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Irritating and/or inconclusive fade-outs on tracks

Started by 23 Daves, July 26, 2006, 01:01:31 PM

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23 Daves

Listening to Syd Barrett's "Here I Go" again recently, I found myself remembering what I'd continually found frustrating about the track.  Right at the tail end, an interesting old-style fifties rock and roll guitar solo kicks in only to be rudely truncated by a rapid fade.  There was probably some logical reason for editing the song in this manner – either the solo wasn't at all inspiring in its entirety or there was a glaring error in it – but I always find myself feeling frustrated that I can't hear more.  The whole thing feels shrouded in secrecy and sounds really seriously good for a few seconds, which makes it aggravating.

It got me thinking that there are actually quite a few tracks that fade out long before they seem to have realised their full potential, or fade just as they've introduced a new exciting part.  KLF's "Kylie Said To Jason", for example, introduces a completely new segment bang on the fade-out which sounds more driving and uptempo than the rest.  I've always wanted somebody to sample that and create something new out of it.

The Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations" is yet another, which pulls in the squealing theremin only to promptly fade into oblivion.  To be fair to that track, though, it could probably have carried on happily meandering for twenty minutes for all the material Brian Wilson had to spare, and a line had to be drawn somewhere.

Fade-outs are a rather peculiar phenomenon when you think about it, and unique to rock music.  In fact, there are even archive reviews from the sixties that frowned upon their use, one review in the NME for the Lovin' Spoonful's "Summer In The City" even saying "they could at least have bothered to tie up the loose ends, though I don't suppose that will stop this doing well" (and come to think of it, that particular track does introduce some new variations at the tail end as well).

Are there any other examples of fades that leave you wanting more, or feeling aggravated that you're not allowed to hear the natural conclusion?  And really, what is the point of fades?

Great question - what is the point? Did it coincide with the burgeoning disc jockey scene? Is it a deliberate ploy to leave you wanting more?

My personal recent piss-off is on the Damon Albarn remix of Cornelius' Star Fruits Surf Rider, it fades out in about three seconds - sounds facking awful.

Ciarán2

The fade out to me always meant "in some paralell universe, this song literally goes on forever". And I absolutely love songs that fade in - my absolute favourite example being "The Bed's Too Big Without You" by The Police.

Anyway, there is a fade on "Help Me Rhonda" by The Beach Boys which irritates me, it's on the LP version I think. It fades down, then comes back for another loud stormin' chorus (2'30 - 2'40 in). Maybe it's deliberate or just badly mixed, I dunno. i always find it an interruption.

Also, of course, "Go West" by the Pet Shop Boys. The best bit of that by a mile is where Chris Lowe goes a bit sequencer crazy at the end and launches into this techno bit, but it fades out - grrr.....

Cack Hen

I think sometimes bands use it because it gives the impression of a smooth transition between tracks. To an extent, this does work but it's a bit lazy.

It's not an actual fade out but one thing that's always left me wanting more is that solo in For The Benefit of Mr Kite. It really is fantastic, but just when it starts revving up, it just cuts out! It swirls up to this fantastic looping riff that would have sounded bloody great if it went on for a while longer.

Bleh, who am I to lecture The Beatles.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I love the fade out on M83's Teen Angst. It at first disappoints you but then comes back for another storming minute at just the right point and it makes you think "Yes, it hasn't ended!"

However they cock another track up with a slow fade-out and then there's 6 minutes of extraordinarily quiet whirring and strings before a 'secret track'.

23 Daves

I've heard different versions of this, but on an EP version I have of Traffic's "Paper Sun", it fades out only to come back again very abruptly at full volume to do the conclusion!    I always liked that, it's a bit teasing - "We're going to fade out and leave you now - except we're not, because this is how the track really ends".  It's totally acapella at the tail end, which is very unusual - all you hear is a loud burst of the moaning vocal harmonies that take up the last bit of the track all by themselves.  

Then again, on other versions I've heard of it, it just simply fades out.

