"Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran" - The Times

[surreal]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2535310,00.html

ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.

Two Israeli air force squadrons are training to blow up an Iranian facility using low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, according to several Israeli military sources.

The attack would be the first with nuclear weapons since 1945, when the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Israeli weapons would each have a force equivalent to one-fifteenth of the Hiroshima bomb.

Under the plans, conventional laser-guided bombs would open “tunnels” into the targets. “Mini-nukes” would then immediately be fired into a plant at Natanz, exploding deep underground to reduce the risk of radioactive fallout.

“As soon as the green light is given, it will be one mission, one strike and the Iranian nuclear project will be demolished,” said one of the sources.

The plans, disclosed to The Sunday Times last week, have been prompted in part by the Israeli intelligence service Mossad’s assessment that Iran is on the verge of producing enough enriched uranium to make nuclear weapons within two years.

I realise that this is probably just a leak of plans that every country makes for all eventualities, but with Iran's recent sabre-rattling and calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map" you can understand them getting a bit twitchy...   I can't see the US letting Israel do this tho', so why even consider the option?  Surely it would be asking for Israel to be attacked from all sides

[Pinball]

I reckon the US would be happy for Israel to take the flak on this, but Israel absolutely will have to get US permission first. I certainly believe that Israel will attack the Iranian facilities at some time in the near future, although I'm surprised they need a nuke to do so. They didn't when they attacked the French-made nuclear reactor in Iraq, did they? But then that wasn't built to modern standards I guess, in light of known (conventional bomb, at least) bunker-busting capability..

[surreal]

Maybe an attack from Israel can be done quicker, rather than the US having to prepare a giveaway build-up of equipment beforehand - mind you, they are sending more troops to Iraq so maybe they're planning a ground offensive into Iran sometime in the future....

[Marv Orange]

Maybe an attack from Israel can be done quicker, rather than the US having to prepare a giveaway build-up of equipment beforehand - mind you, they are sending more troops to Iraq so maybe they're planning a ground offensive into Iran sometime in the future....

Doubt that'll happen any time soon, America's voters need a cooling down period before another conflict starts. So I can understand if Israel does it  after getting the nod from the states.

Although perhaps Bush wants to go out with a BANG.

[Artemis]

The scary thing is you can just see Israel doing something like this, couldn't you? Having sought permission covertly from the US, of course. The UK would probably be in on it to, although feign surprise when it happens.

If Israel really do take it upon themselves to do something like this, they'll deserve everything they'll inevitably have coming at them.

[Huzzie]

If Israel really do take it upon themselves to do something like this, they'll deserve everything they'll inevitably have coming at them.

But who will deserve it? The civillians that will no doubt fact the brunt of Iraq and co's anger?

I would really like to believe that the human race is mature enough to avoid this now but all recent evidence points to the contrary.

[surreal]

But who will deserve it? The civillians that will no doubt fact the brunt of Iraq and co's anger?

That is exactly the thing - the people at the top who make all the decisions never get what is coming to them, its always the population that suffers...

[Brutus Beefcake]

I just hope Israel hold a conference afterwards to debate wether it actually happened.

[sproggy]

Israel is America's clique after all.

Hardly surprising really, it was only last week (or the week before) that Israel finally admitted to possessing American nuclear missiles.  They will probably have to fly the long way around 'cos I can't see Iraq allowing them to pass through their airspace, it would be political suicide.  Unless it is American aircraft that actually do the dirty.

I really would not like to be a Westerner in Iraq or Afghanistan if it does happen.

[danielreal2k]

That seems like a suicidal decision to me, they seem very confident Iran wouldnt fire back.

[micanio]

That seems like a suicidal decision to me, they seem very confident Iran wouldnt fire back.

Iran might not, but Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya just might....

[ccab]

That seems like a suicidal decision to me, they seem very confident Iran wouldnt fire back.

Iran might not, but Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya just might....

The Sunni nations wouldn't be too unhappy to see the Persians get a kicking. Iran's a sufficiently dangerous proposition in itself - with a fairly powerful military with modern Russian and Chinese hardware - ballistic missiles - with a sympathetic ethnic majority just across the border in Iraq - together with large American troop concentrations - and more generally, innumerable oil and gas fields depended on by the West & indirectly the world's economy. I don't think this will dissuade Israel - even though attacking Iran would inevitably involve a fierce Iranian retaliation and war with Hezbollah in Lebanon - they're too terrified of the prospect of a nuclear counterweight in the Middle East compelling them to behave themselves.

