Topic: Quick fix solutions to complicated environmental problems

[4 arses]

In the spirit of starting a new thread I thought I'd throw this up as the recent winds of death have reminded me of that whore, Mother Nature.

A month or so ago I picked up a copy of Rolling Stone and was drawn to an article entitled "Can Dr. Evil Save The World?" you can find the article here:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/12343892/can_dr_evil_save_the_world

Basically the logic follows the theory that rather than concentrating on trying to hit the breaks on our energy consumption, we can use science to counteract any effect that heavy industrialisation has caused. It makes sense that change caused by chemicals and gasses released as a byproduct can themselves be counteracted.

So what does everyone think of this then? Is it a Neo Con's wet dream that they wouldn't have to get entangled in any Kyoto style agreements and still look like they're acting for the good of the world? In the end the oil is going to run out anyway and an alternative method of powering society is needed anyway. Would a science solution merely take away the pressing motivation to come up with new ideas?

Well?

[Neil]

Solid fuel shortage:  Easy, just freeze lots of liquidy fuel.

[alex]

Wood's proposal ... burning sulfur, then dumping the particles out of high-flying 747s, spraying them into the sky with long hoses or even shooting them up there with naval artillery

That sounds good, lets fuck the planet even more!

On the same page is the only solution:

the only way you could radically cut emissions without shutting down the economy would be to replace coal and oil with genetically engineered biofuels ... making such a switch would require a massive expansion of agriculture, sweeping changes to the world's energy infrastructure, bold political leadership and trillions of dollars.

[Marv Orange]

Stop hollywood exploding things willy nilly and releasing many toxic gases in to the atmosphere.

And stop drug fields from being burnt, simply put some parasite that will eat the fuck out of it.  (not gonna do LOLZ THEY SHUD LETZ US SMOKE IT SHITE)

[Brutus Beefcake]

The same scientists who's carbon dating techniques you don't trust?


Isn't this just what Tony Blair was saying the other day about how he wouldn't give up his long haul flights because science is going to somehow save the day?  Cunt.

[4 arses]

Well that, of course is the other thing that reminded me of this. Apparantly George Bush is going to use his State of the Union address to do a Uturn on Carbon emmisions in the same way he started going on about oil addiction last year. I wondered whether Blair's statement about science being the answer was said with the knowledge of how GWB is going to approach the carbon emmisions situation.

[Neil]

Endangered species': Just methodically thin out the herds of the non-endangered ones so that everyone's on a level playing field.  They only look endangered by comparison.

[The Widow of Brid]

This doesn't really deserve a new thread, so I'm posdting it on here. Sorry (in a kind of I'm not really sorry or I wouldn't be fucking doing it but, you know, none of you know *exactly* where I live, the copious clues could only lead you to the general area andfrankly I'll take that chance type way. Anyway)


Anyway. OrganicLife. Possibly the cuntiest magazine on the plan et. Certainly the cuntiest one I've seen since I stopped buying 'Fannys Forever!'.

As I may have said on previous threads, Catalogue and I are tedious old hippy twats. We don't run a car, have four different bins to pre-sort recycling, use enviromentally freindly cleaning products, buy most of our food locally blah blash blah knit our own yoghurt etc. As a result  we've been doing the organic thing since it was generally regarded as a scam to get people to pay more money for wormy carrots.
We've loved the fact that it's now mainstream, as it means our diet is now capable of more flexibility and it's cheaper. So when I saw OrganicLife in the shops I thought 'ooh, that might potentially be interesting and useful'.  

Is it fuckery.  The magazine's tagline is 'helping you make a difference'.
Which I'm assuming is a typo for 'helping you to pat yourself on the back for doing such a good job in living your life that much better than everyone else'.

It's a fucking train crash of middle class sanctimoney and lifestyle wank. Everyone featured has at least 4 children, and one of them is ALWAYS called fucking Molly.

The 'what's on' page features 'national storytelling week'. Oh fuck off.

