The Libertines on Jonathan Ross

[european son]

i probably should've posted this before it was on, but i only remembered last minute

they played fothcoming single Can't Stand Me (Live in Manchester) which was a surprise, cos the thing's clearly only half written....

also i reckon Last Post On The Bugle (Live in London) would be a better choice of lead off single, its catchy as hell, but the band was good nonetheless, despite looking horribly out of place.

cept the bastards faded them out a one chorus into Don't Look Back Into The Sun... Philistines.

oh, and Pete appears to have nicked my hairstyle.

anyone catch it? what d'you make of the new one?

[dan dirty ape]

Didnt catch it but agree on 'Last Post On The Bugle'. Great song.

[european son]

bump for an mp3 of the song actually being played on the show...

Can't Stand You (Live on Jonathan Ross)

which i picked up from some libertines fan on a fansite.... where they pointed out one of the lyrics

you cut me out and tried to blame it on the brown

which prompted me to actually listen to the song a bit closer... the lyrics are pretty damn good.... but musically the song definitely needs a bit of tightening up...

also, recent news is that Mick Jones is going to produce the second album too (whereas previously Bernard Butler was said to be going to do it)

[boki]

Erm.

They certainly weren't bad, but I can't really say I see where all this fuss is coming from, meself.  Ah well.

[european son]

but I can't really say I see where all this fuss is coming from, meself.

here and here

and though it pains me to admit it.... i'd probably have to say from here too i guess.

[european son]

video of them playing for those that missed it

a pretty hefty file at 48.8mb but worth a peek for Pete's hair and a example of BBC annoyance on the fade-out alone, and the FTP site it's on (not mine) is pretty nifty at 55kb/s odd.

and that revised verse in full

Oh no you got it the wrong way round
You cut me out and tried to blame in on the brown
Poor little boy kicked out at the world
The world kicked back a lot fucking harder

[Peking O]

Got to say, Pete and Carl seem like two of the thickest 'indie' stars to come along in quite a while. They seem quite happy to play the performing monkey for their publicist/management team, and will seemingly do anything they're told to do.

Singer banged up in jail due to burglary and heroin addiction? Let's tour America without him! Singer released from jail? Let's have an 'intimate' welcome for him from the rest of the band, the NME, photographers, publicists, etc. They certainly don't know the meaning of the word 'dignity' that's for sure.

The music just doesn't hold up either. It's a shambling mess with 'daring' lyrics about smack. Ho hum, heard it all before.

[european son]

Got to say, Pete and Carl seem like two of the thickest 'indie' stars to come along in quite a while. They seem quite happy to play the performing monkey for their publicist/management team, and will seemingly do anything they're told to do.

Singer banged up in jail due to burglary and heroin addiction? Let's tour America without him! Singer released from jail? Let's have an 'intimate' welcome for him from the rest of the band, the NME, photographers, publicists, etc. They certainly don't know the meaning of the word 'dignity' that's for sure.

The music just doesn't hold up either. It's a shambling mess with 'daring' lyrics about smack. Ho hum, heard it all before.

nah, that's all bollocks really.


- they're far more well read then your average popstar, actually, probably more so than your average bloke on the street, and probably more well read i am

- the america (and english festival) tour sans pete did not happen when he was in jail, but long before actually.

- they've changed management a while ago to alan mcghee, who frankly couldn't organise a blowjob in a brothel. the band clearly do what they want to, as shown by the babyshambles/pete gigs that happen every other weekend of his own volition

- they have two singers, pete and carl, so the slant on what you're saying is quite shifted there.... think of it as Oasis touring without Noel (which they've done all over the shop)

- the music is fucking class, and there's about one reference to smack, on one performance of one song (the version they played on the tour didn't have that line), out of their repetoire of 35 odd tracks


- yes pete is clearly a bit of a cock, but john lennon smacked his woman around, mike love joined the "family" and and phil spector (allegedly) shot a lady in the face (they think its lies!)  - that frankly doesn't make a difference to the quality of the music or the brilliance of their live performances.


to base your opinion on a band from some half-read broadsheet articles (from the factual innacuracies in your post), and one performance on the telly (from your description of the lyrics/music) is one thing. everyone's entitled to their opinion and can base it on whatever they like (of course).

but to state it with such unfllnching authority is just a bit funny like.

