"90% of people are paste"

[Backstage With Slowdive]

today, we don't have an equivalent of the Specials.

True. Instead we have at least 3 mediocre bands who are completely deluded into thinking they are the new Specials: Hard Fi, The Dead 60s, and I can't even remember the other lot. Is it The Ordinary Boys?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Lily Allen's samples are supposed to press certain buttons with jaded thirtysomething Specials fans aren't they? Just as the surf guitar riff in Girls Aloud's Sound of the Underground is there so that surf guitar fans can go 'Cor, a surf guitar riff - I didn't expect that from Girls Aloud!'. It's a bit insulting really.

[Little Hoover]

^
Actually that's something I find hard to imagine, are people really going to get into mainstream pop acts because they do watered down versions of music they like, I find it hard to imgaine any punk fans would get into Avril Lavigne and Pink. Though it might turn 1 or 2 Lavigne and Pink fans onto the real stuff, but even that seems quite hard to belive.

[igotmadskills]

They're just doing exactly the same thing as a rock bore would do, except they're dismissing guitar-pop rather than dance-pop.

This may have been the case a few years ago, but since Popjustice launched itself as a brand and took on more writers, there's been a marked shift in the character of the site. They've supported loads of mainstream guitar bands (Muse, Keane, The Killers, Snow Patrol) and even stuck up for James Blunt once or twice.

[Brutus Beefcake]

So. Bland =

a) Stuff we don't like, and
b) Stuff that enjoys widespread popularity throughout the rest of society.

I could phrase (b) better, but I think it's safe to say (a) is spot on, yes? There's also a chicken-and-egg element: is it stuff you don't like, because liots of other people do, or vice-versa? I'm willing to bet that most of the time it's the former. This is just the same snobbery this thread was created to critique and discuss - "90% of people are paste, and have bland taste."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bland

[Ciarán2]

What is it with you and online dictionaries, Brutus Beefcake?

Lily Allen's samples are supposed to press certain buttons with jaded thirtysomething Specials fans aren't they? Just as the surf guitar riff in Girls Aloud's Sound of the Underground is there so that surf guitar fans can go 'Cor, a surf guitar riff - I didn't expect that from Girls Aloud!'. It's a bit insulting really.

That's about the least charitable view you could take on it. I don't get that feeling from it at all. Actually, this afternoon I played Girls Aloud's singles as I studied - prompted by this thread. There's a lot of allusions to rock chucked into the mix; the surf guitar sample on "Sound of the Underground" as you say, but also "No Good Advice" is reminiscent of The Knack's "My Sharona", "Wake Me Up" has a Mean Rockin' Guitar Riff From Hell, "Love Machine" is old fashioned rock and roll chuggery, "Biology" has a fair dose of rock and roll about it too. Those singles single out rock music tropes or cliches and chuck them into an otherwise electro-pop sound. They're like exaggerated rock pastiches at times. Somehow it suggests that the producers are cocking a snook to rock in some way, or perhaps it just another example of post-modern cultural cross referencing. "The Show" is brill, lots of synths, lots of nice counter melodies, and funny lyrics. "I shoulda known, I shoulda cared/ I should have hung around the kitchen in my underwear acting like a lady/ It woulda saved me..." So to my ears/ sensibilities Girls Aloud represent a kind of contemporary pop which both references and flies in the face of rock, which is chocka with the kind of electro fizzes and beats which always tickled my fancy, and they also have that catty, bitchy camp humour about them. Some lovely chord ideas in there too. The tunes often have a kind of melancholy about them. Just...completely great.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

It's a dual demgraphic, though - the casual pop fans will like the songs regardless, but then they also draw in the older fans by flattering them with references. References which the pop-literate, those thirtysomthings attempting to have a second childhood, are supposed to 'get'. That's why I enliken Lily Allen to The Rutles - it's enjoyabe up to a point, but it's ultimately just a pastiche. But, unlike The Rutles, I don't think the songwriting is really good enough.

I don't see why we should be charitable about bands like Girls Aloud. They're there solely to make money, so they'll pilfer whatever influences will push their audience's buttons. Which isn't a problem if you love the songs, but I think there's something fundamentally characterless about them as an act. I can only name one member, for a start...and I can't really remember what she looks like.

One of the reasons why I find pornography depressing is the 'You like it when I do this don't you?' factor - there's something bleakly insulting about it. I get the same feeling from the surf guitar on Sound of the Underground - it's trying so hard to push certain buttons that it does nothing for me at all.

[Backstage With Slowdive]

^
Actually that's something I find hard to imagine, are people really going to get into mainstream pop acts because they do watered down versions of music they like, I find it hard to imgaine any punk fans would get into Avril Lavigne and Pink. Though it might turn 1 or 2 Lavigne and Pink fans onto the real stuff, but even that seems quite hard to belive.

Avril Lavigne was (she's over now, isn't she?) aimed at pre-teens. Pink is aimed at Sheryl Crow fans who want something a bit "edgier".

[Brutus Beefcake]

What is it with you and online dictionaries, Brutus Beefcake?

I use them to find the definitions of words.

[Little Hoover]

^
Actually that's something I find hard to imagine, are people really going to get into mainstream pop acts because they do watered down versions of music they like, I find it hard to imgaine any punk fans would get into Avril Lavigne and Pink. Though it might turn 1 or 2 Lavigne and Pink fans onto the real stuff, but even that seems quite hard to belive.