I'm really quite cross.

edited to add

Also, they LIE. 'organic shjop only 41p more expensive' Yes. If your normal shoping i sWaitrose and your orgainc is tesco and ASDA like on your list. Oh, and it's all fucking jam and other shit you wouldn't buy weekly rather than say 'tined tomatos or spuds. You fiucking liars.

[Cack Hen]

knit our own yoghurt

Haha!

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Just kill almost everyone to reduce to population of the planet to something more manageable say 100 million. At least those nuclear weapons will be good for something.

[Smackhead Kangaroo]

Wasn't there something recently about organic food not being conclusively any better for you than non-organic?
i haven't chosen my words very carefully for a reason, because I't's a sketchy memory in the distantly lost part of my skull cavity.

[The Widow of Brid]

It was mentioned as part of that 'celebrities talking shite' thing that Sky ran recently. Along with several other 'celebrity misconceptions' which were really just well meaning simplifications of complicated issues that they could get a rent a quote 'expert' to dimiss.
Organic or extensively farmed food isn't magically better for you than intensively grown/reared food, but overall it's consistently tested well in most areas compared to it's standard counterpart.
The current big buzz is that milk and meat from extensively reared cows tends to piss all over meat and milk from intensively reared cows where Omega three is concerned (albeit short chain rather than long chain).

There are a couple of foods where there's always come up as minimal difference nutritionally, or in terms of pesticide residue, but in that case we'll still tend to buy organic, as the decision for us has always been as much based around minimising ecological impact as maximising health.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

So if it's organic cucumbers from Israel or chemical sodden cucumbers from Wiltshire which would you choose? Do food miles out weight organicness? Aren't organic farmers allowed to use a certain level of pesticides but still be within the organic classification?

[The Widow of Brid]

So if it's organic cucumbers from Israel or chemical sodden cucumbers from Wiltshire which would you choose? Do food miles out weight organicness?

Generally if it's a choice between airmiles or organic we'll go without. As the only thing anyone in our house is allergic to is Globe artichoke, we eat to what's availlable as a rule.

Aren't organic farmers allowed to use a certain level of pesticides but still be within the organic classification?

They're allowed to use certain levels of categories of pesticides which are ruled not to effect their organic status. A category which is under constamt review with - I believe - an average of three substances being phased out a year.

[Pinball]

Work from home and video conference, if you can. Avoid travel where possible, and use 'mass transit' instead of driving.

But really, in the light of China's 'new coal fired power station every 7 days' economic growth, we're fucked.

[Hypnotoad.]

Stop making cars that run on petrol

I've always considered the emphasis should be taken away from the inidividual, despite most of us doing our bit, and the emphasis should be on big business and the government to work towards removing all products harmful to the environment. Left to their own devices, people will buy shit they shouldnt as "one person can't make a difference"

[bomb_dog]

Stop making cars that run on petrol...
 Left to their own devices, people will buy shit they shouldnt as "one person can't make a difference"

Homer J has hit the nail on the head there. Its a bit like voting LibDem, people won't bother cos they "can't make a difference". I have continuous jokey arguments with people at work about my Nestle and Coca cola boycotts, (after I mentioned my standpoint ONCE, whenever a box of chocs or the like comes out, it's always 'ooh, you can't have one of these if you don't buy Nestle!')

In the long run, Nestle probably don't give a monkeys that I don't buy Lion bars from them anymore, but millions of other people do, but I'm buggered if I'm going to give in.

Not everyone thinks like this however, like Homer J said. We're all too scared to do anything to big business as they'll just move their factories elsewhere. Just look at the "Guideline Daily Amount" (big business sponsored) vs. traffic light scheme (UK Gov sponsored) where food manufacturers have made their own scheme - probably weighted in their favour - to ensure food package symbols say what they want, meaning that people will take less notice of the official Government symbols. Nestle knows best - there's only 'goodness' in the food. That well known ingredient.

We need a bit of Government guidance on some things. People argue that they should be able to do "what they want" when banning smoking is mentioned, however there is no such support for heroin. Try to tell enormous car manufacturers to stop making petrol cars - you'll get a bullet or some polonium in your next bowl of nestle cereals.

Only Government policies can save us now! Is there anyone stupid enough to try?

