'Joe' energy cells?

[Suttonpubcrawl]

I skimmed through that video about "Joe cells" posted on the previous page and it's just bollocks isn't it? He never explains how they work or what the idea behind it's meant to be, he just points at some bubbles in the water as if this indicates something important about "orgone energy".

[JesusAndYourBush]

Why isn't Joe selling his Joe-Cell and making lots of money?

[peet]

Well clearly if he gave one to someone else they'd set it up with the ethers all out of skew, and it wouldn't work.

[Still Not George]

Why isn't Joe selling his Joe-Cell and making lots of money?

TheUsualWhackJobsOnTheInternet(TM) seem to be claiming that this mysterious "Joe" has been threatened with unpleasant pain of various kinds by IlluminatiMilitaryIndustrialBilderbergAgentsFromMars(TM). So instead of simply taking a payoff and hiding, he's given his invention to a load of... well, I think "nutter" is such a negative term...

[Alberon]

And these nutters (a term I consider to be generous) are all driving around in water powered cars, of course.

[20 Mayfair, please love]

Althougth there was an equinox years ago showing engines that produced more energy than you put in. It worked by pumping a cylinder with holes running through it in a slightly bigger cylinder. Never seen or heard anything about that since..

Wasn't a Sterling Engine was it?

http://www.howstuffworks.com/stirling-engine.htm
http://www.stirlingengine.com/

[sproggy]

No it's not a sterling engine, that runs off heat differentials.

Marv Orange was describing the Schaeffer Steam Generator I explained on the previous page.  Part of the problem with the designer's claim was the efficiency ratio greater than one, which of course implies perpetual motion, resulting no-one taking a blind bit of notice.  I remember a practical use was to use the steam to heat public buildings at a fraction of the cost of conventional methods.

The only problem I forsee is having to use purified water to prevent fouling of the cylinders and precision machined surfaces.  Purifying water requires a lot of energy, so if that can be cracked (solar evaporation perhaps) I reckon it's viable.

[Johnny Yesno]

No it's not a sterling engine, that runs off heat differentials.

Marv Orange was describing the Schaeffer Steam Generator I explained on the previous page.  Part of the problem with the designer's claim was the efficiency ratio greater than one, which of course implies perpetual motion, resulting no-one taking a blind bit of notice.  I remember a practical use was to use the steam to heat public buildings at a fraction of the cost of conventional methods.

The only problem I forsee is having to use purified water to prevent fouling of the cylinders and precision machined surfaces.  Purifying water requires a lot of energy, so if that can be cracked (solar evaporation perhaps) I reckon it's viable.

I remember that. There was a fire station in Canada using one of those generators. The theory at the time of broadcast was that machines like this were tapping into "zero energy", the energy that exists at absolute zero.

[Marv Orange]

The only problem I forsee is having to use purified water to prevent fouling of the cylinders and precision machined surfaces.  Purifying water requires a lot of energy, so if that can be cracked (solar evaporation perhaps) I reckon it's viable.

I remember that. There was a fire station in Canada using one of those generators. The theory at the time of broadcast was that machines like this were tapping into "zero energy", the energy that exists at absolute zero.[/quote]

Yup thats it. There was some victorian scientist researching it (all i remember is a metal cage) who ended up burning down the shed he was working in and killed himself.

Or something like that.

[Baxter]

I'm a bit dubious about the Schaeffer Steam Generator thing if you look at the image of the engine running you can see a plume of white emanating directly from the nozzle that's an aerosol of water in it's liquid state suspended in the air, it's important to have the distinction between Steam (water vapour) and particulate water in the air, steam is a colorless gas that cannot be seen where as particulate water is visible, it appears to be a white gas, go and look at your kettle next time you boil it there is space quite close to the opening where there is actual "steam" after that the water cools on contact with the air and becomes a particulate suspended in the air.

I'd say that form the image water vapour is being created by causing the pressure in the apparatus to drop to a point at which the ambient temperature is enough to turn the water in a vapour, this is not generating heat far from it heat energy is actually used during the transition as "latent heat" to break the intermolecular bonds between the water particles.

It all seems mad I can't see a way that water can change state without needing to add more energy into the system eventually, if you had a large enough mass of water in the tank to minimise the overall effect of the cooling due to latent heat and the pressure was low enough so that it would keep Turning the water into vapour even as more and more heat was lost out of the system as latent heat it definitely couldn't keep going  for any real amount of time.

(Plus there's the energy to keep pulsing the water down to a pressure at which it can vaporise at room temperatures.)

[ColaCoca]

I read about this in 2003:

Lasers tackle radioactive waste

13 August 2003

One of the biggest challenges facing the nuclear industry today is the storage and disposal of waste that will remain radioactive for millions of years. One approach to this problem involves bombarding the waste with neutrons to speed up the decay of long-lived isotopes into nuclei with much shorter half-lives. However, physicists in the UK and Germany have now demonstrated a new laser-driven approach to "transmutation" by converting iodine-129, which has a half-life of 15.7 million years, into iodine-128. The half-life of this lighter isotope is just 25 minutes (K Ledingham et al. 2003 J. Phys. D36 L79).

considering how revolutionary it appears to be it's gone very quiet since then and the latest plans to dispose of radioactive waste still seem just to be talking about burying in a big hole in the ground.  You'd think someone in the nuclear industry would be pushing this very hard, no?

[Baxter]

"converting iodine-129, which has a half-life of 15.7 million years, into iodine-128."

How many I-129 isotopes were converted is the crucial thing in that article sadly I can't seem to finy any articles citing numbers converted but the top google hit says it's over an area of a maximum of  137 mBarns which isn't that many really even though barns are comparitively large units.