Robert Fox wrote briefly about this last week in the First Post.

Is war in the script for Iran?



The British media appears to be softening us up for an attack on Iran, says robert fox    

S
uddenly the smell of Britons being prepared for an attack on Iran is all pervasive. On Radio 4 this week, the BBC's political editor Nick Robinson hosted a bizarre 45-minute round-table on how Britain would react if America and Israel went ahead and bombed Iran. Broadcast on Wednesday and repeated tomorrow, it was pitched as a discussion of hypothetical 'what ifs'.

The next morning, Anatole Kaletsky, of the Times, wrote a column about Blair and US-Israeli-Saudi plans to trash Iran. Yesterday's Spectator went further. In its cover story, it states that Israel is planning to use nuclear strikes to stop the Iranian nuclear industry. It is not a question of if but when Israel will launch its missiles and bombers, we are told.

What is going on? The facts as far as we know them - based on inquiry, investigation and real sources - are these:

The Israelis, according to the strategic think tank at Tel Aviv University, stated last month that the only way to stop Iran getting operational nuclear weapons was by military strike. There are only four or five months left in which this might be done successfully, and if the US won't help Israel to do it, Israel will go it alone. US Vice-President Dick Cheney is signed up to this, and is trying to persuade George Bush.

The US military has drawn up the war plans for a strike on Iran, according to British intelligence sources. However, the chiefs of all three US armed services have told Bush not to do it. "The Americans have no serious human intelligence on the ground in Iran," a senior British commander told me recently.

As I reported on November 1, the British Army Board looked at intelligence assessments of Israeli proposals to attack nuclear sites in Iran. The briefing paper estimated this would "cause hundreds of thousands of casualties".

The Israelis and their supporters who continue to argue for an attack do so because they believe they successfully thwarted Saddam's nuclear weapons plans with their pre-emptive strike on the Osirak plant outside Baghdad in 1981. In fact, according to one of Saddam's leading nuclear scientists, Jafar Dia Jafar, the raid only encouraged Saddam to press ahead with his nuclear programme rather than stop it.

Tony Blair also believes in action. He asked an audience in Dubai last month: "When are you going to do something about it?" Yet neither Blair nor the Radio 4 panel discussed the likely consequences of an attack on Iran.

The fact is, any such strike is likely to halt the oil flow through the Gulf - and trigger a world recession. Iran is likely to attack the offshore gas fields and terminals, knocking out about one-third of the world's gas supply. This in turn could provoke global conflict and make Russia the energy superpower.

Nick Robinson's panel seemed oddly unmoved about the disaster they were considering - not surprising from three of the speakers, Sir Stephen Wall and Sir Jeremy Greenstock formerly of the Foreign Office, and former Tory foreign secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind, whose peacemaking efforts for the Balkans under John Major veered from the moderate to downright dismal.

The other two were Reuel Marc Gerecht, one of the saner hawks of the American Enterprise Institute, who was the only one to question the feasibility of an American-Israeli strike on Iran, and George Pascoe-Watson.

George Pascoe-who? George is the newly elevated political editor of the Sun. What was he doing in Robinson's 'hypothetical' symposium on World War III? His main contribution was to say that an attack on Iran would be "a huge new story, a scoop any journalist would love to get his hands on". His presence seemed straight out of the Alastair Campbell handbook on the doctrine of spin.

Our political and BBC masters are up to something. I hope to God I am wrong about all this, but I fear I'm not. Unfurl those banners, fellow protesters, and prepare to march.

[Wilbur]

This has been debated and was part of  "The plan" way back.

Will it work eeerm I suspect not without subscription.


We will see. Interesting times

[Sovereign]

I think the mere fact that nuclear war is being contemplated openly is perhaps the most worrying thing of all. Even if it is totally hypothetical and stuff, its an incredible stark reminder of how dangerous the world has become in the 7 years since George W Bush took power.

[surreal]

Robert Fox wrote briefly about this last week in the First Post.

George Pascoe-who? George is the newly elevated political editor of the Sun. What was he doing in Robinson's 'hypothetical' symposium on World War III? His main contribution was to say that an attack on Iran would be "a huge new story, a scoop any journalist would love to get his hands on". His presence seemed straight out of the Alastair Campbell handbook on the doctrine of spin

I think that quote says it all - that's all the media sees this as which is all the Britsh public gets fed, and why there is general apathy in this country.  As long as we can watch a bunch of cunts locked in a house, no-one cares about anything else.  Orwell wrote in 1984 about the state keeping the proles happy and stupid with the lottery, manufactured music and entertainment.  How ironic that the main focus of this is so named because of his book....

