Bands that got worse or better after the introduction or departing of a band member.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Until a few years ago I'd always really disliked the band Ultravox, they seemed to me like the cliched over wrought 80s pomp that I really don't like that much, but then Mark and Lard kept playing the song Young Savage on their now defunct Radio 1 show. I couldn't believe it was the same band. A punky, aggressive sing along without a synth in sight. So to my ears the introduction of Midge Ure to Ultravox and their transformation into New Romantic toss pots was defiantly a turn for the worse.

[Go With The Flow]

Queens of the Stone Age

Songs For The Deaf - Nick Oliveri = Lullabies to Paralyse.

A definite decline for QOTSA.

[Tetsuo: Ironmonger]

Pink Floyd became worse minus Syd Barrett, better plus David Gilmour (a nice cosy cancelling-out there), and later got worse again minus Roger Waters, leaving a clinical husk of pish for the most part.

[Derek Trucks]

Gilmour joined before Barrett left, they were a 5-piece for a couple of months.

[Sovereign]

Metallica went steeply downhill after losing Cliff Burton, well perhaps not steeply but they never did anything as overwhelmingly definitive as Master of Puppets after he died.

[Tetsuo: Ironmonger]

Gilmour joined before Barrett left, they were a 5-piece for a couple of months.

So they were. Then they must have been SUPER awesome for just a couple of months!

[Brutus Beefcake]

Faith No More + Mike Patton is an obvious one.

[23 Daves]

To my mind, Depeche Mode got better after Vince Clarke left, though I know plenty of people who disagree.  "Speak and Spell" is a rush-recorded, fairly insubstantial album full of irritating ditties, the second album "A Broken Frame" has a lot of more complicated arrangements, sampling, excursions into reggae, and a recording of the two members of Blancmange marching around the studio.  Brilliant stuff, much better than the plinky-plonky jingles they peddled on the first LP (though the singles off it are top-hole).

A band who got obviously worse are The Sex Pistols - arguably a lot worse after Sid Vicious joined as replacement for Glen Matlock, and absolutely without a doubt piss-poor after John Lydon quit.  

Pink Floyd are a complicated case in point. They definitely deteriorated after Syd left, but the first few post-Syd albums (up to and including "Atom Heart Mother") are still mighty fine in my view.  "A Saucerful of Secrets" and "More" regularly get spins from me, and I purchased them all about fifteen years ago.  After that point, though, I can't listen to them anymore.  I think "Atom Heart' possibly marks the point where they turned from psychedelic into prog, and that's what changed their style more heavily than personnel shifts and changes.  Though where "Ummagumma" quite fits into this theory of mine I'm not sure.

[CaledonianGonzo]

The Stones got better after the departure of Brian Jones.  Granted, they were great when he was in the band as well, but there's something about the Mick Taylor period that makes it my favourite era by a long chalk.

[Panbaams]

To my mind, Depeche Mode got better after Vince Clarke left, though I know plenty of people who disagree.  "Speak and Spell" is a rush-recorded, fairly insubstantial album full of irritating ditties, the second album "A Broken Frame" has a lot of more complicated arrangements, sampling, excursions into reggae, and a recording of the two members of Blancmange marching around the studio.  Brilliant stuff, much better than the plinky-plonky jingles they peddled on the first LP (though the singles off it are top-hole).

What about the three albums since Alan Wilder left (Ultra, Exciter, Playing the Angel)? Songs of Faith and Devotion is probably my favourite DM LP but the most recent three have been very good, too.

[kaprisky]

The Mode haven't been the same band since Alan Wilder left (I Feel Loved is probably the worst song they've put out, no bite or anything). I know that Gore wrote most of the songs and Gahan sung most of them but Wilder's influence on the production and arrangement shouldn't be underestimated. Also he seemed to be the best musician out of the lot as well, as evidenced in Depeche Mode 101.

Another similar example, Bill Berry leaving REM, although this may be harder to prove.

[Famous Mortimer]

The Doors without Jim Morrison. There are a few Doors albums with Jess Roden on them, which I can't even begin to imagine. Well, I can, I'm not odd, I'm just exaggerating for effect.Worse

The Beatles without Pete Best. A bit obvious, and so on. Better

[trotsky assortment]

The Stones got better after the departure of Brian Jones.  Granted, they were great when he was in the band as well, but there's something about the Mick Taylor period that makes it my favourite era by a long chalk.

Mine too.  Are we in the minority?!

[trotsky assortment]

I really hated Therapy?  after they became a four piece.

[Bamber Hopcraft]

Westlife, after Brian left.

[Joy Nktonga]

Better or worse?

Similarly, Spice Girls after Geri.

Also similarly, but with added can-tell-either-way-ness: Take That after Robbie - worse.

[aaaaaaaaaargh!]

The Stones got better after the departure of Brian Jones.  Granted, they were great when he was in the band as well, but there's something about the Mick Taylor period that makes it my favourite era by a long chalk.

Mine too.  Are we in the minority?!

The Mick Taylor period also coincided with Jimmy Miller producing didn't it.  Certainly there was a marked change when he took over from Andrew Loog Oldham.

[asv]

R.E.M, worse after Billy Berry left.

Now, I really like Up, and Reveal has some great poppy moments, and Around the Sun is not the turkey it is often made out to be but undeniably the quality has dropped.

Despite the shared writing credits it is common knowledge that Berry came up with "Perfect Circle" and the basic structure of "Everybody Hurts" and was the rockier/poppier heart of the band (seemingly insisting on a "rock" album after Out of Time and Automatic...).

