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[Muso] Drums 'n' Equipment

Started by Go With The Flow, May 10, 2006, 04:34:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Go With The Flow

Based on the Guitar topic, I thought about starting a Drum-themed topic, presuming there are enough drummers to keep it alive.

I shall hopefully be purchasing a Maxwin/Pearl kit soon, does anybody have one of these? And are they any good?

Go With The Flow

Does anybody know what paint would work best on a Drum Kit? I would like to spruce up my kit when I get it, and was wondering if anyone else has tried this.

Johnny Yesno

I've got a Pearl Export Series kit I bought second hand in 1990. It was very good value for money as it sounds good (although not like an expensive kit, obviously) and has good 'n' solid hardware. You find the wingnuts and that wear out quickly on a lot of budget kits but the ones on my Pearl are fine.

More recently I got one of them Roland V-Drum kits. They are fucking fantastic, although the lack of separate outputs on the sound module, even on the most expensive ones I'm told, can be a bit of a bugbear when recording. I'm just using mine to practise with headphones at the mo. On the plus side the mesh heads are amazing, though they're too expensive for me to have more than one, which I use as the snare. The rubber pads which I've got for the other drums are pretty good. The cymbals are probably the least realistic - the sample retriggering (a problem with MIDI rather than the kit, I reckon) prevents you from doing nice swooshes, and sometimes cymbal crashes don't "take" at all. You can, however, choke them off, which is a nice touch, but if I was going to perform live I'd still use real cymbals.

micanio

How much do you want to spend? My main experience is with Pearl and Premier so:

IF its about £300, then get the Premier Olympic - spanking kit for the money.
£400 - Pearl Forum - full kit with semi decent cymbals - best starter kit you can buy.

Anything over that and its a toss up between a load of kits - you got the Pearl Export Series (EX, EXR, ELX) and the Premier Cabria Standard, Cabira Metallic, Cabria Exclusive. That'll take you up to about £700-£800, pobaby cheaper actually, but you won't get any cymbals with these kits.

Above that and your into pro kits like the Pearl Reference Series and the Premier Artist Series which are very expensive....

Hope that helps...

Circusfire

Shit, didn't see this thread til now.

I asked this in the drummers thread.

QuoteI want to learn drumming but have no bloody room for a drum kit.

Would learning from an electronic drum pad be any good? I mean one you actually have to hit with sticks.
And if anyone can point me in the right direction of a good electronic drum thingy I'd be most grateful.

Anyone? Ta muchly.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: "Circusfire"Shit, didn't see this thread til now.

I asked this in the drummers thread.

QuoteI want to learn drumming but have no bloody room for a drum kit.

Would learning from an electronic drum pad be any good? I mean one you actually have to hit with sticks.
And if anyone can point me in the right direction of a good electronic drum thingy I'd be most grateful.

Anyone? Ta muchly.

Are you looking for just one pad or a kit of pads? Only you'll need a kick drum pad if you're ever going to learn to play a full kit. I know you said you don't have the room for a kit but electronic kits take up less room than acoustic ones.

Circusfire

Thanks, that is a good point. To learn properly I'll need foot practise too.

Bah. Any reviews I've read of electronic drum pads so far have said they are crap.

A real drum kit is what I truly, truly want. I imagine it is dead theraputic bashing the fucking shit out of them.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: "Circusfire"Thanks, that is a good point. To learn properly I'll need foot practise too.

Bah. Any reviews I've read of electronic drum pads so far have said they are crap.

A real drum kit is what I truly, truly want. I imagine it is dead theraputic bashing the fucking shit out of them.

Yes, real drum kits are dead therapeutic... if you get the chance to play them. I can't be any more positive about Roland V-Drums than my original "fucking fantastic" comment.

Morrisfan82

How much would a cheapish basic V-Drum setup cost d'you think? Just, say, kick, snare, maybe a tom, hi-hat, and a cymbal, and the main unit obviously.

dmillburn

V-drums do rule - I've had a set since they were first  released (cost me about £3500) and it's been worth every penny, they feel great and sound fantastic in the studio. Live you are obviously limited to the quality of the PA and hindered by luddite soundmen but at decent venues (The Garage Highbury etc) they sound great. Not sure where the info about lack of outputs comes from - there's been 8 ouputs on the TD-10 since release which is more than enough although the cheaper brains might obviously skimp on this a bit (I've not kept with the

Having said all that you can't compare it with an acoustic kit - I love the electronic side, triggering external gear and the sequencer triggering my stuff, editing sounds and fucking about with effects so that the drums sound nothing like drums etc. On the other hand there's nothing like a bash on a decent acoustic kit - it's so much easier to use my acoustic kit for gigs rather than spend ages plugging 8 million cables in before dealing with an engineer on the desk who has no idea about electronic drums. They also don't travel well - V-drum kits look great at first but turn to shit after a few years gigging.