Avril Lavigne was (she's over now, isn't she?) aimed at pre-teens. Pink is aimed at Sheryl Crow fans who want something a bit "edgier".

Oh but it still seemed like they were aiming for a sort of pop punk market,  
fans of the real punk that came from 70's wouldn't like them, but maybe kids who's main idea of punk was Blink 182 might have.

Anyway I've not been paying attention to music for years now, we never really listened to the radio in my household, and I don't think the music I like usually gets played anywhere anyway.

[Johnny Yesno]

One of the reasons why I find pornography depressing is the 'You like it when I do this don't you?' factor - there's something bleakly insulting about it. I get the same feeling from the surf guitar on Sound of the Underground - it's trying so hard to push certain buttons that it does nothing for me at all.

Aaagh! Stop it! If I see so much a nipple presented suggestively I'm going to have that bloody song going round my head.

[Ciarán2]

What is it with you and online dictionaries, Brutus Beefcake?

I use them to find the definitions of words.

You don't manage to use those words to construct an argument, which is a bit off-putting though.

[Brutus Beefcake]

True.  I was going to post another misathropic rant but I'm in a better mood today.

[Johnny Yesno]

Fuck, where's that from?

Edit - is it Harry Hill?

Yes, well spotted, but I don't know where SNG's quote is from.

[Still Not George]

Yes, well spotted, but I don't know where SNG's quote is from.

It's original, but roughly based on this marvel:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009531&mod=RSS_Opinion_Journal&ojrss=frontpage

[Ciarán2]

It's a dual demgraphic, though - the casual pop fans will like the songs regardless, but then they also draw in the older fans by flattering them with references. References which the pop-literate, those thirtysomthings attempting to have a second childhood, are supposed to 'get'. That's why I enliken Lily Allen to The Rutles - it's enjoyabe up to a point, but it's ultimately just a pastiche. But, unlike The Rutles, I don't think the songwriting is really good enough.

What's Lily Allen a pastiche of? She samples The Specials but doesn't really sound like them at all. The Specials expressed a real feeling of anxiety about working class Coventry, which was a good analysis of working class Britain as a whole in 1979. They operated in the context of high unemployment, curfews and the beginning of Thatcher's reign. They were angry and surly and their music was threatening. Lily Allen looks at the downside of London life and kind of decides that it's alright really. "Sun is in the sky oh why oh why would I wanna be anywhere else?" I don't think she's being ironic there, but I could be wrong. Lyrically, she draws on her observations of the world she inhabits ("LDN" is an obvious example, "Alfie" is another...) I don't really get the pastiche thing. Darrell is a pastiche/ parody pop fan isn't he? What does he make of Lily Allen? But going back to the content of Girls aloud records, first off as you say casual pop fans seem to like them. Job done, there I'd say. Do you think pop fans - and by that I mean the youngsters - are discerning? Because I think they are. I think you can get away with selling any old shit to kids up to a point, but thereafter they'll move on. I'm not sure where the longevity and popularity of Westlife fits in there admittedly.... I think One True Voice fell by the wayside because they just weren't good enough. Girls Aloud flourished because they were more than good enough. You seem to be annoyed that the "people" behind Girls Aloud trick thirtysomethings into liking them by referencing other pop records in a clever, witty way. Is that such a bad thing? Do you think it's a sinister, subliminal thing? Personally, I think Xenomania have adopted Girls Aloud as their main project, they give them their best songs, their most interesting productions, they inject their records with a humour you don't find in their other work (for Sugababes, Frank etc).

I don't see why we should be charitable about bands like Girls Aloud. They're there solely to make money, so they'll pilfer whatever influences will push their audience's buttons...

Well there's no reason to be charitable towards any group, by that logic  - it's all capitalism...

Which isn't a problem if you love the songs, but I think there's something fundamentally characterless about them as an act. I can only name one member, for a start...and I can't really remember what she looks like.

Whereas I can name all five. I can't name any members of Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, though. So it kind of breaks down there doesn't it? If you were a fan of Girls Aloud, you would know who the members of the band were. If you were a reader of The Sun or The Mirror or Heat you'd be able to name them because you'd have come across them (no pun intended) in the gossip columns. I don't think they're as big a cultural splash as Duran Duran or Bros, and I'm sure they've had shitloads of PR training, so I kind of take your point. In the space of a paragraph, I've done a big u-turn....

One of the reasons why I find pornography depressing is the 'You like it when I do this don't you?' factor - there's something bleakly insulting about it. I get the same feeling from the surf guitar on Sound of the Underground - it's trying so hard to push certain buttons that it does nothing for me at all.

Fair enough. But you suggest that there is no pop music out there at all which you get a thrill from, is that right? I'm not going to insist you go and listen to Girls Aloud again but I do find their singles thrilling, and most of their last album! But moving away from them - have you heard of Annie? She had an album out two years ago called "Anniemal". Two of the singles from it are in the 1000 Singles Thread. I was listening to it today, and I thought "wow, this is the great undiscovered pop gem of our times". I say "undiscovered" because it wasn't a hit. The singles from it didn't set the charts alight either. But it's a great album in the way "The Lexicon of Love" is a great album. Maybe it wasn't a hit because it had bucketloads of imagination. But I've a feeling that someone like Pete Robinson would contend that it didn't do well because the music industry en masses has shifted away from music which is obviously Pop. There again, you might come back and say you think "Anniemal" is bland and characterless. At which point I'd have to flounce off, quite frankly. ;-)