The 10th anniversary of Brass Eye.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Brass Eye's tenth anniversary also marks a decade of there being no decent comedy on TV.

Stop saying things like that. Knowing Channel 4 they'll probably ignore the tenth anniversary of BE but release a 10th anniversary of BES, hailing 'it's the 10th anniversary of paedophilia!!' on the cover.

The 'Cowsick' segment of the 'Crime' episode sticks out as the main highlight of Brass Eye for me. At some point in the episode, it just goes on this flawless run of hilarity that probably does beat anything in the last ten years. It doesn't mean that all comedy since then has been crap, it just shows how damn good it was. Ted Maul announcing the council estates goldmine "actually worked for a bit this, until they clogged it up with sick" never ever fails to make me laugh.

It does deserve a The Day Today style DVD package, as the one on release at the moment is shameful.

[rudi]

Brass Eye's tenth anniversary also marks a decade of there being no decent comedy on TV.

It's not even as if this hasn't been disproved on more than one occasion, leading to "well -  that was commissioned before then" and "yes, but that wasn't the first series" style backtracking.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Do you not agree that, in spite some occasional good shows along the way, Brass Eye still marks a high point in British comedy that hasn't been equalled since?

[AC]

Can I just take this opportunity to moronically ask just how tall Morris is? It's just a twatty little thing that I've wondered for a while. Is it known?

[rudi]

Do you not agree that, in spite some occasional good shows along the way, Brass Eye still marks a high point in British comedy that hasn't been equalled since?

That's an entirely different statement though, isn't it?

[Chris Chopping]

Do you not agree that, in spite some occasional good shows along the way, Brass Eye still marks a high point in British comedy that hasn't been equalled since?

I love Brasseye but I prefer The Armando Iannucci shows.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Do you not agree that, in spite some occasional good shows along the way, Brass Eye still marks a high point in British comedy that hasn't been equalled since?

Oh certainly. But that strikes me as a totally different statement. You can't say 'a decade of no decent comedy on TV', unless you have some idea of what constitutes decent and what constitutes magnificent. Spaced is decent, Father Ted is magnificent...

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

The thing is, I often suspect a lot of us are on the same side, we all think there's something rotten in the state of British comedy, and yet we quibble over semantics. Which would be fine if those same people strongly disagreed, but often it just amounts to 'Ah-hah, you said this!' point-scoring for the sake of it.

I defy anybody to re-watch Brass Eye and not walk away thinking 'That's comedy of a quality and power that's unimaginable today'. Every comedy show since has simply taken one string from Brass Eye's bow and produced diminishing returns - nobody's equalled it, topped it, or (heaven forbid) turned it on its head.

We can have endless debabtes about whether People Like Us or The Armando Iannucci Shows were excellent, decent or mediocre, but I'd be interested if anyone actually thinks 1997-2006 hasn't shown a general decline in the quality of British comedy. Even Iannucci's six-year-old series wouldn't get made today, so use that as the bar if you like.

We all watch Blunder and shudder. The question is, are we interested in working out why shows like that continue to exist, or why there isn't a British version of Wonder Showzen? Because I reckon you can see in Brass Eye (a) examples of everything we've lost, and (b) examples of everything that mediocre comedians have sold to us in increasingly diluted ways since. It's all there. The last really angry comedy show. The last comedy show to give a fuck. The last comedy show to make you uncontrollable with excitement at the prospect of its unpredictable contents. The last comedy show to have 'Answer Prancer' moments.

If anyone actually thinks British comedy is fine, or feels optimistic about its future, then I'd love to hear their reasoning.

[thewomb]

Why does it matter if a show is British or not?

[The Region Legion]

Won't it just be a little bit of history repeating? You had Monty Python rebelling against the old guard in the 70s and you had Chris Morris/Iannucci et al rebelling against the old guard in the 90s. It's only a matter of time before the next one comes along, I think.

A hugely simplified simile obviously, but I hope my point is clear - that there's always been an undercurrent of shit mediocrity and great programs just stand out amongst the dross. We're just going through a period of crap so that the next bunch of comedians can get suitably angry about it.

