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"...And We'll Fly-y The Fla-a-a-ag?"

Started by TJ, June 02, 2006, 11:32:34 AM

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kidsick5000

Living abroad puts a lot of things into perspective.

Britain doesnt have a day of celebration. If anything we have nicked St Patricks on the basis that its about drinking.
Every other country has some sort of National Day to basically give people the day off but also make a noise for themselves. pride etc

Any celebrations AND our national anthem are about saying 'we love you' to one person-the queen.

National anthems are usually dirges anyway, but my god, at least they say 'we are great, we are wonderful etc'. Ours? "Oh I doo hope the Queen is alright for she is soooooomuch better than us coomon lot."

Its pathetic.

terminallyrelaxed

Quote from: "chand"When I see things like that Sun cover, I realise that there's a huge proportion of this nation whose beliefs lie totally opposite to mine.

Probably not as many of them as The Sun would like you to think. I think far more of them just don't like to think about anything too deeply including Sun stories, like your mum.

QuoteI'm happy to be English, I think England is a beautiful country and I'll support the team in the World Cup, but beyond that I don't feel the need to celebrate my national boundaries.

But the flag is just something to wave while you're supporting your team. No-one's celebrating their national boundaries, this isn't about how we've got much better telly than the Italians, the French won't be shouting "English food is crap!".

QuoteWhen I see things like that Sun cover, I realise that there's a huge proportion of this nation whose beliefs lie totally opposite to mine. I appreciate there are a few things that are described as 'English values', but none of them are exclusive to us, and of course many English people believe things I can't get behind. Y'know, I find it hard to believe in the idea of a shared set of national values when I disagree with so many English people on issues like the death penalty, immigration and of course even the issue of the flag and national identity itself.

A "huge" proportion? I think you've played right into the Sun's hands. So, until we're all singing from the same song sheet any celebration would be hollow, eh? Until theres doctrine that every man woman and child subscribes to then there are no shared values? "Yeah, we've freedom, the rule of law, civil and human rights, justice and democracy but until him at No. 42 comes round to my way of thinking on vivisection there'll be no bunting round our way." So flags are only for totalitarian states? I would have thought freedom of speech and thought would be something to celebrate, empowerment of the individual. This is all just wishy-washy. And, frankly, as someone said their friend was going to do, refusing  to get into a taxi that has an english flag on it is not only bizarrely self-defeating but also just plain stupid.
Really, the flag is just about the footie, but finding it distasteful because there are racists down the road is, is, well, I can't find the words without being confrontational which isn't my aim, I just find the whole mindset utterly weird and self-flagellating. Don't get me wrong, there are many things about this place that I'm not happy about, but when England's playing they just aren't relevant. "Yes well that was a beautiful ball from Shiang-Zu, he really is a magnanimous team player which throws into sharp relief his governments human rights abuses, but wait, here comes Cole, who hails from the BNP stronghold of Watford, lets see how he deals with this foreign invader."
I mean come on, national identity? Its just our team. I might be grateful when I look around the pub at half time that it isn't a seven mile walk down a hot dusty road to the village like some of the supporters around the worlld will face, but if I was one of them I'd be waving their flag.
I don't actually own a flag, or an England shirt.

chand

Quote from: "terminallyrelaxed"A "huge" proportion? I think you've played right into the Sun's hands. So, until we're all singing from the same song sheet any celebration would be hollow, eh? Until theres doctrine that every man woman and child subscribes to then there are no shared values? "Yeah, we've freedom, the rule of law, civil and human rights, justice and democracy but until him at No. 42 comes round to my way of thinking on vivisection there'll be no bunting round our way." So flags are only for totalitarian states? I would have thought freedom of speech and thought would be something to celebrate, empowerment of the individual.

No, I'm just saying that I don't share the same values as all English people, and that indeed there are many foreigners I have vastly more in common with, so I find it hard to get flag-flying as some sort of display of unity with people who would HATE me if they met me, because I'm the type of 'liberal' that is apparently destroying this great nation. I never said flags should only be for totalitarian states, or indeed that no-one should fly them; I'm trying to say why I don't fly the flag.

