You May Debunk Myths About the Opposite Sex From Here

[Mister Cairo]

Myths:

The idea that any man who spends his time shagging everyone is a "stud", while any woman who does so is a "slag". It's put about by bitter men who feel threatened by women having a good time, and who secretly want women in the kitchen peeling while they drink lager in the local pub

[23 Daves]

A classic one often spouted by men is that women have dreadful taste in music and films. One friend who is particularly adamant about this has worse music taste than any woman I know, which completely invalidates his argument in my eyes. Would, say...The Beatles, T-Rex or David Bowie have been quite as successful without their female fanbase? Yet I keep hearing this silly argument trotted out by normally sane friends of mine. I have absolutely impeccable taste in music and I'm always spotting girls I fancy at gigs, so obviously they're talking shite.

It sounds like the ramblings of a couple of male Iron Maiden fans I know, who wonder why no women ever turn up to Maiden gigs, and put that down to them having "bad taste".  

It is true that some acts have a more female or male demographic than others though, and whether that's down to good or bad taste on either gender's part is subjective.  There are noticeably fewer female Fall fans at their gigs, for example, and some of the twee-indie stuff has a shockingly huge female following.  I think most of it has to do with whether or not they feel they can easily "relate" to the lyrics or ideas or front-person (man).

As for the "women loving bastards" one, I think it is perfectly possible to be solely attracted to women who are emotionally damaged in some way and thus only attracted to bastards, as I suspect a male friend of mine is.   But a lot of people seem to be very slow at recognising that flaw in themselves - there are quite a few men out there who seem to see themselves as knights in shining armour wishing to protect delicate and messed up princesses, and have an aversion to women with any confidence or self-assurance of their own.

[Brutus Beefcake]

It has a lot to do with how cute this singer is.

[23 Daves]

There does sometimes seem to be the assumption The Duck Man brought up - that women don't have crushes but wait to be won over - and it's bollocks.  At least for me and most of my friends, anyway.  I can't think of anyone who waits around for men to prove their worth, and thus allow them to decide which one gets the prize of their very worthy self.  But I do know men who seem to think that, even though a woman has expressed no interest in them, if they just do enough nice things for them, they'll eventually change their mind, and who, if a woman decides she likes another man, immediately get angry and want to know why that other man is better, as if attraction is a measurable thing based on people's attributes.  It's not a contest.

Is that completely a male thing, though?  I genuinely doubt it.  I've definitely heard "Oh, you just prefer her because she's better looking don't you, can't you see I'd be better for you?" spat out angrily by women to friends of mine (or, in one case, to myself).  

It's just jealousy, and I don't think that's necessarily gender specific. I think most of us have been guilty of indulging in it at one time or another, though I'd hope more stable or mature people do it behind closed doors or in the company of close friends rather than by ranting at the object of their desire, which must surely be the biggest turn-off.

[23 Daves]

It has a lot to do with how cute this singer is.

In the case of Misty's Big Adventure and the girlie demographic there, I would say no.  Although if I were a woman, I'd probably be interested in Grandmaster Gareth, but then I'm weird like that.

[actwithoutwords]

Is the niceness thing all about confidence?  or is it about dominance?

A fair proportion of women I have been interested in over the years have been yer precocious intelligent types, and the behaviour to which a lot of such girls have best responded to (during the courting stage at least) has been teasing, condescension and the exploitation of weakness in pulling the piss. Playful obnoxiousness seems to go down incredibly well with a lot of women, in my experience anyway. It's interesting, because I'm not sure if it was the other way around I would be particularly impressed. Well, up to a certain point.
I don't know how many guys would enjoy consistently being on the losing end of the banter. 50-50 is fine, great in fact. But I'm not sure how much I would like to lose on a regular basis. This is complete speculation, but that might be a difference?

[Brutus Beefcake]

In the case of Misty's Big Adventure and the girlie demographic there, I would say no.  Although if I were a woman, I'd probably be interested in Grandmaster Gareth, but then I'm weird like that.

True, but it still demonstrates a lack of taste.


I've just realised that this thread's title makes no sense.

[butnut]

I've just realised that this thread's title makes no sense.

Perhaps you need to think of the other sense in which 'may' can be used. I assume you are thinking of it as hinting as a possibility, thus making the 'from here' nonsensical. But I was thinking of those old 'You may telephone from here' signs for some reason as I started the thread, which use the other meaning of the word, so it's more of a polite way of granting permission.