[Peking O]

If their manager is Alan McGhee (which I didn't know before) then that explains everything. Still desperate for some young boys to live out the rock 'n' roll cliches once again eh Alan?

[european son]

If their manager is Alan McGhee (which I didn't know before) then that explains everything. Still desperate for some young boys to live out the rock 'n' roll cliches once again eh Alan?

alan became the manager a while ago.

before the recent tour and whatnot, but after the first (and only) album, after the peteless tour, and just about after the prison thing i believe.

before that i think the management was handled by rough trade... again, hardly the max clifford of pop management.


edit:

also, this is Stereo Excursions, not Comedy Chat.... if you don't like something, you don't have to post your ill-informed disgust; it is possible to just ignore it and that. if you want to of course.... just letting you know.

[boki]

but I can't really say I see where all this fuss is coming from, meself.

here and here

Them links are like totally not working.

[Peking O]

also, this is Stereo Excursions, not Comedy Chat.... if you don't like something, you don't have to post your ill-informed disgust; it is possible to just ignore it and that. if you want to of course.... just letting you know.

No room for dissenting voices in this part of the forum then? Sorry, didn't realise that. I just thought that as this was at least the third thread I'd seen on the band in this forum that it was worth putting across a different perspective on the band. In future I'll follow theses guidelines above, sorry if any offense was caused.

[european son]

No room for dissenting voices in this part of the forum then? Sorry, didn't realise that.....

i knew you'd pull out that one.... i would be grateful if you did me the courtesy of reading this post to understand my point.

dissent all you like.... but this sneery "i'm above this sort of thing" line of reasoning, rather than an actual critique of the music, is really more at home elsewhere.

The music just doesn't hold up either. It's a shambling mess with 'daring' lyrics about smack. Ho hum, heard it all before.

fine. that was your one comment about the music, i disagreed with it and explained why, but you're welcome to your opinion, lovely...

the other 3/4 of your post was a bunch of what i believe you CC-ers called "received wisdom", and you were sniping about something you clearly know very little about.

i'm someone who doesn't know much about comedy, yet i could happily walk into a Blackadder thread and say that i really liked "Goes Forth" but not "The Black Adder" for whatever reasons.

but if i'm going to start prattling on about Ben Elton and Rowan Atkinson's personal motivations, their level of "dignity" and so on, i'd have the decency to do a bit of research first.


honestly Peking i really couldn't give a fuck what pop music you, or anyone, listens to, it's a bit of a silly thing to argue about... i went out with a girl who liked Jet for heavens sake!

but to harp on in a tacky know-it-all dismissive manner about the personalities, motivation, intellect and character of those involved when your knowledge of  these things is so clearly lacking is just horribly smug.


say that The Libertines play substandard poorly produced Clash/Kinks clones... you wouldn't be the first or the last to do so, and that's fair enough. hell, call them ugly junkie scum, i'm not really all that bothered.


instead you say that that the band are a bunch of "thick" "performing monkeys" "living out their manager's rock and roll cliches".... and it's not a giant leap from this to make the inference that their fans (who include my good self) are easily-led idiotic morons too stupid to know that the wool is being pulled over their eyes, and that they are in fact victims of a middle-aged man's wank-fantasies.

and it is that supressed implication which pisses me off.


edit: to make it readable

[european son]

Them links are like totally not working.

i take most of the tracks down after a few days (for space and also Pinball-like fear of getting sued), but will pop them back up for ya if you're interested....


they'll be up in about 10 minutes or so...

up now... i chose those two because they're my two favourite studio tracks by the band, which i reckon is a fairer way to make an impression than watching an admittedly shaky live performance or reading a couple of Guardian articles about them...

The Libertines - Up The Bracket

The Libertines - The Good Old Days

[Peking O]

.... the other 3/4 of your post was a bunch of what i believe you CC-ers called "received wisdom", and you were sniping about something you clearly know very little about.

