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"90% of people are paste"

Started by Neil, January 18, 2007, 04:27:02 PM

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Little Hoover

I think your being far too elitist if your saying people are idiots because they don't listen to radio 3 or read the guardian. (Although I know that's not really what people are saying)
I think the benchmark should really just be an abillity to have consideration for others, be nice to one another, and just to be calm, rational, humble, objective and open minded in your views, these are the very basics you can ask for in a person, but there does seem to be quite a shockingly high number of people that don't even posses these qualities. obviously noone's consistent in these qualities but at the very at least people should understand that it's way to act towards one another, but some people don't even seem to grasp this concept and that's what makes me sad and worry for mankind.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Neil"
I don't think it occurs to most people to shake off these kind of class/societal expectations, because they lead perfectly happy and fulfilling lives at it is.  You have to also consider the mockery and indignation you can face when you try and leave your pre-determined path and hop onto another, or make your own.  These are all factors.

I do wonder what goes through the mind of someone who openly listens to Generic FM rather than something better. Do they consciously think 'I wish I could listen to something more adventurous, but I know my place'?

I can understand why the average hoody, for example, doesn't say to his fellow hoodies 'I've stopped listening to hip hop - I much prefer Thinking Allowed with Laurie Taylor'. His hoody would be rammed halfway up his arse if he did. But I wonder what stops said hoody from listening to Radio 4 on headphones when he's on his own.

Mr. Analytical

Quote from: "Little Hoover"
I think the benchmark should really just be an abillity to have consideration for others, be nice to one another, and just to be calm, rational, humble, objective and open minded in your views, these are the very basics you can ask for in a person,

 Little Hoover there folks... poster boy for Prozac and Meg Ryan movies.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Little Hoover"I think your being far too elitist if your saying people are idiots because they don't listen to radio 3

It still leaves the question 'Why does Radio 3 have such a tiny audience?'.

'Because most people don't like exercising their brains and exploring the unfamiliar' may sound elitist, but it's hard to argue that it's untrue.

Oscar

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"

It still leaves the question 'Why does Radio 3 have such a tiny audience?'.

'Because most people don't like exercising their brains and exploring the unfamiliar' may sound elitist, but it's hard to argue that it's untrue.
Perhaps these most people are exercising their brains and exploring the unfamiliar in other areas. Perhaps in ways that you are not exercising your brain.

Mr. Analytical

Yes, I'd take serious issue with the idea that sitting listening to jazz and world music does much for your brain.  In fact, I imagine it kills more brain cells than getting someone to drink battery acid and then ejaculate up your nose.

butnut


Mr. Analytical

Quote from: "butnut"Who let that troll in here?

 Fuck off.

 The idea that listening to world music or jazz is somehow intellectually challenging whereas listening to popular music isn't is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard.

 the answer to Lalla's questions are the same as the ones I gave earlier: because people aren't interested in spending their mental energy on "getting into " jazz and they're not interested in devoting mental energy and bandwidth to reading attempting to read the Guardian without screaming when all they want froma paper is the football and some tits.

butnut

Quote from: "Mr. Analytical"
Quote from: "butnut"Who let that troll in here?

 Fuck off.

 The idea that listening to  music or jazz is somehow intellectually challenging whereas listening to popular music isn't is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard.

I don't remember saying that but perhaps it wasn't aimed at me. I'm intrigued that you don't even class Jazz as music now.

EDIT - ah I see you edited. Okay.

I just found your mini-rant aimed at what is a small part of Radio 3's output to be very odd indeed. But doesn't it depend on how you listen? You can let virtually anything just drift over you, but if you really use your ears, then I would say there's as probably as much to discover of interest in Jazz and World music, as there is in the western classical canon.

4 arses

Quote from: "Mr. Analytical"
Quote from: "butnut"Who let that troll in here?
they're not interested in devoting mental energy and bandwidth to reading attempting to read the Guardian without screaming when all they want froma paper is the football and some tits.

I always wondered if The Socialist Worker or some such paper had a decent football section and a few breasts in (preferably attached to something) would we have gone communist by now?