[Alberon]

I think Israel is just sabre-rattling at the moment. What they're talking about is using tactical nuclear 'bunker busters' to reach the deeper sites of Iran's nuclear programme that conventional weapons can't, though that might just be to try and prod the Americans into action.

I can't believe israel would go nuclear in a first strike, even with tactical devices a 1/15th the strength of the Hiroshima bomb. I do think they're prepared for convential strikes to stop Iran's nuclear programme and they do only have a fairly short window to do it. Israel does seem commited more than ever to keeping Iran non-nuclear and diplomacy is clearly a non-starter.

If Israel really did drop the bomb, even a small one, it isn't just Israel that would suffer. Middle Eastern outrage would be targeted at the entire West.

[hoverdonkey]

So, destroying a nuclear facility with a nuclear weapon because you are concerned that the other side will use their nuclear weapon on you when they get the chance. Mmmm

[biggytitbo]

Robert Fox wrote briefly about this last week in the First Post.

George Pascoe-who? George is the newly elevated political editor of the Sun. What was he doing in Robinson's 'hypothetical' symposium on World War III? His main contribution was to say that an attack on Iran would be "a huge new story, a scoop any journalist would love to get his hands on". His presence seemed straight out of the Alastair Campbell handbook on the doctrine of spin

I think that quote says it all - that's all the media sees this as which is all the Britsh public gets fed, and why there is general apathy in this country.  As long as we can watch a bunch of cunts locked in a house, no-one cares about anything else.  Orwell wrote in 1984 about the state keeping the proles happy and stupid with the lottery, manufactured music and entertainment.  How ironic that the main focus of this is so named because of his book....

Very true. For all the talk of a free press in this country when it comes to the crunch they are just cheerleaders for the establishment. Their record in questioning the government and holding them to account since 9/11 has been absolutely shameful. Time and time again they've pedded the government lies and progaganda about Iraq, Iran, WMD, David Kelly, July 7th, Al Qedia, terrorism, ID cards etc without properly questioning what they're reporting.

They'd much rather scare us witless with the latest government manfactured  hysteria about Iran nuking the world and dirty bombs and terrorism, which on calm reflection are often revelaed to be lies and nonsense.  

Or as you said dull our brains to a mush with Jade Goodie and ice skating celebrities so we're so apathetic we don't care what they do anymore.

[Marv Orange]

Or as you said dull our brains to a mush with Jade Goodie and ice skating celebrities ..

where? what channel!??!?!?

[Whug Baspin]

Or as you said dull our brains to a mush with Jade Goodie and ice skating celebrities so we're so apathetic we don't care what they do anymore.

Hmm you're not by any chance another of those 9/11 truth people are you?

[biggytitbo]

Or as you said dull our brains to a mush with Jade Goodie and ice skating celebrities so we're so apathetic we don't care what they do anymore.

Hmm you're not by any chance another of those 9/11 truth people are you?

I don't think so? If you mean those who think the twin towers were brought down with controlled explosions and things like that then no I'm not.

I've encountered a lot of those types on internet messages boards too and their lack of basic logic regarding their theories is amazing. Worryingly, millions of people do seem to believe in these theories and all it serves to do is muddy the water and make getting real answers harder. In fact, it's seems to me that many of these conspiracy theories are actively fanned by those genuinely with something to hide. It then makes it very easy to tar anyone who dares question the governments actions and motives with the same looney internet conspiracy brush, which i'd hope isn't what you're trying to do.

Having said that i do believe there was some kind of conspiracy regarding 9/11 and subsequent events, just one that's far more complicated and intangible than the usual rubbish you read.

[Whug Baspin]

Sorry for potentially lumping you in with that group. I just get heckles when people start talking about how we are all in this grey mush or somehow can't see some universal truth because Jade Goody and Heat magazine exist.