[Brutus Beefcake]

The thing is, I often suspect a lot of us are on the same side, we all think there's something rotten in the state of British comedy, and yet we quibble over semantics. Which would be fine if those same people strongly disagreed, but often it just amounts to 'Ah-hah, you said this!' point-scoring for the sake of it.

It's not just that.  I agree with most of the points you make and it annoys me when you make silly statements that reflect badly on your otherwise reasonable position.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

A hugely simplified simile obviously, but I hope my point is clear - that there's always been an undercurrent of shit mediocrity and great programs just stand out amongst the dross. We're just going through a period of crap so that the next bunch of comedians can get suitably angry about it.

It seems to have gone on for a long time, though. I worry that the industry is now so obsessed with branding/road-testing, and so terrified of anything that looks unmarketable, that a 'new guard' just wouldn't get anywhere.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Why does it matter if a show is British or not?

Because I'd like to hear comedy about British things.

[Sheldon Finklestein]

Ah, I was about to say the same thing. For example, my favourite comedy show of recent years has to be Arrested Development. But there are so many cultural in-jokes in the show that mean nothing to me, just like Brass Eye would probably mean little to an American. For one thing, they'd probably praise it for it's restrained journalistic style (SATIRE).

[butnut]

Won't it just be a little bit of history repeating? You had Monty Python rebelling against the old guard in the 70s and you had Chris Morris/Iannucci et al rebelling against the old guard in the 90s. It's only a matter of time before the next one comes along, I think.

I used to think this myself. But it feels like I've been waiting a very long time for the next wave of youngish people to come along and knock my comedy socks off. If Morris and Iannucci were in the last wave in the early to mid 90s, I've been waiting for a over a decade now. I do hope they'll hurry up!

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I remember Ned Sherrin on Loose Ends asking Lee and Herring why they kept having a go at Ben Elton. Herring said that this was what comedians of each generation did - just as Elton had mocked Benny Hill, it was their job to mock 80s comedians.

This seems to have stopped. Nobody's mocking Simon Pegg or The League of Gentlemen, let alone Iannucci and Morris. There's this horrible assumption that successful comedy equals good comedy.

[thewomb]

Why does it matter if a show is British or not?

Because I'd like to hear comedy about British things.

Is that it? Seems a bit of an arbitrary reason to hope for a revolution, when you could be enjoying all the wonderful comedy that taps into what is universally funny.

[Timmy O'Toole]

That's the problem with kids today, too much respect for their elders.

[Sheldon Finklestein]

Why does it matter if a show is British or not?

Because I'd like to hear comedy about British things.

Is that it? Seems a bit of an arbitrary reason to hope for a revolution, when you could be enjoying all the wonderful comedy that taps into what is universally funny.

Because very few things are universally funny. Only the broadest slapstick could be described as such. And if you really believe that there's no benefit to watching comedy made in your own country, I'd ask: Who's your favourite German comedian? Or Nigerian? Or Thai? Comedy plays on shared experiences, and cultural experiences are a huge part of that.

[Chris Chopping]

This seems to have stopped. Nobody's mocking Simon Pegg or The League of Gentlemen, let alone Iannucci and Morris. There's this horrible assumption that successful comedy equals good comedy.

Do Morris and Iannucci really desrve it though?

I used to think about this. About how much I loved comedy and how I'd like to be part of it. But I was aware that great comedy seemed to react against old comedy and because I liked so much comedy I figured I could never be a great comedian. However, in recent years shows like Blunder, Tittybangbang and Little Britain really give people something shit to react against. Hopefully someone with a similar attitude is out there starting the revolution.

[Brutus Beefcake]

Did Elton really deserve it? (Back then at least)

[Chris Chopping]

I dunno.

The point is, modern some modern comics(Lucas, Walliams, Thomas) do. Do you think someone will take them to task or are we too far gone for anyone to break through?

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I remember Ned Sherrin on Loose Ends asking Lee and Herring why they kept having a go at Ben Elton. Herring said that this was what comedians of each generation did - just as Elton had mocked Benny Hill, it was their job to mock 80s comedians.

