'Joe' energy cells?

[Mr Colossal]

I don't know if many people are familar with this, but it's been doing the rounds in environmental circles the last few months now:

http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml

An Australian man, only identified by the name of  Joe "X",  has designed a remarkable water Energy Cell that only utilizes water for a "fuel" and develops substantially more power than gasoline. It was originally designed for use in cars, but it can be used  with almost any engine that normally runs on gasoline such as motorcycles, outboard marine engines, lawn mowers, portable electric generators, etc. The Energy Cell alone provides all the power that the engine needs. After an Energy Cell is installed and functioning properly, the gasoline fuel lines can be completely disconnected.

An engine that operates on Joe's Energy Cell produces no exhaust by-products and no heat. Without any exhaust by-products, you eliminate the need for pollution control devices. Since the engine runs cold, there is no need for a cooling system per se, however, the water in the water jacket surrounding the cylinders may be playing a pivotal role in allowing this phenomena to take place.

Surprisingly, the Energy Cell does not deplete its water while in operation. The water is acting in the role of a catalyst in the transference of a special form of energy from the surrounding atmosphere into the engine and the water itself is not consumed in the process.

From all outward appearances, an engine operating with this cell seems to be functioning on the Implosion principle, a phenomena explored in the writings and patents of inventors Viktor Schauberger, John Keeley, and others.

I've had a search around, and can't seem to find anything that points at it being a hoax, though with responses to skeptics like:

'you are stuck in the quagmire of orthodox physics-and that's the surest route, it seems, to losing any spark of open mindedness or creative insight when it comes to real science-and not the "approved" version of science with which you are most familiar'.

And the fact that its design , like other  ether-born energies, 'has been suppressed by the illuminati'  doesn't   exactly make a convincing argument.  

However, there was apparently a recent joe energy cell convention where you could see joe cell powered vehicles in action, and a book titled 'The Joe Phenomenon' by Barry Hilton has been written on the subject...

 From what i gather it is NOT a hydrogen fuel cell, and relies on implosion as opposed to explosion. There is also no actual opening from the cell to the interior of the carburetor or the intake manifold- The expendable orgone energy is able to pass through and saturate the atoms of the engine's metal and power a car.

So can anybody not stuck in the quagmire of orthodox science, or with any knowledge on the subject wade through the claims and clear anything up about it?

[Shaun]

Sounds like bullshit to me.

[Almost Yearly]

After an Energy Cell is installed and functioning properly, the gasoline fuel lines can be completely disconnected.

But you still have to keep the entire internal combustion engine block, because it's holding the gearbox up?

a special form of energy

:-)

[slim]

I would say that if it existed, we*'d be using it. The fact that patents suppress things in western nations doesn't mean other, poorer countries wouldn't just stick two fingers up and produce it anyway, much like they have with HIV suppressant drugs.


* Y'know, us, the species.

[peet]

"Orgone energy"? What is that, perchance?

WHAT IS ORGONE ENERGY? 1

by Charles R. Kelley

  Franz Anton Mesmer called it animal magnetism; Charles von Reichenbach called it odyle. To Henri Bergson it was the elan vital, the "vital force;" while to Hans Driesch it was the entelechy . Sigmund Freud observed its functioning in human emotions and termed it libido. William MacDougall, the great British - American psychologist of a generation ago, labeled it hormic energy. Dozens, if not hundreds, of lesser - known scientists have recognized its presence and have given it a name to characterize its special properties. Among the 20th-century proponents of the concept are, for example, Doctors Charles Littlefield and his vital magnetism and George Starr White and his cosmo-electric energy . Mechanistic science in the 17th through 19th centuries embraced many of its essential qualities in the concept of the ether, while mystical human beings have embraced other essential qualities of it in the concept of god.

  Orgone energy is Wilhelm Reich's name for the substratum from which all nature is created. The best definition this author can provide for it is this: Orgone energy is the creative force in nature. This article will discuss briefly the history of the discovery of orgone energy by Reich and will describe its properties. It will then summarize the evidence for and against the concept and, finally, will undertake to explain why it is that the concept meets such great resistance.

Ah.

[Almost Yearly]

Libido-powered cars, that's a turnaround.

[slim]

You could organise the traffic so that in front of every sweaty old man in a sports car, there was a pretty young girl in an open topped Suzuki Vitara.

I don't know who you'd put in front of them, though.

[Almost Yearly]

A nice pair of shoes on a fishing rod.

