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You May Debunk Myths About the Opposite Sex From Here

Started by butnut, January 16, 2007, 12:22:05 PM

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butnut

Ah, one of those threads.

For some reason, at 6am this morning, a strange sort of reasoning got me thinking the following:

a) When we were at school, some of the boys used to say: 'wait until we get into the sixth form, we'll have girls all over us!'

b) Once in the sixth-form, people then started saying: 'ooh, I can't wait to get to university. There'll be loads of desperate girls!"

c) And now, in my increasingly late-20s, I've heard several people talk about: 'how great it is in your 30s. ALL women want is babies and they're really desperate' (with added precautions about not getting tied down etc)

Isn't it nice to think that just round the corner is some golden age, where women fall at your feet as you stroll through the park? Of course it is, and of course it's bollocks. For one thing, the poor girls would be all muddy at this time of year. But it is (what I said up there, not falling in mud) probably quite an effective way of avoiding dealing with the 'I'm not getting any right now' situation, and giving the ego an all important boost.

So what other 'myths' (for want of a better word) can you think of about the opposite sex? Is there any truth in them do you think?  Or does it, as in this case I think, say more about your own gender?

Bonus points to:

The first bitter person to say "It's a myth that men/women are loving and caring"
The first person to say these are not myths and they all happened to him and he's currently in a foursome with a teenage girl, a student, and a chartered accountant from Epping.

The Duck Man

Women don't fancy anyone.

I think there's a presumption from a lot of men that women don't have "crushes" (oh, for a better word) and simply wander around aloofly waiting for us to impress them. They are the higher form, and we are but humble servants.

Lady Beaner

Quote from: "The Duck Man"They are the higher form, and we are but humble servants.

I knew you lot would start coming around to the idea eventually...

Egyptian Feast

There is the myth that all women love bastards. It's not true in most cases, although a disturbing amount of my female friends claim that they are turned on by 'bastards' and turned off by men who are 'too nice'. Then bitch about how their boyfriends are treating them like shit.

Quote from: "The Duck Man"I think there's a presumption from a lot of men that women don't have "crushes"

Is there really?  Please speak on behalf of all males everywhere and tell me why that is.  I wonder whether it has anything to do with the old chestnut about what it is that excites men and women, and what they find attractive.  For instance, men are generally meant to be very visual, and therefore the sight of a nubile young beauty taking a summer stroll in a floaty and ever so see-through skirt is (I am told) a sure winner.  I imagine men probably find themselves randomly and physically attracted to strangers more than women do.  

From my perspective of being a woman, while I can enjoy someone's physical appearance and think that they look rather fine, that is never enough for me to have a crush on someone.  No, no. That requires at least some level of conversation, and at least a small indication of their personality.  And I often find that it is personality and getting to know someone that can elevate them from the level of objective admiration of their attributes to irrational crush.  I do find it damn near impossible to just be physically attracted to someone, certainly enough to want to do anything about it.  I guess it's just another manifestation of how men want the visual and the tangible, and women want a bit more of the ephemeral - we want the whole scene setting, not just the money shot.  Bloody high maintenance, we are.  I am oftne glad I am not a man.

Mr. Analytical

"Women don't like nice guys" is actually loser code for:

"Women won't date me because I have horrendous social skills, look like a turd in a wig and have a number of mental health issues.  However, rather than face up to this and the need to change I'll seek refuge in a misogynistic fantasy whereby it's not about me being as attractive as tertiary syphillis, it's about women having bad taste".

terminallyrelaxed

Gosh, you really are a contrary streak of piss aren't you?

DG, I think men are much like women when to crushes. Yes, we like to look, but the thoughts that come with those looks seldom stretch further than "yes, I would". Actively mooning over someone takes as you say at least minimal social interaction and admiration of qualities other than pure physicality. Women don't like bastards, they just don't ever respect or fancy a man who fawns over them from the get-go, its desperate and clingy.

Mr. Analytical

Quote from: "terminallyrelaxed"Gosh, you really are a contrary streak of piss aren't you?

 Moi?  why... yes.

 It's true though, blokes who say "women don't like nice guys" should set off all kinds of alarms.  Textbook misogynists.

 I'm not sure what we mean by crush though?  is it a lusty thing or is it just a "giggle uncontrollably and blush when he walks in the room"?  it sounds quite chaste, is it something other than fancying someone?

SOTS

Quote from: "Egyptian Feast"There is the myth that all women love bastards. It's not true in most cases, although a disturbing amount of my female friends claim that they are turned on by 'bastards' and turned off by men who are 'too nice'. Then bitch about how their boyfriends are treating them like shit.