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Mr. Analytical"
The idea that listening to world music or jazz is somehow intellectually challenging whereas listening to popular music isn't is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard.

I never said that. You could have an intelligent pop station, but it would still get smaller audiences than Generic FM playing non-stop Westlife and Killers. Bland things are popular.

Mr. Analytical

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"
I never said that. You could have an intelligent pop station, but it would still get smaller audiences than Generic FM playing non-stop Westlife and Killers. Bland things are popular.

 EASY things are popular.  When you turn on a generic FM station there's going to be an easy to listen to, accessible tune that you can tap your foot away to and if you don't like it there'll be another one along in three minutes.

 Not everyone has a real preference about the music they listen to.  They just turn on the radio and something nice and uncomplicated comes out and maybe they'll like it enough to go and buy it so they can listen to it at home.

 I'm pretty much the same when it comes to clothes.  I have 3 or 4 websites I go to, I pick whatever's least objectionable in my size and off we go.  I don't want to spend time caring about clothes.  Similarly the people who listen to generic FM are people who don't want to think about music too much.

 I'd actually class a lot of classical as falling into this category.  You hear it on desert island discs, it's music that people have grown up with, they've never bothered to acquire an interest or a knowledge of popular or cutting edge music so they go Yes... a little bit of Bach... lovely".

Dusty Gozongas

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"
Quote from: "Mr. Analytical"
The idea that listening to world music or jazz is somehow intellectually challenging whereas listening to popular music isn't is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard.

I never said that. You could have an intelligent pop station, but it would still get smaller audiences than Generic FM playing non-stop Westlife and Killers. Bland things are popular.

You're both right for different reasons and because you're both intelligent.

Damn. Thread stopper! ;o)

Diversity of taste causes the odd few arguments and a lot of opinion forming. I suspect it occasionally leads to the conclusion that the other party is one of the unwashed 90%. Speaking for meself (of course! and nobody else does that) it's easy to pigeonhole a person with different tastes in stuff and just as easy to be very wrong.

Mind you, there's a lot of dumb fuckers about.

Mister Cairo

Quote from: "4 arses"
Quote from: "Mr. Analytical"
Quote from: "butnut"Who let that troll in here?
they're not interested in devoting mental energy and bandwidth to reading attempting to read the Guardian without screaming when all they want froma paper is the football and some tits.

I always wondered if The Socialist Worker or some such paper had a decent football section and a few breasts in (preferably attached to something) would we have gone communist by now?

The Morning Star has a football section and TV guide. No breasts though.

weekender

I know nothing about Radio 3.  Seriously, nothing.  Well, apart from the fact that it's a radio station between 2 and 4, obviously.

I'm not claiming to be unintelligent, far from it, but I genuinely don't know what's on Radio 3.  I might find it interesting, entertaining and educational, I don't know.  Until someone gives me a brief idea of what it entails, or offers particular shows that they know I might like, then I'm probably not likely to listen to it.

There's a couple who live in the flat above me who always seem to play the latest MoR album, and have little sing-alongs with them.  Do I criticise them for this?

Well, in my head, yes I do, because some of the shit they listen to is really appalling, but at the same time I appreciate the fact that they like listening to 'easy' music.  They are twats though, I've seen them walking out of their house and they're those soppy cunts who never have a fight, and look at each other gurningly, you can tell they're glad to be alive and able to listen to Robbie Williams's latest opus.  Gurning fuckers, they make me sick.

Dusty Gozongas

Quote from: "Mister Cairo"

The Morning Star has a football section and TV guide. No breasts though.

No pinkos? Fucking pinkos!

Little Hoover

Quote from: "Mr. Analytical"
Quote from: "Little Hoover"
I think the benchmark should really just be an abillity to have consideration for others, be nice to one another, and just to be calm, rational, humble, objective and open minded in your views, these are the very basics you can ask for in a person,

 Little Hoover there folks... poster boy for Prozac and Meg Ryan movies.

Very good.

Dusty Gozongas


Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Neil"
I was deeply in love with radio as a medium when I was growing up, yet I didn't hear a station like Radio 4 until I was probably around 20.  It didn't occur to me that there'd be anything there for me, really.  And given the amount of jazz and world music on Radio 3, I would have killed to have known about it before the internet.  

