[Muso] Drums 'n' Equipment

[Lfbarfe]

Right, here's a rundown of my main kit, the Gretsch parts of which have been with me for 16 years:

13" x 9" Gretsch rack tom
16" x 16" Gretsch floor tom
20" x 14" Gretsch bass drum
(all mid-late 1970s in black, but the plan is to get them recovered in a pearl or glitter finish)
14" x 5" Ludwig 400 snare (keystone badge model with alloy shell, circa 1964)

Hi-hats: (top) 13" thin A Zildjian & Cie Constantinople brilliant finish thin, circa 1978
(bottom) 13" Stagg brilliant finish heavy bottom
(I have both pairs of cymbals, but find these the perfect combination)
16" K Zildjian dark crash - brilliant finish - circa 1989
15" Stagg brilliant finish double hammered thin crash
22" Sabian HH Sound Control Hi-Bell Ride
10" Stagg splash
18" cheap and nasty Zildjian 'Edge' china, made useful by the addition of 8 rivets and a couple of strips of gaffa tape.

There's also a 1960s Premier in blue pearl and a Stagg kit in fusion sizes (bought in a period of relative flushness simply because I'd never owned a 5-piece), a few roto-toms, a Premier 2000 metal snare (currently on loan to my old mate Stuffy G of top combo Stuffy and the Fuses), the Premier Royal Ace that goes with the 1960s kit and a Pearl 12" x 5" soprano, but since getting the Ludwig about 3 years ago, I've found that there's nothing it can't do. Cymbalwise, I also have a 16" A Zildjian medium thin  from the 1960s that used to belong to Kenny Clare - it's gorgeous (Stuffy sold it to me about 15 years ago and has been trying to buy it back ever since), but I love it too much to take it anywhere  and the 16" K is pretty close, and a 17" A Zildjian Remix ride, which is perfect for small gigs. The Stagg cymbals in particular are a revelation. The 15" crash was about £30 and is a blinder.

With acoustic drums, always buy second-hand. You get more for your money and it's not hard to work out whether they're sound or not.

[Go With The Flow]

Going down the Frankenkit route I think - floor tom here, kick drum there, hardware from christ knows where.it.

http://adcdrums.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=555 ADC Drums' bargain bin could be useful. Especially since you could just pop in and pick it up, save some time with delivery.

A word of advice - don't turn up your nose at Hohner. I bought a bass drum made by them, and later on a Premier one. the Hohner one is a lot better, louder and beefier sounding. There was an Arbiter full hardware set (Cymbal, Boom, Snare, Bass Pedal) on eBay for £50. Extremely cheap, and not awful, but obviously you could do better, especially if you end up lugging your kit around for gigs and the like. Also, how did you get into your bands? Are they all mates, or did you apply from a music shop or somewhere else?

I'm not sure whether to have a monster kit (2 BD, 2 toms, 2 FT + Snare) or two seperate four-piece kits. I could store one or have them in seperate rooms or something.

[no_offenc]

The bands I'm in are all people I've known either from sixth form onwards or people I've met in the course of doing gigs and all that.  Goldentony and I are in about 600 different bands, all 2 piece ones, though we only ever play gigs as Brute Forsyth.  I'm also in the immigrants, though whether you've heard of either I dunno.

I'm going to wait for my new snare to turn up before I decide what direction to go with a kit - I found a gorgeous XPK kick on ebay about two weeks ago but didn't have the money to pay for it (£26 or so I think it went for, and yes, I know, I'm a skint student, or was skint then at least).  So I'm going to keep my eye out.  Anything with a natural finish or a matte finish would do me I reckon.  Nothing garish and it has to sound massive and be sturdy as owt.

[Lfbarfe]

Those Mapex Black Panthers are terrific snare drums. The XPKs were good kits, but keep an eye out and you might be able to find higher-end Premier kits, such as Soundwave, Projector and Resonator, for not much more money.  If I were currently looking for another kit, I'd be eyeing this one - http://digbig.com/4srhx - very closely. Projectors were superb drums - I remember playing one in ProPerc circa 1987 and being incredibly impressed.