[Suttonpubcrawl]

I went looking for some information about cold fusion on wikipedia, because it's in  this kind of category, and linked to at the bottom of the page was this list:
List of alternative, disputed, and speculative theories

Good old orgone energy is there, of course.

[Labian Quest]

considering how revolutionary it appears to be it's gone very quiet since then

Was there anyone called Joe involved in this discovery?

[Johnny Yesno]

I'd say that form the image water vapour is being created by causing the pressure in the apparatus to drop to a point at which the ambient temperature is enough to turn the water in a vapour, this is not generating heat far from it heat energy is actually used during the transition as "latent heat" to break the intermolecular bonds between the water particles.

It all seems mad I can't see a way that water can change state without needing to add more energy into the system eventually, if you had a large enough mass of water in the tank to minimise the overall effect of the cooling due to latent heat and the pressure was low enough so that it would keep Turning the water into vapour even as more and more heat was lost out of the system as latent heat it definitely couldn't keep going  for any real amount of time.

IIRC the heat was generated by the friction of passing the water through a system of moving holes. Apparently the energy used to do this was less than the energy passed out of the system. That fire station saw their electricity bills drop sharply after installing the thing, anyway.

[Johnny Yesno]

Yup thats it. There was some victorian scientist researching it (all i remember is a metal cage) who ended up burning down the shed he was working in and killed himself.

Or something like that.

Nicolas Tesla. For bonus points, can you name two bands who named themselves in connection with him?

[Marv Orange]

Yup thats it. There was some victorian scientist researching it (all i remember is a metal cage) who ended up burning down the shed he was working in and killed himself.

Or something like that.

Nicolas Tesla. For bonus points, can you name two bands who named themselves in connection with him?

no i cannot

[Almost Yearly]

Tesla - took a while to get that one.

Van Der Graaf (GIRAFFES IN A VAN) Generator

[Johnny Yesno]

Tesla - took a while to get that one.

Van Der Graaf (GIRAFFES IN A VAN) Generator

A million points (beat that BB) to the bald man! Actually, I never thought of VDGG. There's three, then, Coil being the third, since they named themselves after the Tesla coil (okay, dropping the Tesla bit made the connection slightly less obvious, I'll admit).

[Mister Six]

Surprisingly, the Energy Cell does not deplete its water while in operation. The water is acting in the role of a catalyst in the transference of a special form of energy from the surrounding atmosphere into the engine and the water itself is not consumed in the process.

So basically, this guy's glued a fish tank full of water to the top of a proper engine and people somehow believe him?

[Almost Yearly]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Bucky Fuller fan, I'm sure we have it in us to find ways to distill some of the vast quantities of latent energy which undoubtedly surrounds us, if we can only stop mucking around on the internet for five minutes.

I like the notion which pervades science fiction that one day we'll move about by some sort of will power. Enlightened to the co-dependency of every part of the universe, we'll travel instantaneously in cars running on pure energy-free information, presumably with a few simple adaptions gaffertaped to an internal combustion engine, and thus we shall live forever. Similar to the orgone car we invented on page one, which I like more, because to get somewhere there has to be someone there worth seeing, which actually isn't far from what we've got now. I really shouldn't smoke in the day. And I've just thought of the Improbability Drive and fucking hell Adams is dead :-(

[slim]

fucking hell Adams is dead :-(

It's horrid, isn't it? I read a quote of his yesterday and remembered. The lovely, dead bastard.

[RFT]

5 years ago last week, wasn't it?

[Mr Colossal]

Right, so it seems the crux of the argument as to whether this Joe Cell works or not, is whether or not orgone energy exists, and what the hell it actually is...

I've since done a bit of reading into William Reich  and cloudbusting etc. But im still none the wiser.

http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/Orgone_energy

says:

Orgone energy was Wilhelm Reich's term for an omnipresent, "life positive" energy he claimed to have discovered in 1939. Reich often used 'orgone energy' as a catch-all to explain every natural phenomenon for which there was no conventional explanation (or for which Reich did not know there existed a conventional explanation), as a kind of a God of the gaps. Those few properties of orgone energy Reich did spell out as definite included:

 * Orgone is attracted by organic substances

 * Orgone is attracted, but then immediately re-radiated, by metallic substances

  * Earth has an orgone energy field that flows west-to-east faster than the Earth rotates, except when a storm is approaching and the flow reverses its direction

So orgone energy is the 'Jon Doe' of the energy world... Has anybody tried to pick up where Reich left off?  and is there anything else in existence that appears to harness a similar type of unknown energy that people can actually whitness, other than believing this Joe's word that 'he built such a cell and drove a car a long distance, honest!' ?

I've also since discovered that the joe energy cell has a myspace, which probably explains the sudden intermezzo of loonies singing its praises based on such insubstantial evidence.

http://www.myspace.com/joecell

[Baxter]

Right, so it seems the crux of the argument as to whether this Joe Cell works or not, is whether or not orgone energy exists

I'm letting out a long sheriking primal scream at the idea you would for one second belive in such a thing could exist.

[Almost Yearly]

Yeah, this orgone, it's just God isn't it, or love, or whatever enigmatic name you give it.

Hm, he tried to rope Einstein in.

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift." - Albert Einstein. Not bang on topic, but still.

[Peking O]

Nicolas Tesla.

Here's a pic I took of a Tesla Coil at the Coachella festival (sorry, it was very dark. You get the idea):

[sproggy]

[InfiniteFury]

http://members.iinet.net.au/~pterren/Tesla_7ft.JPG

It's huge and I can't be arsed to resize it but that is basically a looney who built a Tesla Coil in his back garden. It's now my desktop image.

Edit - Oh go on then, as it's you:

[Marv Orange]

i can see a monster mash cd in the background.