I recognise that it's mostly just about football, but not in all cases, as I said, my mum doesn't care about football and she's flying the flag now.

Catalogue Trousers

kidsick5000 wrote:

QuoteBritain doesnt have a day of celebration. If anything we have nicked St Patricks on the basis that its about drinking.
Every other country has some sort of National Day to basically give people the day off but also make a noise for themselves. pride etc

By Britain here, I asume that you mean England. In which case, haven't you heard of St George's Day? April 23rd. Also William Shakespeare's birthdate.

Some breweries - whoever make Bombardier spring to mind - have made iniital, careful steps towards making St George's Day a day for beer and celebration. And with somewhat more dignity than the English version of St Patrick's Day - and more power to them for doing so.

Anyway. I'm off to spit on a football kid's car and fly my black flag. Toodle pip!

kidsick5000

Quote from: "Catalogue Trousers"kidsick5000 wrote:

QuoteBritain doesnt have a day of celebration. If anything we have nicked St Patricks on the basis that its about drinking.
Every other country has some sort of National Day to basically give people the day off but also make a noise for themselves. pride etc

By Britain here, I asume that you mean England. In which case, haven't you heard of St George's Day? April 23rd. Also William Shakespeare's birthdate.

Cant quite tell, but you are kidding right. Okay I havent lived there for a few years but I dont remember any huge St. Georges Day celebrations. Ever.
In fact its generally swept under the carpet. One of those incidental facts on the radio. "By the way, its St Georges Day today".
Well done on remembering the date though.

Marv Orange

Yeah its almost as if we are embrassed to celebrate our country when its not something to do with sport.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

What have we got to celebrate on St. Georges day anyway? Why do we need an annual reminder of what country we were born in? I haven't forgotten.

Marv Orange

Quote from: "Shoulders?-Stomach!"What have we got to celebrate on St. Georges day anyway? Why do we need an annual reminder of what country we were born in? I haven't forgotten.

Is this some standup shtick your practising?

Anyway.

It's about celebrating our national identity all getting together, having a good time and being patriotic. Using your logic why does any country have a special day.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Yes, I'm the new saviour of HIGNFY don't you know.

Borboski

St George's Day is rubbish.

St George himself:

"From his obscure and servile origin he raised himself by the talents of a parasite; and the patrons whom he assiduously flattered procured for their worthless dependent a lucrative commission, or contract, to supply the army with bacon. His employment was mean; he rendered it infamous. He accumulated wealth by the basest arts of fraud and corruption ... "

As Archbishop, "every moment of his reign was polluted by cruelty and avarice".

St George's Day gives the Sun reading proles an opportunity to moan about the Irish wearing funny hates and getting pissed on St Patrick's Day.  Now if they want to wear a funny hat and get pissed, why not.

What would you celebrate?  What are the best things this nation has done?

Hmm.. banning slavery.  Our role in the Second World War.  Industrialisation.  Women's and children's rights.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteHmm.. banning slavery. Our role in the Second World War. Industrialisation. Women's and children's rights.

We have a day to remember WWII if I'm not mistaken.

What I'm asking is why do we need a day to simulataneously remember all these things?

And how would we have remained the world leader in Industrialization without slavery and child labour eh?

Catalogue Trousers

kidsick5000 wrote:

QuoteCant quite tell, but you are kidding right. Okay I havent lived there for a few years but I dont remember any huge St. Georges Day celebrations. Ever.

But  you do realise, that if Guinness didn't hype St Patrick's Day so much over here, it'd be no different on March 17th? All of those pissheads in pubs all over In-Ger-Land probably can't stand the Irish, it's just the "justification" for getting bladdered that they like. And that's all that St Patrick's (or any other St's) Day has pretty much become - an excuse for being pissed.

I'm not sure why, but I don't even see why St Patrick cleans up in this way. There aren't huge, bellowing crowds of pissed English nobheads on St Andrew's or St David's Day either.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Well the pubs do try and get people in for St. Georges Day but it just seems so boring- like another day of the year.

St. Patricks Day is like going to a German market or something- except you're not really doing anything- just getting slightly more drunk than you usually would. But it feels like something of an occasion- the atmosphere is always good in pubs then.