That's so true.

I'll be trying to avoid the bastards like the plague. Perhaps if I find one by accident I could hand them onto some poor bitch who is actually turned on by that sort of attitude.

I like nice guys, not overly nice. Just, one that isn't a complete and utter twat.

Quote from: "domesticgoddess"From my perspective of being a woman, while I can enjoy someone's physical appearance and think that they look rather fine, that is never enough for me to have a crush on someone.  No, no. That requires at least some level of conversation, and at least a small indication of their personality.  And I often find that it is personality and getting to know someone that can elevate them from the level of objective admiration of their attributes to irrational crush.  I do find it damn near impossible to just be physically attracted to someone, certainly enough to want to do anything about it..

Absolutely. Who cares if they look nice if they're a complete arsehole as well?

sproggy

I would be interested to learn how many of these women who grew into 'bastard lovers' had fathers who were physically abusive to them as a child.  I suspect the number would be quite high.

SweetRosalyn

When people talk about 'nice guys' and 'bastards' half the time what they're actually referring to is confidence.  Confidence is attractive.  It is also more often found in arseholes than nice guys.  A guy who is confident and charming and capable of manipulating people is often going to be more attractive, at least to begin with, than a guy who is nice, but lacking in confidence, and thus social skills.  And 'nice' guys are indeed often clingy, desperate and passive aggressive.

Obvious any sane person tries to find someone from the middle section, with a decent amount of confidence and social skills, but morals to go with them.  

There are a lot of silly tarts who date arseholes, who know they're arseholes, but do it anyway.  

There are also a lot of silly twats who date women who are utterly psychotic, manipulative, and generally nasty pieces of work, and they know it too.  Same deal - confidence.  

--

As regards gender differences in attraction... I don't think it's as simple as that.  I fit DG's description of male attraction - if I see a guy that's cute, I will be attracted to them - I see a guy walk down the street in whatever the male equivalent of the floaty see-through skirt, I will notice them and want to do filthy things to them.  However, the question of what a crush is being defined as is important.  I would need to get to know them better, find out their personality and so on before feeling like I wanted an actual relationship of any sort with them.  As regards sex... I will often want sex with them before I find out about their personality, but once discovered, said personality can render a person more or less attractive.  I can eye someone up and want to rip their clothes off and ravish them right there on the street, and then have a five minute conversation with them and decide that I don't even want them within a metre of me, let alone inside me.  Does this fit your description of male or female sexuality?

I don't think men decide they want a relationship with someone based on looks alone.  As Terminallyrelaxed put it - you don't get further than a 'Yes, I would' just from looking.  I think what weight you put on personality versus look when discussing people you fancy is possibly more of a cultural/social thing than an inherent gender difference.  

There does sometimes seem to be the assumption The Duck Man brought up - that women don't have crushes but wait to be won over - and it's bollocks.  At least for me and most of my friends, anyway.  I can't think of anyone who waits around for men to prove their worth, and thus allow them to decide which one gets the prize of their very worthy self.  But I do know men who seem to think that, even though a woman has expressed no interest in them, if they just do enough nice things for them, they'll eventually change their mind, and who, if a woman decides she likes another man, immediately get angry and want to know why that other man is better, as if attraction is a measurable thing based on people's attributes.  It's not a contest.

Captain Crunch

I once saw a man buying shoes.  I know, I know, I could barely get over it myself.

yawn

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteI see a guy walk down the street in whatever the male equivalent of the floaty see-through skirt, I will notice them and want to do filthy things to them

What's the male equivalent, and if I wear it, do I need to be holding a sign that says "It's a cold day, alright?"

Entropy Balsmalch

"Laugh em into bed....."

Doesn't work.

I think Frank Skinner put it quite well when he said from his experience it's been "I've had a great laugh, thanks. Now I'm off to sleep with this physically attractive person."

Now, while that's obviously exagerated for comic effect and misogynified (new word!) threw the Skinner lense but it's true that the ability to make people laugh is not in itself enough to woo a woman - if all you do is play the fool then you will forever be treated like one in my experience.

Egyptian Feast

A classic one often spouted by men is that women have dreadful taste in music and films. One friend who is particularly adamant about this has worse music taste than any woman I know, which completely invalidates his argument in my eyes. Would, say...The Beatles, T-Rex or David Bowie have been quite as successful without their female fanbase? Yet I keep hearing this silly argument trotted out by normally sane friends of mine. I have absolutely impeccable taste in music and I'm always spotting girls I fancy at gigs, so obviously they're talking shite.