[jutl]

Endangered species': Just methodically thin out the herds of the non-endangered ones so that everyone's on a level playing field.  They only look endangered by comparison.

...or reclassify endangered species as diseases.

[Pinball]

Stop making cars that run on petrol

I've always considered the emphasis should be taken away from the inidividual, despite most of us doing our bit, and the emphasis should be on big business and the government to work towards removing all products harmful to the environment. Left to their own devices, people will buy shit they shouldnt as "one person can't make a difference"

Stop car companies rampantly selling 4x4s -  it's obscene. The number of adverts you see for these is incredible.

Taking the Toyota Prius 60mpg hybrid car as an example, companies should be forced to produce these more fuel efficient cars. Arguably, 4x4s could be allowed if they met minimum standards, but the 5-10mpg of the biggest ones is just crazy. If LPG is such a good thing (and I'm no expert), then force all car manufacturers to use it. Or make all cars electric. Notwithstanding the problems with where the electricity comes from, at least the roads wouldn't stink, and asthma rates could be reduced.

Encourage business parks to build their own wind turbines, and ditto for local communities (via the councils). Decentralise energy supply away from the interest groups who, frankly, have maintained the fossil fuel status quo for too long. While these groups are still powerful, little will change.

[Pinball]

Here's an example of a wind turbine, in Reading. Great isn't it?

Latest Ecotricity Wind Turbine Goes Up at GreenPark

The 2MW state of the art, Sir Norman Foster designed, Ecotricity turbine will become one of the largest land-based wind turbines in the UK , soaring above junction 11 of the busy M4 motorway, and offering over 60 million people a year an inspiring view of a cleaner future.

The wind power project, an innovative partnership between Ecotricity and Prudential Property Investment Managers Ltd (PruPIM), will generate 4.5 million units (kWh) of green electricity every year. This is just the latest example of Ecotricity's campaign to bring clean electricity to the people. Now up to 1,500 local homes and businesses will be able to get their supply from the appropriately named GreenPark turbine.

And that's from one turbine.


http://www.greenpark.co.uk/whymovetogreenpark/windturbine.shtml

[slim]

A very good reason to buy your electricity from www.ecotricity.co.uk (or others with similar schemes).

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Here's an example of a wind turbine, in Reading. Great isn't it?

Latest Ecotricity Wind Turbine Goes Up at GreenPark

The 2MW state of the art, Sir Norman Foster designed, Ecotricity turbine will become one of the largest land-based wind turbines in the UK , soaring above junction 11 of the busy M4 motorway, and offering over 60 million people a year an inspiring view of a cleaner future.

The wind power project, an innovative partnership between Ecotricity and Prudential Property Investment Managers Ltd (PruPIM), will generate 4.5 million units (kWh) of green electricity every year. This is just the latest example of Ecotricity's campaign to bring clean electricity to the people. Now up to 1,500 local homes and businesses will be able to get their supply from the appropriately named GreenPark turbine.

What happens when the wind doesn't blow? Then you just have to use the power from the gas and nuclear plants
And that's from one turbine.

(picture)
http://www.greenpark.co.uk/whymovetogreenpark/windturbine.shtml

What happens when the wind isn't blowing?

[Pinball]

Then they have to press the red button and activate the underground nuclear pile ;-)

[Blumf]

This was linked up on Slashdot recently.

Some guy has got his whole home (including car) running off solar with hydrogen storage. Cost $500,000 for him, but should be $100,000 for anyone else seeing as the R&D is now done. Still not affordable, but getting better. Biggest problem, after cost, is the 1000 ft^2 of solar panels needed, so not for everybody just yet, but we're getting closer.

[Pinball]

Bring it on.

[Brutus Beefcake]

Wipe out humanity starting with people who don't read threads properly.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Hey I already said that. Stop stealing my ideas. Meanie. I'm telling Miss.

[Blumf]

Just kill him, it'll count towards your carbon credits.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Can I burn him to death and then off set the released carbon by planting a tree or shrubbery?

[Pinball]

The world to be saved by a herbacious border. That's nice. I'm sure my mother would approve :-)