What stopped you chancing upon Radio 3 and 4 though? You must have idly turned the dial at one point and encountered them surely?  

I found Resonance the old way - lying awake with headphones, aimlessly turning the dial in the hope of finding something that wasn't Coldplay. I suddenly thought 'What the fuck is this?'

Mr. Analytical

Quote from: "arqarqa"So was mine.

 I thought so.

Neil

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"What stopped you chancing upon Radio 3 and 4 though? You must have idly turned the dial at one point and encountered them surely?  '

Yeah I did do that same sort of aimless dialing of course, that's how I found Radio Luxembourg and portable phone frequencies.  As to your question though, I dunno as it was so long ago... I think it's entirely probable that I chanced upon them at some point, but found the snooty voices very off-putting.  If I'd come across Radio 4 then I might have heard The Archers or some drama, but I would have been looking for tunes.  I did go straight for Talk Radio when it started though, I loved that.  At that point I knew of the existence of R4, but was sure it wasn't for me in the same way that I'm sure Loaded isn't.  

There was no kind of incentive for me to check out these stations in more depth.  Noone in my family knew of them, noone in my social circle mentioned them etc.  I think they were probably MW too, and I would have largely stuck to FM as it was in stereo and I'm a tedious audiophile.

EDIT:  I also really loved Radio 1, and it was smashing back then, I'd much rather have DLT than tossers like Zane Lowe and Colin Murray.  So the Beeb on the wireless did begin and end with that station for me.

Dusty Gozongas

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"

I found Resonance the old way - lying awake with headphones, aimlessly turning the dial in the hope of finding something that wasn't Coldplay. I suddenly thought 'What the fuck is this?'

Good call there Lalla. I accidentally found Resonance* the new way rather than the old and have been blown away more often than I care to mention.

You can't beat the old way though. I keep promising to buy meself a decent shortwave reciever to see if those numbers stations are still there. That's what the dial's for. Screw DAB!

*James Brown hour right now, it seems. Yassss

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

I hated Radio 4 as a child because my parents listened to it constantly. It was only while idly turning the dial one night that I heard Radio Active and thought 'Blimey, I didn't realise they broadcast good stuff on here as well'.

Brutus Beefcake

Quote from: "Neil"Nyeh, you're taking such an astonishingly black and white view on this issue, without ever trying to see things from the other side.

I realise that.


QuoteI mean, I'm talking about impulses that must be built into us on a genetic level.  Not only that, but the kind of pack mentality which I'm referring to is also something that's enfoced during our most formative years.  I would think it doesn't occur to a lot of people to shake off such shackles partly because they just don't really see them.

But now that we know about genes and biological we no longer have to be their slaves.  Most people would rather just go with the flow even in dirty water.


Quote from: "Mr. Analytical"EASY things are popular.

Exactly.  People don't want to be challenged.

Ciarán2

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"You could have an intelligent pop station, but it would still get smaller audiences than Generic FM playing non-stop Westlife and Killers. Bland things are popular.

You kind of answer your own question though. If people are presented with bland things time and time again, of course people end up taking that as the norm. Are you surprised that bland things are popular? Why should people go out of their way to track down challenging things - especially in the context of a lifestyle filled with work, children to raise, dinners to cook, mortgages to pay, commuting to and from work, doing all of the usual daily chores one is presented with. It's perfectly understandable that people look to TV, reading material, music that will relax them or take their mind of taxing issues, no?

Is it really justifiable to complain that - ooh I dunno - Fad Gadget don't get played on mainstream radio? Do you expect people to say "Ooh, there's nothing I like more after a hard day at the office, than to get home and enjoy some avant-garde German cinema from the 1920s..."?

Little Hoover

The thing is the music and comedy and everything else I like is just what's natrually enjoyable to me, it may be more challenging, perhaps to a mainstream audience but it isn't really to me.
I don't, not watch Eastenders because I want to challenge myself and find something better, I don't watch it because I find it incredibly dull and irritating, it'd be harder for me to sit through that than for more intelligent shows.