TJ

Quote from: "23 Daves"I've heard different versions of this, but on an EP version I have of Traffic's "Paper Sun", it fades out only to come back again very abruptly at full volume to do the conclusion!    I always liked that, it's a bit teasing - "We're going to fade out and leave you now - except we're not, because this is how the track really ends".  It's totally acapella at the tail end, which is very unusual - all you hear is a loud burst of the moaning vocal harmonies that take up the last bit of the track all by themselves.  

Then again, on other versions I've heard of it, it just simply fades out.

Do you mean Hole In My Shoe? Paper Sun does have an annoying fade, though - it whizzes out of earshot very abruptly just as the producer's voice becomes audible over the music.

23 Daves

Yep, sorry, I only logged back on here to say I actually meant "Hole In My Shoe"!  You can hear the producer (or engineer, or someone) yell "That's the one!" at the very end of the fade on "Paper Sun", though.

Toad in the Hole

Quote from: "Ciarán"And I absolutely love songs that fade in - my absolute favourite example being "The Bed's Too Big Without You" by The Police.

"Man Out of Time" by Elvis Costello does a similar thing, I seem to recall.

chand

Quote from: "23 Daves"And really, what is the point of fades?

They're fine in certain kinds of music. For me, it's usually anything which is kind of long and understated and/or ambient. For things like that, sometimes an ending can sound kind of clunky and abrupt, I've done a couple of fade-outs in my time when it just seemed to feel right to do it that way. But for uptempo kind of rock and pop songs it often just sounds shit, especially if when you're listening to it you can think of an obvious ending point which would sound way cooler.

humanleech

A fade out means that the song hasn't been fully composed.  As 23 Daves says, it's a peculiar phenomenon, but hardly ever remarked upon.
One very strange example I found recently was a fine alternative version  of 'In My Area' by The Fall, which ends perfectly after a short guitar bit at the end, which the guitarist ends very effectively. Yet on the official version the guitar bit is faded out instead of being allowed to conclude. I can't see any reason for that at all. It's like an act of self-mutilation.

Sometimes the record companies (or some idiot engineer) do it themselves. The 7" version of 'Satisfaction' by Devo ends perfectly, completely in line with the song itself. But on at least some 12" inch versions it's faded, which dramatically reduces the impact of the song. That is really odd.

Quote from: "humanleech"A fade out means that the song hasn't been fully composed

I agree with that to some extent, but it can be used effectively sometimes. I'm thinking particularly of some New Order tracks like Dream Attack or True Faith where a fade sounds perfectly natural.

One of my favourite fade-outs is Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others by The Smiths, where it creates a wonderful effect of leaving the song playing in the listners' head even after it's finished (well it does for me!). This track also has a great fade-in with a false start effect.

Suffer Little Children by The Smiths is another great fade out.

Gazeuse

Quote from: "humanleech"A fade out means that the song hasn't been fully composed.

Well, it's certainly easier to fade...Ends are tricky!!! However, I wouldn't say that it means that the song isn't fully composed. It was a convention that just happened... 3.30 then fade on the chorus. I don't think that it's anything more than that.

I particularly love ends of songs by The Buzzcocks...Always inventive!!!

Cack Hen

Quote from: "dead_johnny_walker"One of my favourite fade-outs is Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others by The Smiths, where it creates a wonderful effect of leaving the song playing in the listners' head even after it's finished (well it does for me!). This track also has a great fade-in with a false start effect.
.

Well, apparently, that was an accident. Stephen Street faded in too early or something. But they kept it.

benthalo

Quote from: "Ciarán"And I absolutely love songs that fade in - my absolute favourite example being "The Bed's Too Big Without You" by The Police.

Mine is 'Rape' by Peter Wyngarde. No, really. A fantastic orchestra sound.

spit

I believe it dates back to the 7 inch single, when a song cut at 45rpm had to be no longer than a certain length due to quality of pressing. 3 minutes, or something. That's why loads of 60s songs fade out, I think.

I think.

Derek Trucks

I have an old scratchy version of the White Album that has a few interesting differences with the common version found on CD, amongst them a Helter Skelter that dosen't fade back in after it fades out - quite an ineffective ending really, the drumrolls and screaming are very much needed for the contrast into Long, Long, Long.

humanleech

Quote from: "Gazeuse"
Quote from: "humanleech"A fade out means that the song hasn't been fully composed.