[biniput]

There has been talk and planning for a strike for at least 30 years in Isreal.  The problem is to do with Zionism.  Almost ALL problems in Isreal revolves around the first 5 years of its existance.  The main thing is that the Isrealies want 90%+ of the worlds jews Ghettoed, sorry together, inside Isreal as soon as possible and there are orgainisations out there trying to persuade Jews around the world to do so.  It is all about the fact that there are still so many non jews living there and they want a jew only state.  This isn't acceptable and I don't know how they get away with even thinking of creating such a state.  The problem is that if Iran gets the bomb then Isreal will feel less safe and no one will want to go and live there.

Links on the background.  Read the ALL and you have a clue whats going on there.

Isreali apartheid
http://www.counterpunch.org/bisharat01042007.html

Just one of ways Isrealies NOT neccassarily US jews are influencing US life.
http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein12282006.html

More of the above.
http://www.counterpunch.org/moses12282006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein12082006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/cook12142006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/makdisi12202006.html

This is run of the mill Isreali Govm't behaviour.
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitbeck12212006.html

[biggytitbo]

There has been talk and planning for a strike for at least 30 years in Isreal.  The problem is to do with Zionism.  Almost ALL problems in Isreal revolves around the first 5 years of its existance.  The main thing is that the Isrealies want 90%+ of the worlds jews Ghettoed, sorry together, inside Isreal as soon as possible and there are orgainisations out there trying to persuade Jews around the world to do so.  It is all about the fact that there are still so many non jews living there and they want a jew only state.  This isn't acceptable and I don't know how they get away with even thinking of creating such a state.  The problem is that if Iran gets the bomb then Isreal will feel less safe and no one will want to go and live there.

Links on the background.  Read the ALL and you have a clue whats going on there.

Isreali apartheid
http://www.counterpunch.org/bisharat01042007.html

Just one of ways Isrealies NOT neccassarily US jews are influencing US life.
http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein12282006.html

More of the above.
http://www.counterpunch.org/moses12282006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein12082006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/cook12142006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/makdisi12202006.html

This is run of the mill Isreali Govm't behaviour.
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitbeck12212006.html

Thanks for the links. It's quite disturbing how the US in particular is kept in the dark about Israel's behavior. There's a website I saw a while ago that monitors US media coverage of Israel and shows how vastly it differs from the facts as reported to the rest of the world. I'll try and find the link.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Yeah Israel feels threatened by Iran getting a nuclear weapon because people might stop moving there to live. Hmm, nothing to do with the fact that Iran's president has expressed his wishs to wipe Israel off the map and the fact that Iran sponsors and arms Hezabollah and Hamas both terrorist groups whose main aim is the destruction of the state of Israel. Thanks fuck Israel attack Iraq's Osirak reactor in 1981 because who knows what would have happened if Saddam had achieved his aim of getting Da Bomb.

Also saying there are 'plans' to strike is a tad vague. Most militaries in the world plan out possible scenarios so they can cover all eventualities. I'm pretty sure the US has wargamed the invasion of Iran for instance.

[biggytitbo]

Yeah Israel feels threatened by Iran getting a nuclear weapon because people might stop moving there to live. Hmm, nothing to do with the fact that Iran's president has expressed his wishs to wipe Israel off the map and the fact that Iran sponsors and arms Hezabollah and Hamas both terrorist groups whose main aim is the destruction of the state of Israel. Thanks fuck Israel attack Iraq's Osirak reactor in 1981 because who knows what would have happened if Saddam had achieved his aim of getting Da Bomb.

Also saying there are 'plans' to strike is a tad vague. Most militaries in the world plan out possible scenarios so they can cover all eventualities. I'm pretty sure the US has wargamed the invasion of Iran for instance.

Not that old chesnut again. That quote has been trotted out by neocon warmongers and their cheerleaders so often its almost become a mantra. What he actually said was something more like 'the regime in Jerusalem must be erased from the page of history'.

That's not to say Ahmadinejad isn't a buffoon who hates Israel - he is, and he says whatever he knows will annoy them the most, but if the West wasn't so solipsistic it might be able to see just why so many countries in the region hate Israel.

We're been relentlessly spun here by those who want to attack Iran before they become powerful enough to upset the power balance in the Middle East away from the  Americans and Israel.  The idea that we can trust anything the mob in the US have to say about Iran is laughable after Iraq - they're liars. Big fat dirty shameless liars and they're trying it yet again with Iran and it seems some people are stupid enough to fall for it.

[Wilbur]

Big fat dirty shameless liars and they're trying it yet again with Iran and it seems some people are stupid enough to fall for it.

So whats new?

The US is, by their own admission, building bases all over the middle east .

Dunno the answer.