That seems like an odd way of putting it. I don't think mocking the previous generation should be done as a matter of course, it should be based on a genuine measure of disdain for the subject. Taking the piss out of Morris for going bad and making Nathan Barley is one thing, but going around saying "Brass Eye anyone?" would just be rubbish.

[rudi]

Did Elton really deserve it? (Back then at least)

Back when?

Who's your favourite German comedian?

Hermann Bräuer

Or Nigerian?

Francis Agoda

Or Thai?

Laila Boonyasak


Ha! That told you.

Google told you

[Tommy Trumpet]

I remember Ned Sherrin on Loose Ends asking Lee and Herring why they kept having a go at Ben Elton. Herring said that this was what comedians of each generation did - just as Elton had mocked Benny Hill, it was their job to mock 80s comedians.

That seems like an odd way of putting it. I don't think mocking the previous generation should be done as a matter of course, it should be based on a genuine measure of disdain for the subject. Taking the piss out of Morris for going bad and making Nathan Barley is one thing, but going around saying "Brass Eye anyone?" would just be rubbish.

Agreed, it just seems juvenile to mock the last generation of comedians "just because".  It's not as if anyone wants to see a new comedy show devoted entirely to mocking other comedies, is it? Surely the way to react against old comedy is just to make a great show that has your own fresh identity and doesn't follow the style of previous shows. It's not as The Day Today was full of sketches mocking Ben Elton (as far as I noticed, anyway).

[Brutus Beefcake]

Did Elton really deserve it? (Back then at least)

Back when?

When Lee and Herring were first doing it.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

if you really believe that there's no benefit to watching comedy made in your own country, I'd ask: Who's your favourite German comedian? Or Nigerian? Or Thai?

But there's (literally) a world of difference between American comedy making a few references that I don't get and people doing comedy in a totally different language.

I'm interested to know more about Lee and Herring's Ben Elton bashing too. Were they just doing it for the sake of ridiculing the previous generation or were they criticising his work?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Agreed, it just seems juvenile to mock the last generation of comedians "just because".  

Indeed, but it's just one problem among many - the reverence that modern comedians seem to have for one another (in public at least). The assumption that anything made after 1994 is unconditionally fantastic. The end-of-history idea that 'we've worked out how you do comedy now'. There doesn't seem to be any tension any more.

The lack of comedians mocking other comedians isn't the only problem, but it's a mini-problem which points to the bigger problem. Which is surely the inability of comedians to make:

a great show that has your own fresh identity and doesn't follow the style of previous shows.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Incidentally, I recall being a bit taken aback by Herring's defence of Elton-bashing, thinking 'But...surely Ben Elton's quite good? And anyway, Elton had issues with Benny Hill because of sexism, not just because he thought he was rubbish.'

Which is presumably the way that a Simon Pegg fan would react to a comedian using Herring's argument to justify a savage Hot Fuzz parody. 'But...surely Simon Pegg's quite good?' Much as Elton-bashing annoys me, I wonder whether pouring scorn on the previous generation is an essential part of what keeps new comedy alive, and whether we lose it at our peril.

The trouble is, I'm not sure whether those generational divisions exist in the same way any more. The Office, Green Wing and The League of Gentlemen have fans of all ages, which means mocking them is more complex. You'd have to spell out why you were mocking them. Which might be more interesting. But nobody does it.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Is that it? Seems a bit of an arbitrary reason to hope for a revolution, when you could be enjoying all the wonderful comedy that taps into what is universally funny.

The reason why I lament the lack of British comedy is because I'm not one of these 'I don't care where my jokes come from so long as I laugh' types. That's akin to saying 'I don't care where my wine comes from so long as it gets me pissed' - fine up to a point, but it doesn't acknowledge that there's pleasure in variety; pleasure in knowing that you can get x from one place and y from another.

I'd like to see a genuinely funny satire show on British TV. Why? Because I'd like to see British news stories being satirised. It's not enough to say 'watch The Daily Show', as if satire's a uniform global product.