[Dr_Gloryhole]

Sounds too good to be true, a quick google gave loads of results. Many are just copied from the site you linked to, but I also found this

Video

And some construction plans, knowing nothing about physics or engineering these mean nothing to me, but I sure they will to someone on this forum

Picture 1

Picture 2

[Frinky]

There's a lot of stainless steel in there...

[Marv Orange]

no heat, no by-products.... sounds like crap. There has to be something happening. Put energy -> get energy out.


Althougth there was an equinox years ago showing engines that produced more energy than you put in. It worked by pumping a cylinder with holes running through it in a slightly bigger cylinder. Never seen or heard anything about that since.

I also remember seeing a tv news article about a man who had invented something that could recharge normal batteries. (this was on the news after TV-AM back in the eighties). again never heard of this again.

So even if this does work i doubt we will hear anything about it again.

EDIT: after looking at the diagrams it could be something similar to waht i saw inn the Equinox program.

[Blumf]

And some construction plans, knowing nothing about physics or engineering these mean nothing to me, but I sure they will to someone on this forum

Picture 1

Picture 2

Well it looks like they just use electrolysis to separate the hydrogen and oxygen in water then combust it back into water again. In other words it's a closed loop, you couldn't get more energy out of the combustion stage than you'd use in the separation stage. In short, it's bullshit.

[Mr Colossal]

http://www.frank.germano.com/joe_cell.htm



this is a bit more in depth, featuring blueprints etc.     Still it reads like a pyramid scheme, a conspiracy theory  and sci-fi fantasy all roled into one.  Im expecting lizards to turn up any moment.

  1.   As ether, ( Orgone ) has no mass or electric charge it makes it very difficult to measure. If you read about the efforts that science has gone to, to measure gravity waves and neutrinos, you will more fully comprehend the problems of measuring these "forces". Suffice to say that just because scientists cannot measure Orgone energies does not mean that Orgone does not exist.As our Joe cell geometry, chemistry, electrolysis, location, materials and experimenters vary from cell to cell, the Joe cell will thus produces a whole series of different effects for different experimenters.

  2. The cell can lose weight, cause rain, heal people, make people sick, "create" various elements and even do what you want it to do ie. power an internal combustion motor.

EDIT-  it also states that the blueprints posted above by Dr_Gloryhole  are NOT joe cells...

[Mr Colossal]

Well it looks like they just use electrolysis to separate the hydrogen and oxygen in water then combust it back into water again. In other words it's a closed loop, you couldn't get more energy out of the combustion stage than you'd use in the separation stage. In short, it's bullshit.

http://educate-yourself.org/lte/joecellssandelectrolysis25sep05.shtml

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike
To: Editor@educate-yourself.org (Ken Adachi)
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 1:49 AM
Subject: A SAFETY RECOMENDATION, RE "JOES CELL" - please be aware innocent enthusiasts could BLOW THEMSELVES UP

Good Morning Ken

I have just come across your interesting site. May I just offer

A SAFETY RECOMENDATION, RE "JOES CELL" - RISK OF EXPLOSION

I read the Joes' Cell page with interest and, as a professional engineer of 40 years with a Physics background, I can see what is really going on there, and would draw your attention to it - as innocent enthusiasts, building it without an understanding of what's occurring, could risk SERIOUS InJURY. The cell as described, will certainly do something interesting and I am not at all surprised it generates a useable fuel, if built carefully and plumbed into a carbuettor - I'd guess it would alter engine performance quite a bit.

What's really happening (I'm sorry to pour cold water on the 'Orgone energy' idea) is the "Joe Cell" is a perfectly good, but ordinary, Electrolysis Tank. That's all - when you connect it to the battery (either way round in fact) it will electrolyse the water fairly fiercely, yes producing brown sludge (a goo of iron salts, from the steel) and creating a perfectly good fuel.

Unfortunately - that "fuel" IS the 2:1 mix of Hydrogen and Oxygen, which pours off the two plates (H at the Cathode and O at the Anode - the same as in any school phusics lab). THE IMPORTANT PART is that the two gases are allowed to remix. THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS.

Normally, electrolysis systems carefully separate the anode and cathode gas and collect the Hydrogen and Oxygen separately - for safety reasons. In Joes' cell, the two simply remix in the top of the pot, and by description, are drawn off in a single tube. Hydrogen and Oxygen mixed together IS AN EXTREMELY EXPLOSIVE MIXTURE. (It is what fuelled the Saturn V first stage). ONE SPARK COULD IGNITE THE GAS INSIDE THE METAL TANK EXPLOSIVELY, AND THE TANK MAY EXPLODE AND FRAGMENT LIKE A HAND GRENADE. Stainless steel is hard, and sharp.

