Topic: Sandi Thom (The Great Rock N Roll Swindle?)

[SOTS]

The only thing that really bothers me about the song is that punk rockers don't tend to wear flowers in their hair. It's like she's got them confused with hippies and then turned it into lyrics for an irritating song.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

She's so obviously been a media creation from day one, and insultingly so. It really fucks me off that they think we'll fall for it.

[Ciarán2]

She's so obviously been a media creation from day one, and insultingly so. It really fucks me off that they think we'll fall for it.

I don't really get this point though. From "day one", surely, she was a person who wanted to make a record? Somewhere along the line, the media got involved. She wasn't created by the media. She's been manipulated by it, and she's manipulated the media for her own gain, for sure - but what's new?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

She's got  a horrible voice - the voice of a pie chart vomiting shit.

Yes she's bloody terrible. And then that song doesn't really have much instrumentation either so all you get is her horrible face and voice and lyrics with a bit of crap percussion in the background.

Chloroform- It silences people.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

But that's what makes her real. She's not some plastic popstar, maaaan.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

So? That doesn't automatically mean she's any good.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

It's the satires.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yeah I know, I just wanted to make that point as well.

[Ciarán2]

I like that new Lily Allen single which was on Popworld this morning. Sandi Thom's voice sounds a bit like Natasha Bedingfield's to me.

[Gazeuse]

I'm going to spend the summer making a record, and I'm thinking about the possibilities of using the internet to get my stuff out there.

I hope that you have better luck than me!!!

Please see my 'Direct experience of an independent artist' thread in this forum.

[Ciarán2]

I'm going to spend the summer making a record, and I'm thinking about the possibilities of using the internet to get my stuff out there.

I hope that you have better luck than me!!!

Please see my 'Direct experience of an independent artist' thread in this forum.

Yeah, I was thinking about that and it all makes it very daunting! I'll be bumping that thread to let you know how I get on. At the mo, it's at that early stage - a world of notebooks, pens, potential titles, 4 track tape machines, badly tuned basses, sketchy lyrics, contact numbers for musician friends... I'm going to buy a 4-track tape recorder, the bloke in the shop was amazed, he couldn't understand why I wouldn't want a computer-program "48 track" mixer. Anyway, I'm derailing now, but let's say that as we speak, I haven't started the building blocks of the record, I haven't even laid the foundations. But I've got planning permission. ;-)

[lazyhour]

May I ask, why do you want a 4-track tape portastudio?  I had one back in the day when it was all you could get for a decent price, and it sounded dreadful compared to what you can achieve now on the same budget.  Tape 4-tracks have a dull, sludgy, lifeless sound, and are naturally hissy.  Or maybe that was just mine.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I wanted to ask the same thing- they used to be very pricey but now music shops are just giving them away (or rather they don't sell them at all!)- what with the quality of digital recording they're quite obsolete. Unless of course you deliberately want to work in low-tech for various reasons.

Lazyhour's right as well- the damn hissing noise over everything is something you don't need and can easily do without.

I'm sure you have your reasons, and I naturally respect them and all that.

[Ciarán2]

Yes, well as I think you've guessed, it is for those lo-fi reasons. In fact, the sound I want to achieve is - well I'm not sure how to describe it really. I want it to sound hissy and scratchy. Itchy and scratchy, even. I hope to release it on vinyl. I remember hearing Stefan Betke (of Pole) talking years ago about his early records ("1", "2", "3" and "4"), they're full of pops and hiccups, he was saying that if you buy the vinyl versions of those records they'd mature over time, like a fine wine as the vinyl gets more and more worn. I thought that was great. I know he used laptops and everything to bring that about, but I like the constraints of just having four tracks to work with, and old equipment. I think it'll mean I have to use my imagination more, because I'll be constrained in that way. It's mainly going to be instrumental - just keyboards, acoustic guitar and bass. no drums on this one, at least I don't think so. But, as I've said, I'm at stage one at the moment.

[Cack Hen]

I like that new Lily Allen single which was on Popworld this morning.

I hate Alex Zane so much. I know this is me hijacking this thread a bit but I just have to vent about how much I've come to despise the man and his trendy girlfriend. He seems completely unaware of any kind of wit or even any kind of humour that doesn't derive from making people look stupid. He took AFI, who are some god awful young peoples screamy nu-metal-esque band out into the street and asked old people if they knew who they were and then sniggering and being generally smug when they said that they didn't. Simon Amstell might have sometimes been guilty of getting humour from making the celebrities look a bit thick but he was never had a malicious attitude and more often than not, the time's when the pop stars did come out of it looking bad, it was because they willingly walked into the trap.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I don't really get this point though. From "day one", surely, she was a person who wanted to make a record? Somewhere along the line, the media got involved. She wasn't created by the media. She's been manipulated by it, and she's manipulated the media for her own gain, for sure - but what's new?