Well, it's certainly easier to fade...Ends are tricky!!! However, I wouldn't say that it means that the song isn't fully composed. It was a convention that just happened... 3.30 then fade on the chorus. I don't think that it's anything more than that.
So it's a convention not to fully compose your songs. A legacy of the era before the rise of the LP - 40 years.

The Gang of Four were stupid in some ways, but they were committed enough that every track on 'Entertainment' ends and leaves a mark.

rudi

Fading out on the chorus is believed to leave the listener singing the chorus so it's more likely t owedge in the head.

So they say.

Horses, courses etc innit mush?

Gazeuse

Quote from: "humanleech"So it's a convention not to fully compose your songs. A legacy of the era before the rise of the LP - 40 years.

Quite...But the fade WAS the end...That doesn't mean that it's not fully composed.

chand

Quote from: "humanleech"
Quote from: "Gazeuse"
Quote from: "humanleech"A fade out means that the song hasn't been fully composed.

Well, it's certainly easier to fade...Ends are tricky!!! However, I wouldn't say that it means that the song isn't fully composed. It was a convention that just happened... 3.30 then fade on the chorus. I don't think that it's anything more than that.
So it's a convention not to fully compose your songs.

Well, not necessarily. A lot of songs have endings written and even recorded but are then faded out for the final mix. I've written tracks which fade out at the end out of choice rather than because I'm too stupid to write an ending.

Goldentony

Nightrain by Guns n Roses has a pretty irritating fade out, just as the big solo starts and everything, pretty much every time they've done it live the outro and end has being fantastic so i can't imagine why they decided to fade the end out on the LP.

TOCMFIC

Quote from: "Ciarán"I absolutely love songs that fade in

Leonard Cohen's "Waiting for the Miracle" is a great example of that.

It's funny. I'm probably opening myself up for a piss take here, but whatever.

There's a recent Bucks Fizz compilation that has different mixes of a lot of tracks. Instead of fade out's there's so called "Dead End Versions". Gone is the fade out, instead the song has a definite ending.

And you know what? It fucking SUCKS!

Then there's the issue of the fake fade out. I remember when Michael Jackson's "Bad" came out on 12", somewhere on it it proclaimed it had a FALSE FADE OUT! It fades out for a few seconds, then the song comes back again, only in 12" form with bit of mix that isn't on the 7" version.

Sheriff John Indolent

'Let's Make This Precious' by Dexys Midnight Runners fades back in after three different songs. Contrary bugger, that Row-land.

Fade ins are generally quite cool. 'Black Star' by Radiohead is another good one. You imagine they've been playing that riff over and over again for hours before he comes in with 'I get home from work...'

DJ One Record

Can't believe I'm actually having to say this, but Burial's "South London Bouroughs" EP, a 2005 vinyl release, has at least two tracks that fade out poorly, the title track being the worst offender. You wouldn't think you'd have to put up with such a thing in this day and age!

Oh, and what's the name of that Talk Talk song from their later period that doesn't fade out but actually cuts off really suddenly and abruptly?

TOCMFIC

On a side note, when I was a young'un, and my parents watched Crossroads (I was about 4 I think), you had the intro music that faded out, then it faded in at the end I think. I asked what happened to the music. My Dad told me that the music just kept playing in the background, you just couldn't hear it... It was still there though... Running through the whole episode.

Maximash

Almost every song on My Life in the Bush of Ghosts should've been at least 3 minutes longer, but noooooooooooooooo! It does my head in, could've been a really great album but the length of the tracks (and the fact that they fade out, obviously) ruin it for me.

humanleech

I'm not an expert on the Beatles, but  "I Feel Fine" has an awful ending, a sort of Mmmmmm! which is very irritating.

I quite like the fade out / fade in between the tracks Strange News From Another Star and Movin' On on the eponymous album by Blur.

boki

The 7" version of Cardiacs' 'Is This The Life' has to be a contender for one of the clumsiest fades evarrr.  Right in the middle of the guitar solo, thus leaving out the best bit of the song - the guitar harmony bit (maybe it was considered too awkward for mass consumption)