You mention that "Joe usually mounts the tank in the passenger footwell.." -this is an extrenely dangerous place for a potentially explosive steel can to be - if the tank does blow apart, it could maim or blind someone or possibly even blow a foot off.

THIS REALLY IS NOT SOMETHING FOR THE SCIENTIFICALLY UNTRAINED TO GO BUILDING IN THEIR GARAGE.

I would ask you to put a warning of explove risk on the Joe's Cell page, better still remove it altogether.

By the way nothing is acheived by the cell overall - the 'Orgone' thing is wishful thinking - in truth more energy is consumed in the electrolysis, than can be stored in the released gases, so even though they will burn in the engine, overall in you cannot make enough fuel from the electricity from the motor's generator output to fuel the engine alone - that would be perpetual motion, energy for free, and that really doesn't happen in this universe. Honestly.

I'm sure you'd agree t would be a terrible shame if anyone were injured, when they could have been warned: please add a warning for the unfamiliar.

Thanks for an interesting website, and good luck.

Mike
London, England

----- Original Message -----
From: Editor@educate-yourself.org (Ken Adachi)
To: Mike
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: A SAFETY RECOMENDATION, RE "JOES CELL" - please be aware innocent enthusiasts could BLOW THEMSELVES UP

Hi Mike,

I appreciate your input and your sincerity in writing me. However, your conclusions about the action of the Joe Cell are based entirely on armchair musings and they have no relation to reality whatsoever. Unfortunately, that's the problem with being a "professional" engineer: you are stuck in the quagmire of orthodox physics-and that's the surest route, it seems, to losing any spark of open mindedness or creative insight when it comes to real science-and not the "approved" version of science with which you are most familiar.

When you have it pounded into your head for all the years that you might have attended school that you can't violate this "Law" or that "law" of physics, then you limit your horizons gravely and can only arrive at 'conclusions' that fit within the accepted "laws' that you are now convinced cannot be breeched. You dismiss the entire phenomenon of orgone energy completely and replace it with a child's explanation of simple electrolysis. Wow, have you missed the boat!

Let's review a few things:

1. You have not read my paper carefully. I am not describing ordinary electrolysis. It is IMPOSSIBLE to produce the results I have described concerning the action of the Joe cell in the shop or, more importantly, the action of the cell in powering a car with ordinary electrolysis. Impossible. You don't appreciate what I'm describing because you haven't seen the 5.5 hours of visual data on the two Joe cell video tapes in which you can see Joe perform these experiments in his shop and on the road (of course, obtaining the video tapes and examining the evidence first hand is completely out of the question, I'm sure, considering your 'professional' armchair command position).

2. I explained in my paper that Joe describes THREE different types of gaseous outputs that can be produced by the Joe cell depending on how much CARE was exerted in setting up the cell to function. Two of those gaseous outputs have a low yield, and a moderate yield EXPLOSIVE effect when ignited by a flame. The THIRD gaseous output has an IMPLOSIVE effect when ignited by a flame. It's this THIRD type of gas that is dominated by orgone energy and it is this type of "gas" that is powering the car-not hydrogen or oxygen. The action taking place inside the car's engine is one of IMPLOSION, not explosion as with ordinary gasoline (petrol to you). I had devoted perhaps 1/3 of that paper to explaining many of the unusual phenomenon that is observed here as a result of IMPLOSIVE action and YOU'VE MISSED IT COMPLETELY, being blinded by your "professional", orthodox physics education.

3. When installed in the car, the 12 volt battery is NOT left connected to the cell. There is NO application of DC voltage to the cell after it begins "seeding" and producing the orgone output. The cell is operating FREE of any connection to the battery. The only time a SMALL DC voltage-the voltage of a 1.5 Volt AA battery- is applied to the cell is when using the cell in your car after dark. After the sun goes down, the orgone atmospheric envelope surrounding the car lowers and the cell might not continue to "seed" when it's 2 or 3 AM in the early morning, but beyond that, there is no battery connection in place as the cell functions.

4. Carburetors were designed in the 1930's that used ordinary electrolysis of water and did a fair job of powering a car (the Pogue [sp?} carburetor comes to mind), but that's not what I'm describing here-not by a country mile.

