Early Hip Hop

[actwithoutwords]

I remember seeing a documentary on Channel 4 about the birth of hip hop last year. I've always found the early stuff genuinely exciting, but I know very little about it, other than a couple of Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaattaa tunes. Does anyone remember what the documentary was called? And could anyone recommend some good compilations of the early hip hop stuff?
Due to my awful memory I can barely remember anything from the documentary, other than the bit about how massive a sample of Apache by the Shadows was.

[Paul's Boutique]

Due to my awful memory I can barely remember anything from the documentary, other than the bit about how massive a sample of Apache by the Shadows was.

It was actually a cover version by Michael Viner's Incredible Bongo Band.

Most early rap compilations recyle the same old stuff over and over again: The Message, Wheels of Steel, The Breaks, Planet Rock, White Lines etc. These are all classic tracks, but there doesn't seem to be much that digs deeper. Maybe "The Third Unheard" comp on Stone's Throw?

Also the hard-to-find Streetsounds electro comps are a good introduction to classic early-1980s electro:
http://www.vinylvulture.co.uk/beats/streetsounds.htm

Cool "late" early rap includes Run DMC, BDP and Mantronix, plus tons of others I can't bring to mind.

[Orias]

how massive a sample of Apache by the Shadows was.

Originally by The Shads but the hip hop sampled version is by Michael Viner's Incredible Bongo Band, and rather marvellous it is too.

For early samples, I can recommend "The Breaks" and "Block Party Breaks" series from DJ Pogo and Cutmaster Swift.

Was the series "The Hip Hop Years", a three parter with  the first episode all about the block party and the rise of Bambaataa, Kool Herc and Flash?

This collection, Hip Hop Don't Stop is darn near comprehensive
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0000AWFD7/sr=1-1/qid=1155310887/ref=sr_1_1/202-9996628-1811047?ie=UTF8&s=music

or Big Apple Rappin' from Soul Jazz has historical value too.
http://www.souljazzrecords.co.uk/releases/?id=4973

[jutl]

Was it this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0426645/

?

[Utter Shit]

I must say, I find early hip-hop unlistenably dull. I have a great respect for the people who started that movement, becuase without them there would be no Nas, no Common, no Biggie, no Big Pun...but in terms of the quality of the music, both lyrically and production-wise - not for me. In my opinion, hip-hop only starts to become interesting once you get to Rakim's era, where MCs (I'm pretty sure he was the first, correct me if I'm wrong) started to flow over a beat, rather than shouting in time with the drums the way Run DMC, Beastie Boys and others did.

[Morgan]

[mrpants]

Biz Markie was great "back in the day".

[Sivead]

I must say, I find early hip-hop unlistenably dull. I have a great respect for the people who started that movement, becuase without them there would be no Nas, no Common, no Biggie, no Big Pun...but in terms of the quality of the music, both lyrically and production-wise - not for me. In my opinion, hip-hop only starts to become interesting once you get to Rakim's era, where MCs (I'm pretty sure he was the first, correct me if I'm wrong) started to flow over a beat, rather than shouting in time with the drums the way Run DMC, Beastie Boys and others did.

I dont think thats true atall, the whole Treacherous Three, Mele Mel, Funky Four Plus One, style rap was before Run DMC's striped down flow, which is rather good indeed. Thats the thing I like about Hip Hop in it's Infancy to middle school, acts kept coming along and switching it up, changing it and raising the bar. As a example of out with the old and in with the new...

Kool Moe Dee vs. Busy Bee, there's one you should know
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=5DC2FAB541A16FFA

[DJ One Record]

how massive a sample of Apache by the Shadows was.

Originally by The Shads but the hip hop sampled version is by Michael Viner's Incredible Bongo Band, and rather marvellous it is too.

Also covered by Sugar Hill Gang some years later with the refrain "Apache! Jump on it, jump on it, jump on it..."

As someone who's more into the production element of hip-hop than the lyrics for the most part, I find most old hip-hop a bit of a chore to listen to. "Planet Rock" is an exception. I'll try to think of some others...

[quadraspazzed]

Flash, Mel & the Furious Five often get reduced to just three songs (The Message, White Lines and Wheels of Steel) - but I picked up a compilation of Flash etc and the Sugarhill Gang (2 discs, each dedicated to one group) and the Flash stuff is pretty pretty good - I would recommend Scorpio, New York New York and The Message 2: Survival. Sugarhill Gang is unfortunately not so good though.