[lipsink]

Oasis after Tony McCarroll left. They replaced him with the more photogenic Alan White. McCarroll wasn't in any way a creative force in the band but i think his departure mirrored the change when Oasis stopped becoming just a bunch of local Manchester boys to being sucked up in the whole celebrity tabloid whirlwind. Basically after Some Might Say:  we had the terrible Roll With It and all the overbloated 'hits', a disappointing second album and the rest is history. . Although some great B-sides from the Morning Glory era.

[The Mumbler]

New Order without Gillian Gilbert. I really am beginning to wonder if she wrote all the tunes. (Although they did Ceremony and In A Lonely Place before she joined, and they're ace.)

[buttgammon]

New Order without Gillian Gilbert. I really am beginning to wonder if she wrote all the tunes. (Although they did Ceremony and In A Lonely Place before she joined, and they're ace.)

I don't quite see the point in Phil Cunningham even being there! Does he do any studio work or is he just somebody who helps them out while they're touring? Because in the studio, I'd have thought Barney could deal with all of the guitar parts. They could record as a three piece and just have Phil or anyone else as a live guitarist/keyboard player, surely. And he has a different role to Gillian, so it's hardly a 'straight swap' anyway. She just played bits of guitar on a handful of songs live and mostly dealt with the synths, while Phil plays more guitar than keyboard.

[CaledonianGonzo]

trotsky assortment wrote:
CaledonianGonzo wrote:
The Stones got better after the departure of Brian Jones. Granted, they were great when he was in the band as well, but there's something about the Mick Taylor period that makes it my favourite era by a long chalk.


Mine too. Are we in the minority?!


The Mick Taylor period also coincided with Jimmy Miller producing didn't it. Certainly there was a marked change when he took over from Andrew Loog Oldham.

Pretty much, though Jones was present (at least in body) during the majority of sessions for Beggar's Banquet, which was Miller's first (after the self-produced Satanic Majesties.)  

In reply to trotsky, I reckon if you sat most fans down they'd choose the albums from the Mick Taylor years as being the best.  However, I reckon when the public at large think about the Stones (if at all) it's the Brian Jones years they think of first.  Despite the singles from 69-74 being just as good as the preceding years, there's just far fewer of them (5?).  Tracks like Tumbling Dice haven't quite pervaded the pop consciousness the way that Paint it, Black and Satisfaction have.  Though I reckon Exile would still top any poll as their best album.

[Peking O]

The Flaming Lips got steadily better after Steven Drozd joined, peaked with The Soft Bulletin, and are now steadily heading back downhill again.

[Deadman97]

I really hated Therapy?  after they became a four piece.

Have you tried them recently? Pick it up with High Anxiety, it's an awesome record. They sound like a brand-new band.

[The Mumbler]

Stereolab have lost something since Mary Hansen's untimely death. Hard to pinpoint what it is, exactly, though.

For me, The Cure seemed to become irrelevant after Lol Tolhurst's stormy departure. It does sound like he did bugger all while he was in the group (particularly from the mid-80s), but they've barely made a record I've liked since he left.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Queens of the Stone Age

Songs For The Deaf - Nick Oliveri = Lullabies to Paralyse.

A definite decline for QOTSA.

Sadly that's probably true. I don't know how involved he was in the writing, but Oliveri certainly brought a lot of stage presence and rock 'n' roll spirit to the band (which seemed to manifest itself in cunish behaviour offstage) and he was a great and surprisingly verstile singer, so his main benefit to the band was as a second frontman. To paraphrse Derek Smalls, Oliveri was fire and Homme was ice, but now it's just the Josh Homme solo band, which is more like luke warm water.

I'd need to listen to their debut album, from before he joined the band, to know for sure though. You could argue that it was Dave Grohl's presence that really kicked the band up a notch.

On a similar note, Mani joining Primal Scream led to them making the best album of their career in XTRMNTR.

[El Unicornio, mang]

The Manics turned shit after Richey "left". He wouldn't have been seen dead wearing Littlewoods sports casual gear for one thing.

[trotsky assortment]

I really hated Therapy?  after they became a four piece.

Have you tried them recently? Pick it up with High Anxiety, it's an awesome record. They sound like a brand-new band.

Since you've recommended it, yes, I'll give that a whirl.  I was quite a fan way back.  'Infernal Love', though, I found rather dull.  And the one after that, I can barely remember; if that was 'Suicide Pact - You First', then I found that largely unlistenable.

As for the Manics - as I'm often heard to say regarding 90% of their post 'Bible' output: [sings] If he tolerates this, then poor Richie must be dead...

[trotsky assortment]

The Flaming Lips got steadily better after Steven Drozd joined, peaked with The Soft Bulletin, and are now steadily heading back downhill again.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks 'Yoshimi' is nowhere near as good as everyone else seems to think it is.

[boki]

I really hated Therapy?  after they became a four piece.

Have you tried them recently? Pick it up with High Anxiety, it's an awesome record. They sound like a brand-new band.

Since you've recommended it, yes, I'll give that a whirl.  I was quite a fan way back.  'Infernal Love', though, I found rather dull.  And the one after that, I can barely remember; if that was 'Suicide Pact - You First', then I found that largely unlistenable.

As for the Manics - as I'm often heard to say regarding 90% of their post 'Bible' output: [sings] If he tolerates this, then poor Richie must be dead...

I think the thing about Therapy? "now" (well, last three albums) is that their current drummer (Neil Cooper) is more in the mould of Fyfe than Graham was, ie a bit flashier, hammering out massive breakbeats and the like.  Neil was known to them from when Therapy and The Beyond played a bunch of gigs together in their early days, so it's put a little of that old experimental fire back in there.  I've gone reaching for me old Beyond 12"s now...