I'm describing an engine that is running on ORGONE energy. The orgone energy is extracted from the surrounding ETHER (yes, I know; the Ether does not exist either, but amuse a doddering fool for another moment or two) and there is NO BREAKDOWN of water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. I stated in my article that the ONLY water loss was slight and that was due to EVAPORATION, not from electrolysis. Joe drove his car-powered exclusively with the Joe cell ( and no gasoline)- from one city in Australia to another city in Australia which covered a distance greater that 400 MILES using a single cell that contained about a quart of water. He did NOT have to replenish any of the water in the cell during that trip. The Joe Cell DOES NOT CONSUME the water. The water acts as an attractor, condenser, and transducing medium for the orgone energy which is contained in the surrounding ether.

I could go on and on about this, but I won't. It's just too annoying. If you want to take off your blinders and start over again and really look into this carefully, fine; if not, that's fine too. It doesn't matter to me whether you become enlightened on this subject or not. It only affects you, not me.

If you can't even take the time to read -and DIGEST properly- the information I've presented in my paper, then you're not much of a "professional" anything. You're just another closed minded, orthodox "professional" bump on the log skeptic who is doing nothing to aid or move humanity forward. And believe me, you've got plenty of company!

So long and GOOD LUCK to you as well.

Regards, Ken
Editor@educate-yourself.org

[Shaun]

The "even do what you want it to do" kind of cinches it, doesn't it?

[Almost Yearly]

"Hello and welcome to That's Amazing, I'm your host Carl Hooper."

I keep expecting a rifle shot, Ken slumping over his pots and pans.

Shame the three sets of pots and pans aren't identical and you can't see him attaching and removing the leads. I think the ball's under the middle one.

17:50 - "...the cell is completely fucking different to the stage two cell..." (ok, it's "frothing")

23:00 - "...I was a little bit disappointing..."

Sorry, I obviously wasn't giving this the serious attention it deserves before. I now understand that the engine block is retained and the existing cylinders continue to function but in reverse, ie: with implosions sucking the pistons up. I worry for the performance of steel piston rods under impulse tension rather than compression, but I guess the orgone energy will reinforce them somehow. The implosions are caused remotely by excess orgone energy which is somehow converted into static electricity and somehow focused and timed in a special way, possibly through the coolant system. I notice stainless steel is utilised liberally in cell construction, so it's probably alright to leave the antifreeze in. I expect it's austenitic stainless steel, so as not to interfere with the magnetic fields which come into it somewhere too. And the medicinal properties will make your journey a healthy one, which is ace.

Still, might be a bit of a bugger to get started on a wintery morning.

There's a lot of stainless steel in there...

Heheh, down boy.

[My Giddy Aunt]

I admire Ken's conviction though, he means it bad.

[sproggy]

Well it looks like they just use electrolysis to separate the hydrogen and oxygen in water then combust it back into water again. In other words it's a closed loop, you couldn't get more energy out of the combustion stage than you'd use in the separation stage. In short, it's bullshit.

I recall many years ago some research that was carried out into water electrolysis.  Instead of using high current DC the electrodes were 'hit' with very high voltage modulated at the resonant frequency of the water molecules.  The resulting effect improved efficiencies enough for BP (allegedly) to buy the patent and make the technology 'disappear'.

Another good idea that seems to have drifted into obscurity was Karl Schaeffer's kinetic steam generator.



It used water hammer (rapid pressure pulses) to generate steam without the need to heat the water using an external heat source.  Once running it required very little energy input to continue running, apart from a continuous supply of cold water and an electrical motor to drive the rotor enough to overcome parasitic forces.  A British firm was developing this idea a while ago and rumour was that a large oil company was very interested in taking it over.  Nothing has been heard of the project since.

[slim]

I also remember seeing a tv news article about a man who had invented something that could recharge normal batteries. (this was on the news after TV-AM back in the eighties). again never heard of this again.

Erm, I had one of those. They exist.

[Mister Cairo]

I like the way he thinks Mike is talking complete rubbish yet puts the letter on his website anyway.

If you can't even take the time to read -and DIGEST properly- the information I've presented in my paper, then you're not much of a "professional" anything. You're just another closed minded, orthodox "professional" bump on the log skeptic who is doing nothing to aid or move humanity forward. And believe me, you've got plenty of company!

Yeah, what have engineers ever done for us? They've never invented anything worthwhile or helped to keep the world running have they?