Don't go for a lacquer finish unless you can afford cases or bags. They just get beaten up and look shit. The amount of resonance lost with a plastic wrap is minimal, and the payback in durability is worth it.

Here's a pic of my babies, as currently configured. The heads are 12 year-old Remo clear Emperors.

[Go With The Flow]

I'm also in the immigrants.

http://www.myspace.com/theimmigrantslike I'm guessing it's these?
EDIT: nvm

I might try and go to that 12 May gig though, Sounds ace! Your songs aren't bad either.

[no_offenc]

Yeah that's us lot.  The 12th May thing is going to be rather good, I reckon.  We've apparently improved since we started but I have no real clue.

Snare should be turning up tomorrow or Friday, and I'm looking forward to it.  Possibly going to cannibalize the Aquarian Hi-Energy head off my current no-name steel snare because it's really fucking good at taking the beatings.  The one I have has lasted me over two years so far, no dents in it or owt, and doesn't sound any different to me than the day I put it on the drum originally.

[Lfbarfe]

Did it arrive on Friday?

[Go With The Flow]

The one I have has lasted me over two years so far, no dents in it or owt

That's because you're not playing hard enough! Play with your arms, not your wrists!
Also, has the snare arrived yet? is it any good? etc

[Lfbarfe]

That's because you're not playing hard enough! Play with your arms, not your wrists!

Good advice. See also use chair legs instead of sticks and really dig into the head as hard as possible.

The whole thing of changing heads regularly is a recent phenomenon. Kenny Clare had the stock head on his 400 for most of the 1960s, and by the end it had almost no coating left on it. Still sounded effing great.

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[Go With The Flow]

I was thinking more baguettes than chair legs (some carbohydrates mid-gig too), but still, good point.

I guess people change heads more often now as heads are cheaply made, and so go sour very quickly. Either that or the marketing bods at Remo et al have managed to make us paranoid into buying them more often. I have quite an old head on my Premier Olympic snare, still sounds epic though!

How do you get rid of the horrible echoing noise? It seems to be to do with snare vibration. I've tried tuning, but doesn't seem to work. putting a glove on seems to reduce most of the echo. I put pillows in my Bass drums, gives it a lovely "thud".

Also, what baguettes, sorry, sticks do you use? I'm an Ahead man myself, they've never broken on me yet. They're a bit more expensive than normal wooden sticks, but they're worth it for me.

[Lfbarfe]

I guess people change heads more often now as heads are cheaply made

I can't detect a difference in quality between a modern Remo Ambassador and the ones I was buying 15 years ago. If you play properly, your heads will last for years.  

, and so go sour very quickly.

Not as far as I can tell.

Either that or the marketing bods at Remo et al have managed to make us paranoid into buying them more often.

I think that's more likely. There's this culture among some endorsement artists to change heads every night (because they're free and because they've got a roadie to do it for them). Older drummers will stil use a head for much longer. Brian Bennett from the Shadows changed the batter head on his main snare once during the 2004 Final Tour, and did so very reluctantly.

I have quite an old head on my Premier Olympic snare, still sounds epic though!

What sort of Olympic snare is it? The straight sided steel shell 8-lug one - the 1005, I seem to recall it being called. My first kit came with one of those. A great drum. And what's the head? Not an Everplay, by any chance?

How do you get rid of the horrible echoing noise? It seems to be to do with snare vibration. I've tried tuning, but doesn't seem to work.

I always slacken off the 4 lugs nearest the snare bed on the bottom side. That clears up a lot of overtones. I don't use any damping on the snare or toms. I like them wide-open. The bass drum's only got a Remo Muffl tray in it, so it goes off like a cannon, despite being just 20" x 14".

putting a glove on seems to reduce most of the echo. I put pillows in my Bass drums, gives it a lovely "thud".

