Commission only "Account Manager" jobs

[Adrian Brezhnev]

Whenever I am out of work and job hunting (like I am at the moment), I am often intrigued by advertisments in the local and national press offering fantastical OTE (on target earnings) incomes.

And a couple of times, I've applied. I went to one this morning, as it happens. "Realistic earnings in excess of £70k, and a self-employed basis" I was told. I'm always a little wary when I am granted an  interview without the firm seeing my CV first, but I thought I'd try it out anyway. I arrived at the office, which was a shabby little place at the back of a building on a trading estate in a particularly dull town. Something just didn't seem quite right.

I was shown what they do, how good the earnings are (apparently tending to be even better than the originally quoted £70k), and it all sounded quite convincing. But maybe that's because it's all too good to be true and because I'm gullible.

If I am offered a position, I attend a five day training course in London. The person I was interviewed by said that the company invests heavily in training and development, but told me that I'd have to pay for my own travel up there and the hotel accommodation.

That caused me some concern- if this is a company that is generating extraordinary amounts of money, why can it not pay for hotel accommodation for new recruits?

It's not disimilar to a job interview I went for last year, which was advertised in the Sunday Times- an opportunity to sell financial products to wealthy expats in 22 different locations around the world... "for those unfazed by earnings in excess of £130k".

What concerned me with this one was if this is such an incredible opportunity, how come it is advertised every single week in The Sunday Times?

Anyway, I went to the interview, which in reality was a talk given in a conference centre at Heathrow by a very slick sales manager about how wonderful it is to earn £150-£750k, and how it all starts with a week's training in Monaco, all expenses and hotel accommodation paid for- except I have to pay for the plane ticket to get there. Again, why can't they afford the plane fare for new recruits?

The second interview was a proper interview, where I did a psychometric test, which sadly found that I am too "nice" to be a high achieving salesman.

So- has anyone else gone for jobs like this... and taken them on?

[Orias]

Ryanair - 5p to Toulon

Our new Stansted to Toulon route commencing 23rd September is sure to be a big hit. Toulon is just 2 hours flight from London Stansted and has the French Riviera: St Tropez, Cannes, Antibes, Nice and Monaco all within easy reach

Go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Johnny Yesno]

Not the same but similar:

I once went for a job going door to door in order to get people to change their gas supplier. It was an OTE arrangement with a company who would go door to door for any business that would pay them. Their offices were painted white and had no furnishings apart from a desk and the odd company poster. At the interview I was told how much I could earn and how I could improve my earnings by recruiting other people, eventually reaching the dizzy heights of my interviewer - I'd never heard of pyramid selling at this point but it all seemed a bit shonky even then.

I decided to give it a go and had a two-day trial shadowing an existing employee. In the morning we had to meet up with all the other salesmen and be given a motivational speech where everyone psyched themselves up for selling by whooping and such like. I found that a bit spooky because it felt like some kind of cult.

The going from door to door wasn't too bad as the weather was okay and the gas supplier was a wholesaler offering genuinely cheaper prices. However, the employee I was with was getting a bit dispirited by the lack of positive responses. At one house we ended up getting a kid to explain to his non-English speaking parents what a good idea changing gas supplier was and they signed up. The employee clearly hated doing that but he needed the money.

At the end of the two days I asked him if he'd do that job if he was eligible for the dole like I was at that time and he admitted he wouldn't. That was pretty good of him as recruiting someone else would've improved his prospects slightly.

I heard later that this company in a former incarnation had been in trouble for high-pressure sales tactics. I'm so glad I didn't sign up in the end.

[Johnny Yesno]

Ryanair - 5p to Toulon
Go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may be herded on board by staff that know only slightly more about air safety than you and have to sit in someone else's vomit for the journey.

[Pienaar]

mispost

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

That's wrong. Can a Pienaar mispost?

[Adrian Brezhnev]

And what did you mean to post, Pienaar?