Although at the moment I do sometimes have to push myself to put down the ps2 pad for a bit and read another chapter of 'Crime & Punishment' instead.

23 Daves

Do people really prefer "bland" things or is that just a lazy assumption that mainstream radio is presently making?  It's certainly not a choice people make at night, is it?   You hardly ever hear people say "We've got to go out to this club I know, the stuff there is really bland and easy to get on with".

Where do we draw the line at what is or isn't considered "pop" anyway?  If "Strawberry Fields Forever" can be deemed pop music (and so far as I'm concerned, it can) and stuff like "Pump up the Volume" can hit number one, then it all gets confusing.  In fact, a lot of the dance music that began bursting into the top five of the charts during the late eighties really did sound quite absurd and jarring at the time, yet worked its way completely into the mainstream.  

Pop music is a continually evolving thing, and at it's best it's not bland at all.  If you'd played The Prodigy's "Firestarter" to an audience in 1966, besides being awe-struck by the technology involved in making the thing, chances are they'd have been quite alienated by it.  So really, I don't see why radio can't make a bit more of an effort - people tend to eventually readily accept the strangeness of things after awhile, and even grow to like it.  It's not just "blandness" people respond to, they do like to be energised or surprised now and then as well.  There are examples of that dotted throughout the history of the Top 40, points where the idea of what "pop" is or isn't suddenly changes.   That's what I find confusing - the assumption that everyone wants aural valium.  In reality, I think it's just that if you playlist the Lighthouse Family, you'll attract a fairly broad cross-section of age groups who'll all be unoffended.  Therefore, the stations that want the broadest demographic will always play that.

On another issue, Fad Gadget were briefly earmarked as Mute's next best hope in the eighties, weren't they?  The singles Frank Tovey released towards the middle of his career weren't that harsh, really.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Ciarán"

You kind of answer your own question though. If people are presented with bland things time and time again, of course people end up taking that as the norm. Are you surprised that bland things are popular? Why should people go out of their way to track down challenging things - especially in the context of a lifestyle filled with work, children to raise, dinners to cook, mortgages to pay, commuting to and from work, doing all of the usual daily chores one is presented with. It's perfectly understandable that people look to TV, reading material, music that will relax them or take their mind of taxing issues, no?

Is it really justifiable to complain that - ooh I dunno - Fad Gadget don't get played on mainstream radio? Do you expect people to say "Ooh, there's nothing I like more after a hard day at the office, than to get home and enjoy some avant-garde German cinema from the 1920s..."?

It's still not a state of mind I understand, though. At the end of a stressful or tedious day, I want to encounter something original and strange, something which makes me feel I'm not braindead after all. The last thing I want is something easy on the eye/ear. Listening to contemporary chart pop in my free time is too much like bringing my work home with me.

Fry

You see, I love my dial radio , when I can't sleep I do the idle turny majig, until I find something nice (the other night night was 'sorrow' by Bowie followed by 'who loves the sun' by Velvet Underground) but I don't stay on a station, I flick when I come to a song I don't like, so I have no favourites.

But yes, alot of people don't want to listen to any different station or try something new, in my school, when staying behind for coursework and such we have the radio on, and we are always listening to cunty things, try and change and you'd get lynched.

23 Daves

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"It's still not a state of mind I understand, though. At the end of a stressful or tedious day, I want to encounter something original and strange

Maybe you're not being worked to (brain) death then.

There are definitely days where the only thing I can handle in the evening is a soap opera on the television, some jaunty pop music, or a quick game of something on the PC.  That's all I can do.  Even posting on here is too much like an effort.  I don't like that state of mind, in fact there are moments where I get genuinely angry about how I'm wasting my energy, but by the same token I have to pay the rent somehow, and my workflow in the office is decidedly uneven, and there are some days where I just have to work my bollocks off.

There's a much bigger debate to be had here about whether the dumbing down of society has anything to do with the overwork of society.  People's lunchbreaks have been reduced to near non-existence, more of us are doing overtime, and as a result engaging the brain outside the practicalities of their daily job is a harder task for many.