He's obviously used to this type of e-mail ,that's why he's so rude to him. Still, I'm going to sign up to the mailing list and see what else he comes up with.

[Alberon]

This whole thing sounds like one of those scams where they go out looking for people to invest in this fantastic new thing that will revolutionise everything. There's a prototype almost working and he just needs a few more thousand dollars to get it all working.

There was one scam of this sort where the pseudo-scientific bullshit was used to weed out everyone at the presentation with some degree of sceptisism. After an hour or so when only the gullible were left the real selling began. This goes on for years and years and it's always 'just round the corner'.

It doesn't seem to be the case here, though there does seem to be a couple of videos and a book (for sale?) around this clearly bonkers idea.

The idea that this would (or indeed could) be supressed is moronic as well. The big companies would be bringing out there own models and flogging it for all it was worth.

[Oscar]

Erm, I had one of those. They exist.

Really? Gosh how exciting! Was there any limit to the batteries it could recharge? Was it comercially available or were you a spy? What happened to it? - Was it a bit crap really and fizzled out after a few days or did The Man take it away and replace it with a 4 by 4?

[slim]

It was a plastic black box that could take a combination of differing sized batters, in four slots. You could recharge the batteries again and again although they lost a little life each time (significantly more than a regular rechargeable). They probably worked well about 20 - 30 times before become unusable.

I guess they were easily available. My dad managed an electronics shop and so just brought it home one day. Perhas he was a spy.

[gazzyk1ns]

I've never really understood this "All the big companies regularly buy patents for whatever sum of money is necessary, then put them in a cupboard and laugh." thing - surely if they purchased the patents to revolutionary things, they'd market them? Yeah, it would take some money and effort, but take the case being discussed, for example; if BP marketed this new "clean" energy, people would jump at it and BP would have a fabulous reputation. At the moment people are frustrated with petrol prices and think oil/petroleum companies are cunts. If they had the patent, why on earth would they just stick it in a cupboard?

[slim]

The theory is that they'd rather bleed every last possible penny out of oil before turning to other things because they have an established infrastructure and business model that is proven to make huge profits; why change it until absolutely necessary?

Another argument I've read is that some of the technologies are so simple that they'd be effectively impossible to protect and home build/use would ruin any chance of long term profits.

I think the first option is much more believable than the latter personally.

[Baxter]

I was quite interested in this thread until i read that most horrible of pseudo-scientific terms "Orgone"

[Still Not George]

It's worth bearing in mind that Big Business has never cared one jot about public opinion since advertising was invented. Just spend more on advertising if people start disliking you, or arrange a monopoly. They couldn't care less if people are pissed off with them as long as they still make money hand over fist.

Thus, it's easier to fuck people royally up the ass with an economically unsound product that makes a shitload of profits than spend any money at all on a superior competitor.

[Gazeuse]

...And now...Travelling by telephone.

[gazzyk1ns]

The theory is that they'd rather bleed every last possible penny out of oil before turning to other things because they have an established infrastructure and business model that is proven to make huge profits; why change it until absolutely necessary?

Another argument I've read is that some of the technologies are so simple that they'd be effectively impossible to protect and home build/use would ruin any chance of long term profits.

I think the first option is much more believable than the latter personally.

I was about to say the exact opposite!

BP clearly care about the public opinion of them, because of their latest campaign.

t's worth bearing in mind that Big Business has never cared one jot about public opinion since advertising was invented. Just spend more on advertising if people start disliking you

Er, isn't that contradictory? Surely the advertising will aim to alter public opinion? BP's new ad campaign tries to assert the view that they do care about the environment and are trying to encourage people to buy a "cleaner" fuel they produce. I mean, the fuel might not really be "cleaner", or whatever, but it's trying to convince people that they actively care about the environment. I see what you mean though, I suppose they'd rather alter public opinion without actually doing anything.

[Still Not George]

Er, isn't that contradictory? Surely the advertising will aim to alter public opinion? BP's new ad campaign tries to assert the view that they do care about the environment and are trying to encourage people to buy a "cleaner" fuel they produce. I mean, the fuel might not really be "cleaner", or whatever, but it's trying to convince people that they actively care about the environment. I see what you mean though, I suppose they'd rather alter public opinion without actually doing anything.

Well, exactly. Altering public opinion by spending a small amount of money, rather than cleaning up their act by spending a large amount of money. Just basic business sense really.