It was an OTE arrangement with a company who would go door to door for any business that would pay them. Their offices were painted white and had no furnishings apart from a desk and the odd company poster. At the interview I was told how much I could earn and how I could improve my earnings by recruiting other people, eventually reaching the dizzy heights of my interviewer.

Ah, yes, I think I've been for that job too- they must have these operations all over the country, and the office was exactly as you described.

The "Regional Manager", who wore a particularly poor fake "designer" suit, went on and on about how incredibly successful he was, and how I could too, but it simply did not have the ring of truth to it. He boasted that the company "promotes people at seven times the national average", whatever the heck that means.

In the morning we had to meet up with all the other salesmen and be given a motivational speech where everyone psyched themselves up for selling by whooping and such like. I found that a bit spooky because it felt like some kind of cult.

A friend of mine once went to a presentation about "an amazing business opportunity" where the whole audience was made to repeatedly stand on their chairs, wave their fists in the air, and shout "TOTAL POSITIVITY!" in unison.

[Orias]

Ryanair - 5p to Toulon
Go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may be herded on board by staff that know only slightly more about air safety than you and have to sit in someone else's vomit for the journey.

Granted.  But 5p!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sproggy]

offering fantastical OTE (on target earnings) incomes.

I always thought that was short for Opportunity To Earn.

i.e. you don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of ever earning anything like that unless you mortgage your soul and granny to the devil first.

So- has anyone else gone for jobs like this... and taken them on?

No, not unless you see selling crap to annoyed punters in South Mimms Services car park as a good career move.

[23 Daves]

have a couple of friends who joined these pyramid sales schemes and did OK out of them.  Not brilliantly, but OK - earning more than I do at present, anyway, but then if I had the choice of doing what I do or walking around in the pissing rain banging on doors asking people to sign up for things, I still think I'd rather be a desk monkey and take home a few thousand less per annum.

One of them worked selling cable installations door to door, having his own personal team of chaps, the other doing online sales of computer software (involving spamming a lot, I shouldn't wonder).  I almost signed up for the latter option until I realised what it entailed, and ended up on my friend's mailing list, and had to laugh when I got an email saying "You wouldn't believe how much this has made my dreams come true - right now I'm on a Scottish Island in my own house, looking at astonishing views of the shore.  If you all get going with this scheme, this too could very easily be yours".  He wasn't totally fibbing, of course.  He did live on a Scottish island. It's just he lived in a small farmer's cottage without electricity, gas or any other means of living life the modern way.  If you consider living like Rod Hull post-bankruptcy "all your dreams coming true", then I suppose he may also have had a point there.  Not many people do though, do they?*

I'd say you could make a living out of this sort of thing if you're very confident, incredibly patient and self-motivated (depending entirely on the product, of course) but anyone seriously expecting millions may as well go and do something  like attempting to become a stockbroker or a lawyer.  I'm sure the odds must be shorter that way, and it would probably involve only marginally more work.

And I'm not too sure about this "too nice for sales" stuff.  I've got friends in sales who are perfectly pleasant human beings and very good at their jobs - one is one of the best in his company, for example (that said, he was supposed to meet me for a drink tonight and forgot and ended up staying to drink with his office buddies, so maybe he is a cunt).  You don't have to behave like an utter arsehole all the time just to be good at pushing product, though you probably do need to have a strong personality, confidence and some charisma.  If an unlikable git try to sell me or my partner something, they normally get an arrogant attitude back from us and very short shrift.  If someone a bit quirky and personable does it, I might have a laugh and hear them out.

(*The friend in question made money from having a load of people beneath him in the pyramid at this point, and didn't really need to be online all the time before anyone asks.  He just had a basic spamming thing that he could run from Internet cafes and such - plus he was earning cash winkle picking as well at this point).

[InfiniteFury]

OTEs (and that means On Target Earnings ie. bring in x amount of new (normally) business and we will reward you with x amount bonus - quite simply) are entirely attainable and legitimate if that is your career.  If you are an out of work, job hunting, non-professional candidate who is looking for a quick buck, you will end up with a pyramid scheme. If, on the other hand, it is your career, and you have been an account manager for 10 years, it is perfectly legitimate as would be the case for someone like me.