It depends what you call 'day one', I suppose.

My problem with all these manufactured people is that they never seem to be manufactured with any real wit or excitement. 'I Want To Be a Punk Rocker (With Flowers In My Hair)' sounds like a clinically product-tested title if ever I heard one. It's like calling a song 'I'm In Love With Pete Doherty (But I'm Also Passionate About The Dance Scene Too)'. It reminds me of Miranda Sawyer gushing about Lily Allen:

Lily's favourite book is The Other Boleyn Girl by Philippa Gregory. Her favourite films are The Blues Brothers ('the music bits') and Animal House. She's never fallen off a barstool but she's constantly weeing on her shoes ('weak bladder'). She can put her fist in her mouth. She cooks a good roast. She votes Green in local elections, Labour in general. She loves hip hop - Ty, Bubba Sparxxx, Three 6 Mafia - but she doesn't buy CDs, just records. She loves sleeping, too: 'That's why I don't get up to go to the gym.'

Frankie Goes To Hollywood were a manufactured band driven by hype, but (a) they were genuinely funny, mysterious and exciting, and (b) the media were very cynical about them. Nowadays, manufactured bands are far more dull, but journalists play along with the hype rather than question it. That's where the 'Manufactured pop stars isn't a new thing' insistence falls down.

[Ghost of Troubled Joe]

Heard this "punk rocker" song about an hour ago on the radio- it really is a total shower, isn't it? She sounds like bloody Joss Stone. The song's rubbish. And I don't understand the need to mourn lost revolutions: why not start your own instead? At the very least it would be better (and more entertaining) than this bland, whiney crap.

[Part Chimp]

I think you'll find that back then there were plenty of Emergency Lalla Ward 10 equivalents who were saying the same thing about Frankie. If the KLF had pulled off a stunt like this I wonder if everyone here would have the same reaction as they have had to Sandi Thom. "How to Have a Number 1 the Easy Way" wasn't exactly clever, funny or sophisticated, it was mostly just full of common sense.

[Oscar]

The song's rubbish. And I don't understand the need to mourn lost revolutions: why not start your own instead?

Absocuntinglutely! Where does she think a music revolution comes from? Is she waiting for it to show up at Tescos? This "sit back and do nothing whilst whinging that no one is doing anything" attitude is the trouble with today's generation.
And that includes me too, dagnamnit!

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair
In 77 and 69 revolution was in the air
I was born too late into a world that doesn’t care
Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair

When the head of state didn’t play guitar,
Not everybody drove a car,
When music really mattered and when radio was king,
When accountants didn’t have control
And the media couldn’t buy your soul
When computers were still scary and we didn’t know everything

Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair
In 77 and 69 revolution was in the air
I was born too late into a world that doesn’t care
Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair

When popstars still remained a myth
And ignorance could still be bliss
And when God Save the Queen she turned a whiter shade of pale
My mom and dad were in their teens
and anarchy was still a dream
and the only way to stay in touch was a letter in the mail

Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair
In 77 and 69 revolution was in the air
I was born too late into a world that doesn’t care
Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair

When record shops were still on top
and vinyl was all that they stocked
and the super info highway was still drifting out in space
kids were wearing hand me downs,
and playing games meant kick arounds
and footballers still had long hair and dirt across their face

Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair
In 77 and 69 revolution was in the air
I was born too late into a world that doesn’t care
Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair

I was born too late to a world that doesn’t care
Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

This "sit back and do nothing whilst whinging that no one is doing anything" attitude is the trouble with today's generation.

Perhaps its because we've* learnt that if we're passionate about anything we'll get shot down?

*Yes, I realise I'm putting myself in "todays generation", whatever that is.

Don't you find it somewhat strange whinging about collective apathy?- You're effectively doing the same as the people you're criticizing.

And that song is still shit. It's the song itself that annoys me most rather than the lyrics.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

In an otherwise pispoor documentary abot Britpop on BBC4 last night, the theory emerged that pop these days is 'democratised' - ie, pop stars are no longer untouchable figures ready to be hero-worshipped like Hendrix or Jagger, but blank canvases onto which we can project whatever we like. Hence, Robbie Williams and Kylie Minogue - pop stars who represent both everything and nothing. I thought this point was interesting, but it was thrown out as a mere afterthought in the closing minutes of the show.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

What about Pete Doherty? Exception that proves the rule?