Kurtis Blow, Whodini and Bambaattaa are three others that I like a lot. But most of my knowledge about old school comes from various compilation albums; already mentioned above is Prime Cuts' Hip Hop Don't Stop series (first two discs are old-old school for the most part). I have another one on cassette that I converted to mp3 a while ago. Can't find the tape right now, but it was called Roots of Hip Hop or something like that - had lots of great tracks, and a lot of old electro too - including probably my favourite electro track ever, Breakdance (Electroboogie) by the West Street Mob. Someone recently gave me Steinski's Burning Out of Control (Sugarhill Mix) which I haven't listened to yet, but from the tracklist it looks good.

And there are various Sugarhill (the record company) compliation CDs that have been out for a few years now.

[Hairy Chin]

If you're after stuff on the Sugarhill label, 'The Message: The Story Of SugarHill Records' is a good 4-disc set with a booklet about the rise, success and demise of the label. It also has the catalogue numbers of every single release on the label, which is probably very useful to serious collectors.
clicky

[Paul's Boutique]

Download Double Dee and Steinski's Lessons 1-3 here:

http://www.waxy.org/archive/2003/09/02/double_d.shtml

This shit is the BOMB! Turntablism Year Zero. More of this shizzle in the bootleg Ultimate Lessons volumes 1-4 CDs that you can occasionally pick-up on the high street.

Ego Trip's Big Playback is an excellent CD and book:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004SCDW.01._SS500_SCMZZZZZZZ_V1057217092_.jpg

Make sure you get the CD version with Rammallzee's Beat Bop on it - the most valuable hip hop record ever! I didn't get it and I'm kicking myself. Real next level shit, particularly for 1983.

[petercussing]

Download Double Dee and Steinski's Lessons 1-3 here:

http://www.waxy.org/archive/2003/09/02/double_d.shtml

This shit is the BOMB! Turntablism Year Zero.

The Lessons songs were made using tape loops and hardly any turntable action.

The use of a turntable as an instrument first occured in the early 20th century in combination with orchestral performances.

[Paul's Boutique]

DP

[Paul's Boutique]

Download Double Dee and Steinski's Lessons 1-3 here:

http://www.waxy.org/archive/2003/09/02/double_d.shtml

This shit is the BOMB! Turntablism Year Zero.

The Lessons songs were made using tape loops and hardly any turntable action.

The use of a turntable as an instrument first occured in the early 20th century in combination with orchestral performances.

Yes, I know, but the cut'n'paste "anything goes" aesthetic of The Lessons has been massively influential in the history of Scratch DJing/cut'n'pasting, on a par with Grandmaster Flash On The Wheels of Steel. The avant gardists/musique concretists have been less of an influence, at least directly, not least because (discounting leftfield musos like DJ Spooky) their musical aesthetic is completely different (modern classical vs. party jamz). If we accept the dusty old story of Grandwizard Theodore, "modern" scracthing wasn't invented by NY B-Boys fiending for Stockhousen, although the classical bods certainly got there first (I'm sure there's a massive wikipedia article).

There was a great Big Daddy/Grandslam article on the history of cut'n'paste which covered these themes:

http://every-day-thoughts.blogspot.com/2006/01/history-of-cutnpaste-revisited.html

So not, year zero, but pretty important records. 'Twas just a throwaway remark anyway!

[petercussing]

Arf! I was going to be more pedantic, but i can't be bothered.

I'm aware of said Big Daddy article and have read it plenty.

The lessons (plus the Shadow and cut chemist ones) are some of my fave records so i can't disagree with you there.

With regards to the avante garde/concrete influence of turntable music, tone manipulation and sampling of sound to use in a performance (bird song was first used) are their contribution. And then later there was use of repetition between turntables to sustain sounds. There was no direct scratching of the record with the hand until Theo as far as i have found out (and i've researched this a lot, hence the pedantic nature of the post) not in the same rhythmic way, at least. Just so you know (winky, etc)

=The end of the boringness=

[Paul's Boutique]

Arf! I was going to be more pedantic, but i can't be bothered.

No worries. These days I don't really bother fact-checking my posts, because I just end up quoting Wikipedia, which is wrong half the time anyway! My main reference point on cut'n'paste is a hazy-recollection of the Grandslam article (which I've read loads of times, but there's a lot to take in) and the Ultimate Lessons CD series.

Read some reviews of my own efforts here:

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9612