Go With The Flow

Quote from: "Circusfire"I want to learn drumming but have no bloody room for a drum kit.

Would learning from an electronic drum pad be any good? I mean one you actually have to hit with sticks.
And if anyone can point me in the right direction of a good electronic drum thingy I'd be most grateful.

What about Arbiter Flats? They hardly take up any room, and they can fold up very easily when you're not using them. They're better than those rubbish pad things, and it's the nearest to a "proper" kit for your needs. Brand new they're about £200, but look on eBay for a sweet deal.

--

Anyway, onto MY drum kit adventures.
I used to have a Session Pro kit (URGH!) with decent Sabian Solar Cymbals, but then I sold it to purchase a camcorder. I haven't got a camcorder (none seem suited to me needs or are too expensive) so I've decided to go back to drums. What I've decided to do is (The Peal/Maxwin guy sold it somewhere else) buy each seperate piece on eBay (or wherever) and restore it myself. I've bought an Olympic Premier Tom (£13 w/delivery) and a Hohner Bass Drum (£46 w/d) so far, and I'll keep posted on here with the news of what's happening next. Such as how I'm going to paint it, new skins etc.

Go With The Flow

I got the Bass Drum Today - seems decent so far. But no pedal, so I can't really test it out.

What I was thinking of doing is putting fur on the drums. Not real fur, obviously, but some material that any old sod can get from the fabrics store. Does anyone think this is ace/horrible?

Go With The Flow

Ugh, just realised my post two posts above is the to one in the Drummer's thread. I'm not on commission, I swear!

I have now bought 6 drums (12" shell for snare, 22" Bass Drum, 12" and 13" toms, and two 16" Floor toms - they're different sizes, and one is a concert tom)
I have also got all the essential cymbals I need (14" hihats, 16" Crash, 20" ride)
So now all I need to do is strip the layer of paint off one more drum, then these babies can be painted! I've had a talk with the local Car Sprayer, and he may be able to give my drums the proper treatment. Soon my masterpiece shall be unveiled!

Go With The Flow

I know you kids are so excited about my Drum Project, so here's a sneak preview of the Bass Drum.

http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p3290088tm1.jpg
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9714/p3290088tm1.jpg (for those who need it DIRECT.)

no_offenc

One day I'm going to save up 2 grand and buy a Jalapeno kit and lock it away in a hermetically sealed room and never touch it, just because they look so fucking nice.  Given I play in 2 bands I suppose I need a kit, to be honest.

Spiney Norman

I have a mid-60s Premier kit that my grandad gave me. I haven't had the room to set them up and play for a while, but I'm moving again in a few weeks and intend to get it properly sorted out - new hardware, cymbals, skins, etc.

As for avoiding pissing off the neighbours, I've got my eye on either these rubber pad things that go over the drum heads and cymbals which deaden the sound sufficiently for practising, or these special skins that claim to reduce the volume significantly... does anyone know if these things are any good?

Go With The Flow

I got given a set of rubbery drum silencers, (the texture is slightly harder than a mouse-pad). They seem to reduce any annoying echo noise more than silence the drum sound. (but I play HARDKORE!!!11 loud 'n' fast so that may be the reason. It may affect, say, a jazz player's sound more.)

A cheap tip - IKEA mousepads are very cheap and great for reducing the echo on drums.

Also, I've done another drum.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4779/p4040093hh5.jpg

And here's a snare shell I bought to 'do up'. Apparently it's going to be dead expensive though :(

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7341/vtp2.jpg

Bernard

Electronic drums vs real completely depends on your needs and wants and, importantly, what the music and performance require and your band's image/ethos (sorry if that's not a word you know what I mean) and what the audience will accept. I can't think of anyone who prefers to watch someone hit an electric drum.

For home/amatur/semi-pro recording projects, you might not be up to mic-ing up a real kit or have the equipment to be able to do so decently.

For sheer enjoyment and satisfation a real kit knocks down the electronic. It's simply inherently satisfying knowing you've created that bang n thud and have infinite control over the dynamics of it. Compare this to electric where you're often getting a very similar or identical sample each time, even if you hit it with a bit less force. It just doesn't feel so great.