What's a CC-er? You can say all this stuff until you're blue in the face, I still think they or their management team or whoever made sure  the whole smack/jail thing was played up for maximum publicity. They certainly don't try and promote the band on the back of the music, probably because it's distinctly average. You've twice quoted references to smack in songs in this thread and while they may indeed have over 35 songs without that kind of reference it's those you've chosen to highlight.

The latest in the hype machine is something about him hitting women aparently. I don't pore over all their press, so yes maybe some of the stuff I'm spouting here is based in half-truths, but sadly for you those are what are reaching the average punter, and I think it's being engineered to cover up musical deficiencies.

[european son]

Peking O apologies, i just rewrote my post... didn't think you'd be awake..... is it cool if you respond to the mkII version?

EDIT:

You've twice quoted references to smack in songs in this thread and while they may indeed have over 35 songs without that kind of reference it's those you've chosen to highlight.

the same quote, from the same song, as it was the only revised lyric on the song performed on the Jonathan Ross television show which this thread was about.

[Peking O]

Peking O apologies, i just rewrote my post... didn't think you'd be awake..... is it cool if you respond to the mkII version?

Wibble. Bit tired now, ah fuck it let's just leave it eh?! I can't be arsed, all a bit pointless like you say. Maybe I'll add something tomorrow.

[Peking O]

Alright, here goes....

dissent all you like.... but this sneery "i'm above this sort of thing" line of reasoning, rather than an actual critique of the music, is really more at home elsewhere.

Someone somewhere is not very keen to put them music to the forefront, hence my mentioning of things other than the music. Personally if I'd been released from jail and my management had engineered it as a publicity stunt I probably would have punced someone, but hey, that's just me.

....instead you say that that the band are a bunch of "thick" "performing monkeys" "living out their manager's rock and roll cliches".... and it's not a giant leap from this to make the inference that their fans (who include my good self) are easily-led idiotic morons too stupid to know that the wool is being pulled over their eyes, and that they are in fact victims of a middle-aged man's wank-fantasies.

I'm not necessarily accusing you of buying into these ideas, although bear in mind that I don't know you and you twice quoted lines about smack in this thread (albeit from the same song). You've given a reasoned argument on why you like the band and I can accept that it's not for some cliched rock 'n' roll rubbish reason. However, I still believe the band are being pushed in that direction by someone and they don't seem to be putting up much resistance to it. It doesn't take a huge leap to presume that the band are a bunch of performing monkeys if you have that in mind.

[european son]

Peking O i see what you're saying, but will present an argument for ya, if you're interested.

"you people here clearly like this Chris Morris chap as he's a bit of a 'rebel' eh.... well, as far as i'm concerned (as your average paper-reading punter) the man's a sick freak who makes jokes about paedohilia. that's clearly the aspect of his work that gets the most attention, so either he or his meedja assistants are clearly squeezing all the bad-boy publicity from it all.

you get off on the 'taboo' nature of the comedy, i don't find it funny, therefore it is impossible that you may find it funny. because i don't really like him, its clear that others who do must in fact be rubes falling for some of the oldest "controversial" comedy cliches in the book.

oooh a university graduate being 'funny' about drugs, death, rape, kiddy-fiddling and people with socks in their mouth

it's just controversy for the sake of controversy isn't it?

someone somewhere isn't keen to put the comedy to the forefront, hence me making references to other things... i reckon all this controversy (and i'm not just talking about the BES, but from the GLR stunts on), is a ploy to cover up for the lack of quality of the writing and presentation.

worse than all this.... this Chris Morris is clearly a tool doing what he's told in all this... i dpon't have any evidence to support that claim, especially as the man clearly appears to do what he wants, when he wants, but i'll tack that on anyway"


i like what i like, because i like it. i imagine you are the same..... when someone likes something that is clearly shit (The Stereophonics) i will loudly and clearly declare them to be a freak with no taste.

i wouldn't be cheeky enough to claim that they are deluding themselves into thinking they like "Have A Nice Day", for some extraneous reasons, especially as (and this is thankfully true), i know so little about the band that anything i say about them, music aside, is just copied from a couple of newspaper articles.

very few people go to prison on purpose, i assure you...and the only people for me intentionally gaining from the whole furore are those tomes that you get your information from.

it's those peoples jobs to sensationalise and make hay out of things like drug addiction and prison. it sells papers. the libertines sell records apart from all that. "Time For Heroes" went top 20 before any serious "controversy", and long before they became a mainstay of the broadsheets you read in forming opinions.

some people, somewhere out there ( i dig not yourself, which is fine!) must be buying those records for the music y'know.