Fine if you're going to be miked, but I prefer having some tone and volume in reserve.

Also, what baguettes, sorry, sticks do you use? I'm an Ahead man myself, they've never broken on me yet. They're a bit more expensive than normal wooden sticks, but they're worth it for me.

My favourites are the Vic Firth Omar Hakim signature models. Nice and thick with a round nylon tip. They're easier to control than lighter sticks, so I often find myself playing quieter than I would with, say, a 7a.

What about brushes?  The Calato ring-ended, rubber-handled ones are the best I've ever used.

[chumfatty]

Hello, my girlfriend is buying me one of those USB dumkit thingys - http://www.getinthemix.co.uk/iED05-Ion-USB-Drum-Kit.htm

Yes they may be frowned upon by the drumming elite, but I am a 'Fad' man and all this could just be a passing need to play the drums and end up being a substitute clothes horse this time next year. All i need is something to learn the basics on and if it takes off then I may invest in a Roland electronic drumkit.

So how would one go about learning the basics, I'm not a complete novice I have played guitar in bands for years and have had about 5 drum lessons, but that was ages ago though. I want to teach myself initially as I don't want to outlay too much dosh (although I do have a mate who is a professional drum teacher but even discounted he aint cheap). So can anyone recommend any books/internet sites that can get me started.

Thank you

[no_offenc]

That's because you're not playing hard enough! Play with your arms, not your wrists!
Also, has the snare arrived yet? is it any good? etc

A year and a bit later... yes the snare turned up, yes it's fucking fantastic.  The head off my old snare was too big, but the reason it lasted so long is because it was heavy as owt, I think.  Not sure what's on the Mapex snare at the mo but I've tuned it up high and it has a really really loud crack to it.  Hopefully should have a practice room for me new band and a kit by year end, still not sure what to go with though.  One rack, one floor, big (at least 22") kick and decent hardware will do me.  Any suggestions?

[Lfbarfe]

Go for 1970s or 1980s Premier. Built to last, contemporary sound, and massively undervalued at the moment. Keep an eye on this one if you've got the spare cash right now and live anywhere near London - http://tinyurl.com/4eh6o4.

[no_offenc]

Ach, if only I'd fitted into either of those categories.  That kit looks/looked lovely.  I was sort of gunning for old Premier anyway, the first kit I played on was an 80s XPK (I think) though I'm not entirely sure how a school managed to get a non-shit drum kit.  Something that can take the beatings but plays nice with less horrible kit-thrashing too.

I'll be more on the lookout around December-ish, I think.  Got to sort out my PC first (I know, I know) unless I find a similarly bargain-y old Prem on eBay.  Then I might just go hogwild.  As it were.

[chumfatty]

I must have inadvertently stumbled upon a way to post onto to threads almost invisibly whilst still bumping it. Either that or that or two rude bastards are carrying on a year old conversation without acknowledging the person who reminded them of their earlier drum based exchange.

Ya bloody bastard, I need help in the tubby-tub-thumping department, throw a guy a fricking bone!

[no_offenc]

Had I any idea of how to get started playing the drums other than the way I did (free lessons when I was at school) I'd've said... sorry.  If you're going down the book route then make sure you get one with a CD so you can see what you're playing is meant to sound like.

[Little Hoover]

I have a pearl forum series drum kit, which has the disadvantage of coming with a "crash/ride" cymbal, which isn't all that a good idea really, as it doesn't quite sound much like a crash or a ride, the bass, snare and toms are all fine though, took me a while to get the toms tuned to a good setting though, in fact I think after experimenting with loads of differrent tweaks, someone just did it for me and got it all fine.

[The Boston Crab]

I know this sounds daft but I'm buying a second-hand drumkit for about 80 quid. Yes, it's probably shit but I've been wanting to try out the drums for a really long time now but never really been in a situation where I could afford any, nor lived on my own in a suitable place. Anyway, I still don't really but there's chap flogging this kit for sod all because he's about to leave China quite urgently to return home to France, he needs to get rid pronto.