I wanted to find pictures of The Beatles, and possibly Python, with such signs, but they seem remarkably hard to find on a vague google image search.

[Mister Cairo]

The idea that women are all terrible drivers seems to have shifted into men being worse drivers with the rampantly sexist Sheila's Wheels. Given that they offer "handbag insurance", I'm amazed any woman would choose to use them, that little patronzing "We all love our handbags, don't we, girls". I'm amazed F4J don't target it.

[Still Not George]

Meh, advertising has been growing steadily more misandristic(sp?) as time goes by anyway. Ever since that "Aroma-ic hurbs and spiyces! I'll call you later - if i'm still aloive!" crapola I've been looking out for it, and it's everywhere.

[Labian Quest]

A classic one often spouted by men is that women have dreadful taste in music and films.

This is clearly phallocratic rubbish, mind you Duran Duran said that they used to make a guesstimate of the number of blokes in the audience when they were touring and if the number appeared to be increasing they would take it as a sign that their music was improving. Make of that what you will.

Regarding the business of women with a sense of humour , Oscar Wilde famously said that 'Nothing will ruin a marriage faster than a woman with a sense of humour...or a man without one'

[Fielding]

Of course, both sexes have criteria by which they find someone attractive - they tend to be around about the same for each sex e.g women finding confidence attractive, men finding a pair of firm, perky breasts attractive.

When you don't fit the opposite sexes criteria it can be a difficult pill to swallow and sometimes will taste even more bitter because those people who do fit the criteria (they have the confidence, or they have the nice firm, perky breasts) aren't always "nice" people. Other attributes that you do have, and feel good about, aren't necessarily attractive ones - it's frustrating for sure. It can lead to the kind of 'women only like jerks' and 'men only care about looks' venting that goes on.

It's understandable in a way, but in the end, you just have to focus on yourself - try to live a happy life and keep the faith. It seems the norm, rather than the exception, to overemphasise the importance of a particular thing. Nobody is going to fall in love because of one single feature or facet that a person has.

[insert lyrics to Morrissey's 'I know it's gonna happen someday' here]

[Soft focus, black and white film, a candle lit room, a tear running down the cheek, gently stroking at a photograph of a an unrequited lover, lights fading, the end.]

[Brutus Beefcake]

make a guesstimate

I hope for your sake that that's a direct quote.

[Labian Quest]

No, that's just an approximation to something I remember hearing them say, I only said guesstimate because it's such a great and wacky word.

[Brutus Beefcake]

ARGH!  I hate people that say guesstimate!  You're taking two words that mean the same thing and combining them to make a word that means NOTHING.

[Marv Orange]

ARGH!  I hate people that say guesstimate!  You're taking two words that mean the same thing and combining them to make a word that means NOTHING.

Chillax Brude.

[Brutus Beefcake]

I knew someone would say that, should've known it would be you.

[depressed beyond tablets]

Dykes are a mystery

[Carlos Tevez]

So basically, no-one knows about the opposite sex.

[Sovereign]

That its the quiet ones that are the best when you get 'em into bed. Oooh look she's a bit timid, bet she's a dark horse etc etc but TRUST ME if she's a shambolic stuttering wreck with no social skills confidence and a cleft pallet then she's NOT gonna be any good, she'll be so goddamn scared and trepidacious that you'll have to forgo any of the joy that rampant animalistic rutting can produce and spend the whole goddamn time being re-assuring and compassionate and basically re-doing her entire sexual education for her instead of foreplay. Honestly it wer like fucking a priceless ming vase.

[Utter Shit]

"Women don't like nice guys" is actually loser code for:

"Women won't date me because I have horrendous social skills, look like a turd in a wig and have a number of mental health issues.  However, rather than face up to this and the need to change I'll seek refuge in a misogynistic fantasy whereby it's not about me being as attractive as tertiary syphillis, it's about women having bad taste".

YES. SPOT ON. There's nothing worse than some dickhead who whines about nice guys finishing last when the truth is that he'd be the most mentally and emotionally tortuous cunt of a boyfriend imaginable. I absolutely DESPISE these people.

[23 Daves]

I have heard women say exactly the same thing, though - "If you were nastier, you'd have more chance with women" being some spectacularly bad advice a friend of mine was given once by his ex.  My friend, who is a witty, clever chap who never does terribly with the ladies anyway (just averagely) wisely ignored the bint in question.