Like I said, jobs that offer these kind of arrangements to anyone who is "MONEY HUNGRY" "ABC CLOSERS" or "FANS OF GLENGARRY GLEN ROSS" are charlatans and suitable for the kind of pricks who I would cheerfully elimiate from the face of my industry at the click of my fingers if I could. I make my living from OTE payments and a good basic in B2B sales that reflects my skills and professionalism. I'm just tired of that distinction not being made.

[Pinball]

A friend of mine once went to a presentation about "an amazing business opportunity" where the whole audience was made to repeatedly stand on their chairs, wave their fists in the air, and shout "TOTAL POSITIVITY!" in unison.

They should really shout "Desperation and greed!". Now that I would not only watch, but would secretly videotape then release online. A nice little Youtube that would be.

[thomasina]

"FANS OF GLENGARRY GLEN ROSS" .

God, does that ever work as a recruitment device?  Do people watch that film and think 'I wanna sell real estate, I'd get those new leads and beat the ass out of that Jack Lemmon fella'?

[Pinball]

Yes, I felt like a real sucker of Satan's pecker after watching that film, and I'm not even a salesman! Though we are all whores deep down, of course, renting ourselves to the Man, but whatchagonnado?

[thomasina]

I think i'd been out of sales for a while before I saw it, but  it struck bloody deep chords.

[Adrian Brezhnev]

And I'm not too sure about this "too nice for sales" stuff.  I've got friends in sales who are perfectly pleasant human beings and very good at their jobs - one is one of the best in his company

Nor am I- I was just quoting what the man recruiting for the offshore financial products company said, and it was just one of the things he said that I did not take too seriously. I saw him and both the person that gave the presentation as extremely arrogant, and would not want to work with these kind of people anyway.

Sales has been part of my career for years, and being pleasant is vital part of it- if you are going to sell to a prospect, you do need to be able to "make friends" with them first.

[Oscar]

Sales has been part of my career for years, and being pleasant is vital part of it- if you are going to sell to a prospect, you do need to be able to "make friends" with them first.

Selling is not something I know much about (working in a shop doesn't count, right?) and it's something that makes me feel a bit disturbed. But then I bumped into a friend I hadn't seen for ten years, who'd been working as a salesman and he restored some of my faith.
He told me that he had just won the "Car Salesman of the Year" award by selling the most cars in a year. i asked him what his secret was, did he trick people into it? Did he talk fast and confuse them? (He could be quite a charmer) he said no.
"So how did you sell so many cars then?" I asked
"Well, the truth is that I couldn't give a shit about cars. So I just talk to people about their lives, find out the most suitable car for their needs and sell it to them at a good price."
So that was it, the golden technique, be nice to people and sell them the item most useful to them. This sounds more like the reasonabl attitude infintitefury talks about. So is this the way to sell? Or is intimidation and trickery a better method?

[Hypnotoad.]

if this is a company that is generating extraordinary amounts of money, why can it not pay for hotel accommodation for new recruits?

Because this company makes money by selling places on training courses in Monaco

The safest way to a job that pays well is to build a solid career and move up the ladder with each job change

It takes a long time, but then only a mug would believe they could walk into a job paying stupid money

[Bernard]

Adrian, from your initial post it's obvious you know the answers desipte your question marks.

If something really was an excellent offer, out of proportion in the marketplace, they wouldn't need to keep advertising every single week. It's bollocks. Too Good To Be True. If it was genuine the wages would only be about the same as every other vaguely similar sales job.

I wouldn't take the risk of investing my time, effort and possibly money. By not doing so I lose nowt, and my chance of winning is clearly remote anyway. Like the lottery really.

By the way, I thought OTE stood for On Top of Earnings. Eh, that or Over The Edge in sk8er wurld.