SOTS

Quote from: "Entropy Balsmalch"
I think Frank Skinner put it quite well when he said from his experience it's been "I've had a great laugh, thanks. Now I'm off to sleep with this physically attractive person."

Now, while that's obviously exagerated for comic effect and misogynified (new word!) threw the Skinner lense but it's true that the ability to make people laugh is not in itself enough to woo a woman - if all you do is play the fool then you will forever be treated like one in my experience.

Works the other way round as well.

There was a whole segment on Richard and Judy a while back about a poll showing that men don't like women to be funny, as they prefer to be the funny ones in the relationship.

Morrisfan82

Bollocks. A woman that makes you laugh is like Christmas on legs.

Go With The Flow

Quote from: "Muteki"Bollocks. A woman that makes you laugh is like Christmas on legs.

What, makes you feel sickly and only comes once a year?

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: "cool_penguin_0"
Quote from: "Muteki"Bollocks. A woman that makes you laugh is like Christmas on legs.

What, makes you feel sickly and only comes once a year?
And takes all your money.

Still Not George

My Gods, the entire world just did a drum sting at that.

SetToStun

Quote from: "SOTS"There was a whole segment on Richard and Judy a while back about a poll showing that men don't like women to be funny, as they prefer to be the funny ones in the relationship.

At times it helps to consider the source. Just saying, like.

A woman who can make you laugh is like, well I wuite liked "Christmas on legs" until that one was ripped to shreds, so I'll have to settle for "something very desirable indeed which you have just found out is even more desirable due to a previously unknown bonus feature".

Goldentony

Quote from: "Claude the Lion Tamer"
Quote from: "cool_penguin_0"
Quote from: "Muteki"Bollocks. A woman that makes you laugh is like Christmas on legs.

What, makes you feel sickly and only comes once a year?
And takes all your money.

Congratulations on the wolrds greatest succesion of posts on a forum.

You win the internet.

Quote from: "SweetRosalyn"However, the question of what a crush is being defined as is important.  

I'm not suggesting this is thedefinition, but for me a crush is more than just a fleeting moment of physical attraction on the street.  It has to be enough to make me think and fantasise about that person when I'm not with them.

Milo

This has been an interesting thread so far. Keep it up!

SweetRosalyn

Hm.  Well I've thought and fantasised about people whose personality I had no experience of.  I wouldn't count that as a crush, though.  I need to know them, at least a bit, before I can consider it a crush.  Before that it's just lusting.

biniput

QuoteAnd 'nice' guys are indeed often clingy, desperate and passive aggressive

Quotethey just don't ever respect or fancy a man who fawns over them from the get-go

The problem i instantly identify as a male is if you really love/like someone how would i now resist the need to fawn over or make it clear all the time that they are number 1.  Is there a thing about liking someone but not LOOKING as if you are desparate.  I have heard this before and it sound so fucking stupid.  I mean a man who likes a woman in a very real and honest way and who isn't a bastard is bound to feel as if she can do no wrong and will act accordingly.

SweetRosalyn

But if you like someone and think they're wonderful, you will surely respect their need for some space, time to get to know you, and so on.  You will try to find out what they like and what they don't, rather than mindlessly complimenting them, agreeing with them and following them around, when perhaps they're the kind of woman that prefers someone who will challenge them and be their intellectual equal, someone who is independent and won't require constant attention and babysitting.  Because more often than not the constant fawning over someone is less about giving them attention and more about demanding attention off them, and thinking that constant compliments is the way to obtain it.

biniput

I see.  It wasn't made so plain that it isn't really the fawning rather than a rather a feel that a person can't do anything at all without someone else being there.
that i can understand.

actwithoutwords

I think it is common to both sexes that we all love a challenge. The 'niceness' thing implies something that is too easy, and our more base instincts aren't particularly excited by that. In my experience, a combination of fleeting indications of interest mixed with a level of mysteriousness and independence is utterly irresistable.

It is sometimes depressing though. The members of the opposite sex that you have a 'spark' with aren't always the best people you could go out with. I find that it's often the exact opposite.

Mr. Analytical

Is the niceness thing all about confidence?  or is it about dominance?

Because you can be perfectly confidant but still an indecisive wet flannel of a man and I can't see that as particularly attractive.

So I always took the nice/bastard thing to be about guys who know what they want and who they are.  That way when they desire a woman, the woman really feels desired and those that aren't desired want to be desired.