[Brutus Beefcake]

Those lyrics remind me of They Might Be Giant's Purple Toupee which was about someone reminiscing about a time they couldn't actually remember.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

What about Pete Doherty? Exception that proves the rule?

But he's a bit of a blank canvas too isn't he? A second-hand Sid Vicious, going through the motions, doing the things that pop stars do. It's not even his fault - he carries all the rock 'n' roll cliches around with him whether he likes it or not.

[Oscar]

Perhaps its because we've* learnt that if we're passionate about anything we'll get shot down?

We get shot down by each other mostly and anyway, what kind of defeatist attitude is that? Punks got "shot down" all the time, didn't stop them

Don't you find it somewhat strange whinging about collective apathy?- You're effectively doing the same as the people you're criticizing.

Completely and utterly, that is why I included myself in the criticism and why I include myself in this generation too (although I suspect I'm a good ten years older than you) but I'm not going to change anything unless I challenge my apathetic behaviour (which hasn't caused me to give up, but sometimes threatens too) - and nobody else is going to change while it's considered good to sit around and whinge. The first step in changing that is to challenge it. There are, of course, other steps and if I find that I'm doing nothing but whinging about other people doing nothing and whinging then I will give myself a good slapping and sort it out. Fortunately that hasn't happened yet.

[Brutus Beefcake]

What about Pete Doherty? Exception that proves the rule?

I don't see how he's an exception at all, to some people his a misunderstood poet, but to other more enlightened people he's a pathetic junkie twat.

[23 Daves]

I think you'll find that back then there were plenty of Emergency Lalla Ward 10 equivalents who were saying the same thing about Frankie. If the KLF had pulled off a stunt like this I wonder if everyone here would have the same reaction as they have had to Sandi Thom. "How to Have a Number 1 the Easy Way" wasn't exactly clever, funny or sophisticated, it was mostly just full of common sense.

Oh, come on, "Doctorin' The Tardis" was funny and ever so slightly absurd, and I don't believe for a second they knew it was going to be a hit - they were just chancing their arm, and in retrospect were able to say "Actually chaps, we knew this would be a smash all along".

A bunch of daleks made out of packing crates, the Doctor Who theme, Sweet and Gary Glitter and a talking police car from Dagenham with a pronounced accent?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdTELokKfCk  I mean, there are more ideas going on in that than Sandi Thom or her PR person has had in the last five years, I suspect.  Just the fact that they forced journalists to interview the car is enough for me to be straight on their side.  "Stick the dictaphone on the bonnet, mate".  And that's up against... someone who said she broadcast a live gig to tens of thousands of people online when she didn't.  It's not an especially good piece of hype, is it?  I'm sure Malcolm MacLaren is sleeping soundly.

Sandi Thom is also being hailed as a "revolution", not a scam.  Though if this turns out to be a Chris Morris or Bill Drummond joke, I can see I'll be rather ashamed of myself.  I do regularly consider that possibility - it's so fucking naff I sometimes wonder how it can be anything else other than a piss-take.

[Ciarán2]

I think you'll find that back then there were plenty of Emergency Lalla Ward 10 equivalents who were saying the same thing about Frankie. If the KLF had pulled off a stunt like this I wonder if everyone here would have the same reaction as they have had to Sandi Thom. "How to Have a Number 1 the Easy Way" wasn't exactly clever, funny or sophisticated, it was mostly just full of common sense.

Oh, come on, "Doctorin' The Tardis" was funny and ever so slightly absurd, and I don't believe for a second they knew it was going to be a hit - they were just chancing their arm, and in retrospect were able to say "Actually chaps, we knew this would be a smash all along".

Absolutely. You'd think that would be patently obvious. It is still a brilliant book though - thought-provoking, inspiring, witty, astute, intelligent...

I once read Cliff Richard quoted somewhere saying "Show me a person who says they can write a guaranteed hit and I'll show you an idiot". I'd say Cliff has heard that promise a few times, so I think there's something in what he says. I prefer The KLF approach myself, though. If they did plan "Doctorin' The Tardis" as they say, they're not just geniuses, they're wizards or something!

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

What about Pete Doherty? Exception that proves the rule?

But he's a bit of a blank canvas too isn't he? A second-hand Sid Vicious, going through the motions, doing the things that pop stars do. It's not even his fault - he carries all the rock 'n' roll cliches around with him whether he likes it or not.

Of course, but he's still hero worshipped.