Regarding the quality of electric sounds - what I'd do if/when I have an electric kit again is connect it to a computer running Propellerhead Software's Reason 3's Drum Kits refill. This is so fucking cool and kills any drum module if you can sort out hi-hat triggering ok. Here's why:

For each drum you can adjust the individual mic, plus overhead spill mics plus ambient mic. Wicked!

Secondly, it's just superbly recorded. At a high resolution of 24bits/96KHz if you like, too.

Thirdly, each different velocity is recorded for 3 or 4 samples, so that each time you hit the same drum you don't get an identical sound - this is what often gives the game away to your critical listener.

Go With The Flow

Do you reckon electric drums, as they get cheaper and better, will be used the same, if not more than acoustic drums? I like the fact you can play with headphones, becoming pretty much silent, but they've never felt 'right' to me. However, I've never played more than 10 minutes in a Dawson's Music Shop, so if I had more time with one, I might find it better.

Bernard

Even electronic make enough noise in a terraced house for your neighbour to hear, but it's not enough for them to justifiably kill you by any means.

Regarding what you said, well, first I don't think the price is going to "drop" or anything. There's a healthy market for competition and they've been around for years so the price must've reached a (technical term, go on someone say that word)... ah, settled.

For professional recordings, well! I myself have used a real drum recording but not liked the kick. So I exported the audio as a MIDI file using Melodyne and then imported that into a sequencer to use a kick from the software I mentioned earlier.

That made me feel really clever.

Labian Quest

The best sub-£200 option is probably the Yamaha DD55, which you can get for about £160 from Argos, I've even seen them ex-demo for £100 a couple of times, they've even got footpads for the hihats and kick drum, plus reasonably good built in speakers and a headphone out. My brother had one for a while, and it sounded pretty good, unfortunately it broke after about 3 months, though he was carting it about in trolley thing so it probably got knocked about a bit.

Go With The Flow

We don't mean those drum-pad thingymabobs, LQ. We mean proper V-DRUMS and the like.

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=Yamaha%20DD55 = Drum Pad
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=V-DRUMS = Electric Kit

(I don't mean to be patronising, LQ)

Labian Quest

Well, someone mentioned the word 'cheapish' and AFAIK, the decent V-Drums start at about £600, there is also the Ion Audio thing and the Alesis kit (which I think are nearly the same thing) but I'd heard they were crap. Depends how much you want to spend.

You can get cheaper than these prices, but as a rough guide:

http://www.dawsonsonline.com/live/rhtGal.php5?site=r&dept=1&cat=8&subcat=5&page=1

Go With The Flow

[bump]

I finished my kit!

I now have 2 bass drums (both 22", but different lengths), 2 toms (12" and 13"), 2 floor toms (both 16", but one is a concert tom) and 3 snares! (A horrible Chinese 13" one, a nice 14" Premier Olympic, and a 14" Pearl Export in green)

no_offenc

What cymbals d'you use?  I'm a Paiste Rude person meself.  I make do with 2 heavy crashes (16 and 17 inch) and a set of the regular 14" hi-hats, though I'm thinking of getting a power ride or some of the thinner crashes in the future if I have the money.

www.thomann.de do cheap electronic kits. Millenium starter kit. Cheapest around 333euro with a brain. I got one for about 700 for a while but I got sick of the shitty highhat response and a few other things. In the end I went for a silent practice kit by DW. My acoustic kit is a DW collectors series with Istanbul ride and K hats, Zldj crashes. A custom crashes are beautiful, versatile and workhorses.

http://www.thomann.de/ie/millenium_mps100_edrum_starter_set.htm

For practice I use the DW practice kit - 150 euro. Fantastic, sturdy and portable.

http://www.thomann.de/ie/dw_go_anywhere_practice_kit.htm

www.drummerworld.com

Go With The Flow

I have no money for things like cymbals, no_offenc!

Sabian Solar Hi-hats, Meinl Meteor Crash, Paiste 101 Ride.

no_offenc

I only bought em cos I got a few hundred quid when my nan died, gawd bless 'er.  And I am dragging this thread out of the past because I just won a Mapex Black Panther snare off eBum, 14"x5.5" I guess.  Brass, hand-hammered shell.  RRP - £350-ish.  I got it for £63 + delivery.  Hopefully I'll have it before the week is out.

Go With The Flow

Do you get lessons, no_offenc? I really need some, as I'm hopefully starting to play properly and that. I'm discussing bands with some friends as well.

no_offenc

Nah I need them badly like.  I hardly get to practice because I don't have space for a kit at the moment.  Should change fairly soon though.  Going down the Frankenkit route I think - floor tom here, kick drum there, hardware from christ knows where.  Hopefully that snare will turn up before my next gig and then I can deafen everyone with it.