The 10th anniversary of Brass Eye.

[4 arses]

I'd like to see a genuinely funny satire show on British TV. Why? Because I'd like to see British news stories being satirised. It's not enough to say 'watch The Daily Show', as if satire's a uniform global product.

Just out of curiousity, I always think of the Daily show as a mix of The Day Today, with the sections from the more wacky reporters, and That was the week that was, with the more topical aspects of that show (bear in mind this is a gross generalisation). In other words almost all the humour in the show has been stylistically similar to other British shows but is fresher because of the American angle to it.

So would you be happy with a show that borrowed liberally from shows like the 2 mentioned above and succeeded in being funny, despite a feeling of it having been done in a similar format before? Or does a new show have to bring something fresh?

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Of course in the music world there seems to be no shortage of new acts willing to have a pop at others. It's usually shit like Razorlight who do this though.

[Paranormalhandy]

Mogwai were always quite good at slagging off other bands, iirc.   Okay, they were a bit righteous and weary (and their love of Slint, Spacemen 3, Sonic Youth etc. could be very tiresome), but at least they genuinely meant it when they attacked Moby for pissing on the grave of gospel, or annoyed Manics fans by supporting them while wearing Kappa tracksuits.  With Razorlight, you suspect slagging off other bands is either (a) something written into their business plan, or (b) the fall-out from some drunken night in Camden.

Also, Razorlight appeared in the Mighty Boosh.  Now, much as I like the Boosh, the screen at that point just fairly glowed with sickeningly mutual "aren't we alternative?" sad hangover-from-Britpop admiration.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

Much as Elton-bashing annoys me, I wonder whether pouring scorn on the previous generation is an essential part of what keeps new comedy alive

Surely that can just as easily undermine a performer. Having watched 'Boring' just night for the first time in forever I may be slightly charged up over this, but there's more ideas in that episode than Herring has had in his entire life. It's like Dave Hill saying 'George Harrison anyone?' Bitterness and (I suggest) professional envy has nothing to do pushing the frontiers of anything. Did Python have to go round attacking the comedians of the previous generation? Course not, it's ideas not gripes on which greatness depends.
It'd be odd and a bit nasty to say the least, if a performer, knowing he's galaxies away from turned on another performer, Maradona saying 'George Best anyone?' for instance. But does really believe Herring thinks he's produced better comedy than Elton? Does Herring believe it himself? And the bollocks about Elton 'selling out', from the Ting Tong, Best Man's Speech, Heather Mills gagging Herring is beyond ironic.
Sometimes such behaviour is excusable, if a joint endeavour is undertaken. I'm reminded of Roy Keane's outburst at Mick McCarthy "you were a shit player, you're a shit manager..." etc. Keane was right, he was defending the other players, he was compaigning on their behalf and on behalf of his nation's interests as a whole. This is not the case in comedy, even with a better comedian slagging off a worse one, never mind the other way round.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I'm not one of these 'I don't care where my jokes come from so long as I laugh' types. That's akin to saying 'I don't care where my wine comes from so long as it gets me pissed'

Surely it's about the quality of the comedy / wine that matters, and how much you enjoy it, not where it comes from.

Yes, I'd like some quality British comedy too, but if it's not being made, it doesn't bother me as long as some great comedy (Arrested Development, Curb) still is.

If you really don't like anything other than British comedy, I just wouldn't ever be able to take your opinions seriously again, however much at times I agree with them.

[Chris Chopping]

Maybe creating great new comedy doesn't require total disdain for the previous generation but it does involve acknowledging flaws in it and having an idea of how you want to do things differently.

For example, Pythons all loved Pete and Dud but saw that the punchlines were often the weakest part of the sketch and saw a way to take things forward.

If comedians are all just watching TV saying, 'wow, I want to make a show just like that one' it's inevitably going to lead to diminishing returns. You need to have values in your comedy beyond copying what's already out there.

[Chris Chopping]

If you really don't like anything other than British comedy, I just wouldn't ever be able to take your opinions seriously again.

I think you'd struggle to find an example where he actually said that. Nobody is saying only British comedy is good. However, Britain has a rich comedy heritage and it would be a shame for that to dwindle and die, regardless of what else is on.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The thing is, I often suspect a lot of us are on the same side, we all think there's something rotten in the state of British comedy, and yet we quibble over semantics. Which would be fine if those same people strongly disagreed, but often it just amounts to 'Ah-hah, you said this!' point-scoring for the sake of it.

Clarifying the difference between saying:

1)There hasn't been a comedy since Brass Eye that has achieved the same standards.

2)There has been no decent British comedy on TV for ten years.

..is not 'quibbling over semantics'.

[4 arses]

Maybe creating great new comedy doesn't require total disdain for the previous generation but it does involve acknowledging flaws in it and having an idea of how you want to do things differently.

For example, Pythons all loved Pete and Dud but saw that the punchlines were often the weakest part of the sketch and saw a way to take things forward.

If comedians are all just watching TV saying, 'wow, I want to make a show just like that one' it's inevitably going to lead to diminishing returns. You need to have values in your comedy beyond copying what's already out there.

But in that way I seriously doubt that Lee and Herring didn't and wouldn't deny Elton's talent and what he has contributed to comedy, in the same way that you could ask them a serious question about Patrick Marber and they'd probably drop their comedy anti-Marber stance for a second.

If you really don't like anything other than British comedy, I just wouldn't ever be able to take your opinions seriously again.

In fairness, ELW10 has been quite glowing about some recent American comedy, particularly Wondershowzen. But that if anything shows that good comedy is still capable of being produced within the US television system, something that the UK television companies seem increasingly to struggle with,

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

So would you be happy with a show that borrowed liberally from shows like the 2 mentioned above and succeeded in being funny, despite a feeling of it having been done in a similar format before? Or does a new show have to bring something fresh?

Well, mediocre comedians always insist that 'there's no such thing as originality in comedy - everything's been done before', after which they usually cite the example of Python being influnced by Spike Milligan. It's not really true, though. Yes, all comedy borrows from the past and fuses together existing genres...but really good comedy (a) blurs these influences, and more importantly (b) adds something new.

You could argue that The Day Today was just a re-woking of Eric Idle's newsreader monologe at the end of the final Python show, which is unbelievably Morris/Iannucci-esque. But TDT took the DNA of that sketch and genuinely expanded it, exploring things that even the Pythons hadn't considered. It wasn't just ersatz Python, or a tiny fragment of Python stretched to six episodes. The whole package seemed totally original, and only by studying it closely do you notice the components.

This is in contrast to all new British comedy today, which wears its influences on its sleeve far too much. You can spot immediately what comedians are up to. I'd love to be really disorientated by a comedy show - made to feel like I genuinely didn't know where they were going, and that the show is in the hands of people far more talented and intelligent than me (a feeling I often get from Wonder Showzen). I'd like to be in awe of a comedy show, not simply think 'Oh right, I see what they're trying to do'.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Surely it's about the quality of the comedy / wine that matters, and how much you enjoy it, not where it comes from.

Yes, I'd like some quality British comedy too, but if it's not being made, it doesn't bother me as long as some great comedy (Arrested Development, Curb) still is.

But again, I disagree that comedy is some kind of uniform, globally interchangeable product and all that matters is you get your daily fix. It doesn't acknowledge that Britain is good at doing things that America isn't (how many brilliant American sketch shows can you name?), and vice versa.

If there's no British comedy, that means British TV shows aren't being parodied, British politicians aren't being satirised, uniquely British attitudes aren't being ridiculed...whole areas of comedy gold end up being unmined.