Plus, we're far too modest in this country to celebrate our own achievements- preferring to just lie there, all smug.

thomasina

Quote from: "Melth"Oh, and the Sun's list of people who oppose the flying of St George ends like this:

Tesco
Over-sensitive religious leaders
Hampshire Police
Scots
So that's the 'PC Brigade', is it?  I presume Tesco are still selling flags anyway?  And that's front page news.  Fucking hell.  The only thing that bothers me is that people seem to be reading headlines like that and believing them.  A taxi driver told me that the council had ordered residents living opposite a mosque not to fly English flags.  Complete fucking fiction, but how many people actually believe this shite?  Do these fuckwits flying the cross of St George now think they're making a brave gesture for free speech in defiance of the PC Brigade?  I wish the Sun would just fuck off.

chand

I also like the idea that the Scots are opposing the flying of flags of St George for politically correct reasons.

Furthermore, I'd quite like religious leaders to be as sensitive as possible, I'd take over-sensitivity over clumsy rhetoric from a religious leader every time.

chand

The Sun unfurls massive England flag at Old Trafford, gets 'news' article out of it.

Again, commits the baffling sin of using the supposedly sacred England flag for fucking advertising, defacing the cross of St George with their own logo. Patriotism, there!

Now, far be it from me to suggest The Sun modify their quotes or suggest them to people in any way, but does anyone actually talk like this?

Quote from: "The Sun"Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell flew hers, adding: "You're right to take on the flag-ban killjoys."

Look forward to more examples of alleged flag-banning from the PC thought police!

Quote from: "The Sun"HAS your boss banned the flag? Tell us about it at talkback@the-sun.co.uk.

You can see the way it's going; people telling their employees not to drape their desks in flags for reasons of decorum (I'm not allowed to put up huge flags around my desk, but neither am I allowed to put up Page 3 babes or posters of 2Pac or whatever), which employees then report to The Sun, who tell them as YET MORE examples of KILLJOY POLITICALLY CORRECT thought policing by IDIOTS who are miguidedly afraid of scaring ETHNIC MINORITIES.

As far as I've seen, every time a story comes out that flags have been banned from cabs, it turns out that far from being PC madness, it's just people enforcing existing policies banning cab drivers from either 'advertising' or personalising their cab in anyway. You also get non-stories like this which deliberately try and give you the impression that this is an anti-England, anti-patriotism policy, when in fact the truth turns out to be that the pub chain have a long policy of not allowing any football shirts.

Heh, and it turns out people still say this without irony or satire:

Quote from: "The Sun"But one worker said: "It's political correctness gone mad."

Mister Cairo

Click on the slideshow and you can see an interesting bit of Murdoch self-promotion, which I sent to Private Eye. Also a lovely picture of Tessa Jowell sitting on her flagged car

This just in: This Morning studio in flag be-decked visual horror! Why? Well they're doing an item on the "PC gone marrrrrdddd" stuff. And that's their level headed response to it.

TJ

One day, political correctness really *will* go 'mad'. And subsequently on the rampage.

LadyDay

Scientist flags up pollution warning for world cup fans

Flying the England flag during the world cup could impact on the environment, according to experts at The University of Manchester.

Dr Antonio Filippone, an expert in aerodynamics, has found that attaching flags to the windows of cars generates extra drag and burns extra fuel.

An estimated 500,000 England fans will be decorating their vehicles with flags which attach to car windows in the lead up to the World Cup.

Dr Filippone calculates that a car flying two flags will burn up to one litre extra of fuel per hour when travelling at an average of 70mph. Based on half a million cars flying two flags, he calculates that up to 2.8m kg of additional C02 emissions will be released into the atmosphere.

He said: "The extra drag generated by these can reduce a car's fuel economy by up to three per cent during a one-hour journey. This may not seem significant to the individual, but if half a million cars are flying these flags we could see up to 1.22m litres of extra fuel burnt during the world cup."

Dr Filippone's findings are based on research into wind resistance and drag. In particular how to reduce the drag of banners attached to aircraft like those flown over major sporting events by helicopters and light aircraft.

His calculations are based on the drag caused by attaching flags to a mid-size car such as a Volkswagen Golf.