]

[gazzyk1ns]

Well Alex, my reply is that I didn't mean to imply that the sort of "happy teetotallers" I was talking about had a habit which involved drinking every day. I'm not sure whether you can really define a "habit" here though; a habit could surely be boozing heavily whenever the opportunity arises, such as at a weekend or whenever you don't have work or some other sort of commitment to satisfy. I don't know, as I hope came across, my post was based on musings about personal experience/tendencies (of people I have known, as well as my own).