[Peking O]

someone somewhere isn't keen to put the comedy to the forefront, hence me making references to other things... i reckon all this controversy (and i'm not just talking about the BES, but from the GLR stunts on), is a ploy to cover up for the lack of quality of the writing and presentation.

Funnily enough I think Morris (or someone associated with him) does do this. The controversy surrounding the BES certainly annuled any serious discussion on its merits as a program, at least for a while. I think that was partly drummed up to disguise poor material. The difference is that Morris is seemingly happy to fire up some controversy, let it all go off, but doesn't subsequently feel the need to justify himself one way or another.

At the moment I can't move withough seeing an interview with The Libertines in some rag or other, and most of it does seem to raise some kind of controversial issue (whether smack, jail, punching women, the band splitting etc.). Sure, people are buying the records, they're reasonably popular and so on, I just think ultimately some people (not you, I'm talking about the press) are building them up, and will be rubbing their hands with glee when they take another fall. Like you say, it sells papers. I don't think the band can protest too much when this does inevitably happen, because at the moment they're willing to suck up to any journo they come across.

[boki]

The Libertines - Up The Bracket

The Libertines - The Good Old Days

Cheers for sticking 'em back up, thought the latter was good, but I wouldn't really go out of me way to see 'em, like.

[european son]

no problem boki,

for those interested, (and i'll try to keep all the Libertines-babble to this thread, as to not upset anyone),

two new versions of tracks up for download

including a Pete-only new Can't Stand Me Now, which has totally ommited any reference to smack. like i said, its clear that the song is still half-written. i like the Jonathan Ross version best so far, but its nice to see a song being messed about with and re-written before your eyes like.


in other news, the first babyshambles single is finally getting a release

May 10.... 'Babyshambles' will be backed by 'Flophouse' on a limited run of 2,000 CD copies and 1,000 7" vinyl. The CD version will also feature an exclusive demo recording of 'What Katie Did'.

May 10th is already in my calendar as "go buy the new Morrissey single on all formats" day, so i assume i'll already be out shopping, only problem is that fuck-all copies will probably leave london.

[Peking O]

That's clearly an outrage, I mean what the FUCK.......heh, just kidding European Son ;)

[Borboski]

some people, somewhere out there ( i dig not yourself, which is fine!) must be buying those records for the music y'know.

I don't think there any shame in being a right chippy bastard.

No matter how much a band or artist appeal to you...

i) If they seem to be wankers - CUNTS! Remember, you are bankrolling their celebrity lifestyle. Always weigh this up against the reward you get from their work. If their cuntiness outweights the reward - you MUST engage in activity to put them to death.

ii) If the majority of their fans appear to wankers - CUNTS!
A) There is the opportunity that the band themselves are wankers and so encouraging this co-hort, but you have to realise this about them.
B) There is the danger that you too are a wanker and have yet to realise this about yourself.
C) By bankrolling and encouraging the band/artist, you are encouraging them to produce more material, that while providing reward to you, will gratify the bunch of wanker fans already identified. Again, weigh this up against the gratification you recieve from the artist's work. Again, if the wankers recieve more than you, you must execute the artist/band - and potentially execute all the fans too.

iii) If you only have a greatest hits.
In this case you are not actually a fan of the band. You don't need to waste your time taking an interest. This applies particularly to a lot of people who pay to see Travis/Coldplay type bands. You just want a good night out. There are better nights out. But know that in your activity you are encouraging great, great evil

[dirkfunk]

without doubt one of the worst bands of recent times

libertines feck off