Basically, and I know this defeats the purpose, how can I realistically play these fuckers in an apartment building. Will mufflers do anything? Can I learn with brushes? I know I come across as an ignorant dork but I'm gonna take a chance on them and if it's not workable, I'll be able to sell them for at least the price I got them, if necessary. More than anything, I just want to learn and see if I've got drumming in me.

[The Boston Crab]

Nobody? :(

[dmillburn]

In my experience if you are on the ground floor you're laughing, if not then I find the biggest problem is pedal noise for the people below - even if it doesn't sound like it's making much noise when you are in the room playing it can be a right pain for the people directly below even with practise pads or mesh heads fitted. You might get away with it, depends how substantial the floor is and how tolerant they are below.

Just using brushes instead of sticks is a bad idea as they require a different technique and don't bounce like a regular stick -multi rod sticks like hotrods would be a better bet as at least that way you get some of the feel.

[The Boston Crab]

Thanks very much for the advice. Sadly I'm on the 14th floor! On the plus side, most of the apartments in my building are used as offices which means I might just get away with evening practice. I guess that in the end I'll pick them up and at least just store them until I get a more suitable place next year. My girlfriend promised me a music room if we buy a house together, so I'll probably make her my wife on that basis.

[babyshambler]

I have a mid-60s Premier kit that my grandad gave me. I haven't had the room to set them up and play for a while, but I'm moving again in a few weeks and intend to get it properly sorted out - new hardware, cymbals, skins, etc.

As for avoiding pissing off the neighbours, I've got my eye on either these rubber pad things that go over the drum heads and cymbals which deaden the sound sufficiently for practising, or these special skins that claim to reduce the volume significantly... does anyone know if these things are any good?

Can you post any pictures of your kit? I have a Premier kit I bought on ebay advertised as a 60's/70's kit when really I think it's more likely from the 80's. I bought mirror-chrome wrap and finished it myself, and also added Paiste 2002 cymbals. It's pretty beautiful!

[Go With The Flow]

So can anyone recommend any books/internet sites that can get me started.

Hey man, a book I found useful was 'The Art of The Drummer' - I can fetch you the ISBN when I go home.

no_offenc - it's cool_penguin_0 here, I sent you a PM about a drum kit but you haven't replied yet - did you get it?

[babyshambler]

Hello, my girlfriend is buying me one of those USB dumkit thingys - http://www.getinthemix.co.uk/iED05-Ion-USB-Drum-Kit.htm
I want to teach myself initially as I don't want to outlay too much dosh (although I do have a mate who is a professional drum teacher but even discounted he aint cheap). So can anyone recommend any books/internet sites that can get me started.

Thank you

I recommend the forum here for any advice:

http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/

This website for hundreds of videos:

http://www.drummerworld.com/

..and this link for the Greatest of them all!

http://i35.tinypic.com/jhydk8.jpg

[no_offenc]

The Mike Dolbear forums are pretty good as well, they have a whole subforum dedicated to eBay, like fraud spotting and so on.  Not been on there for ages but they were all pretty sound the last time I was.

[Little Hoover]

Sorry I missed your post crab, did you decide to get it, I'd say it might be worth it, if you do ever think you'll get to move into a proper house and for the time being you can just have compromised practice sessions, by dampening the hell out of the snare and bass drum and just playing it quietly.
In a way it might be better to learn that way, as you can just focus on learning the basics with less temptation to bash around.

You'll probably find the first real stumbling block when learning is seperating your arm and feet movements. when playing

[V]

This is shaping up to be very good. They have some huge names on board already.

http://www.drumchannel.com/

[chumfatty]

cheers guy, i'll be looking at those links and searching for the book.

How long  did you take you guy to become competent at whacking out basic rhythms, I'm hoping to pick it up quite easily but fear I may suck big time.

[Go With The Flow]

I think to do a basic 4/4 rhythm using three limbs indepdently it took me a good hour or so, but I had a drum teacher at the time.