There are people out there of both genders who subconsciously go out looking for abusive relationships, and there are clearly some women who are like this and think the same is true of everyone - "everyone loves a bad boy" and all that.  They're generally not the kind of people you want to end up stuck with, though, because Lord knows how many other issues are bubbling under.  They're the kind of people who start screaming arguments for fun.

Incidentally, going back to a topic that was raised earlier in the thread about women and their crushes on men, I can think of one example of a woman who has a crush on me to the extent that she gets really nervy and flustered when I'm around, even though we've only really spoken about a hundred words to each other in our lives.  Should I be completely unnerved by this and start looking out of the window at regular intervals to check I'm not being followed, or is this halfway normal?

To be fair to her, she did own up to it once she knew I'd found out through a mutual friend what was going on and why she was being so weird around me.  But I don't know if that makes things better or worse.

[Captain Crunch]

But you're spoken for aren't you?  Just take it as flattery I suppose.  Unless you find dodgy things like your initials carved into her arm.

[23 Daves]

But you're spoken for aren't you?  

Yeah, absolutely, but it seems to make no difference to her behaviour!  It is very flattering, but it's caused some utterly absurd social situations.  Fortunately Mrs Daves just finds the whole situation hysterically funny.

[Still Not George]

But you're spoken for aren't you?  

That just makes it worse, believe me.

[Sherringford Hovis]

"Girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money."

I got dumped yesterday. But it's alright, I've still got two more backup girls to console me. I don't understand women at all - I'm an arsehole with no money, a bad attitude and poor hygiene, yet I'm seemingly irresistible.

[Captain Crunch]

But you're spoken for aren't you?  

That just makes it worse, believe me.

Would that count as a gender myth then, women who actively pursue men who are married or clearly ‘taken’?  Maybe from their point of view it is all harmless fun or perhaps they believe the man will eventually succumb to her charms because he just can’t help it?  It’s a bit distasteful either way.

Anyway 23Daves, it’s not as if you can do anything either way is it?  It just boils down to a lack of tact on her part - a quality that appears to have fallen out of fashion lately.

[23 Daves]

Anyway 23Daves, it’s not as if you can do anything either way is it?

Nah, not really.  And I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt, quite honestly - I don't think she's been intentionally very tactless, just perhaps a bit too drunk and more frank than she should have been given that we have mutual friends and are likely to keep bumping into each other.  We've all revealed things we possibly shouldn't have whilst inebriated, and she doesn't seem like the type to have any cynical game-plan.  Though I've said that before...

As for women going after married men, I think it's a myth. What it boils down to is that there are some married men who, once attached, stop giving the desperate puppy act to women they find attractive, then wonder why they subsequently get more attention.  I wouldn't say that more women had made their interest known since I got hitched - quite the reverse, in fact.

[Jon]

It's not a contest.

Well, yes it is really. In fact it's arguably the contest at the root of every other contest and endeavour that human beings engage in. Genes gotta propagate, and all that.

The 'women love bastards' thing. I think a major part is that people, men and women, tend to delude themselves very easily over the character of people they fancy. I don't doubt you've all had relationships and crushes with people where you look back and think 'what the fuck was I thinking?' Where in hindsight the person's flaws and your mutual incompatibility is glaringly obvious. Yet at the time the emotional truth far outweighs the practical reality, and you find it all to easy to ignore or excuse the problems and behaviour that will later seem obvious. Men are just as guilty in this area as women, we're willing to forgive a lot for a pretty face.

In truth, the nature of attraction probably has a lot less to do with character than anybody likes to admit, and more to do with basic biological concerns, like smell for example. After all, most of us won't ever fancy about 50% of the population, no matter how charming, well dressed, rich, confident, pretty, witty, funny or smart they are.

[Almost Yearly]

I'm an arsehole with no money, a bad attitude and poor hygiene, yet I'm seemingly irresistible.

Such scope for investment / development / customisation.


I dunno, this friend of mine, well I think if I said to her "Let's run off. Let's make a right mess of our current respective lives and hook up together," she'd say yes in a flash. She's smart and fun and looks great but I don't fancy her, for some probably olfactory reason. The primary pull for her, I think, is my tendency to try to keep a long term relationship together, a factor which would become instantly null and void if I made the proposal. Surely by 'women love bastards', they mean 'infidels'? Chicks huh. She does go way out of her way to get me nice weed, so that's nice. Take me down to the paradox city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty.


Just bunking away a bit there, for balance like.