Bands that got worse or better after the introduction or departing of a band member.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Peking O wrote:
The Flaming Lips got steadily better after Steven Drozd joined, peaked with The Soft Bulletin, and are now steadily heading back downhill again.


Glad I'm not the only one who thinks 'Yoshimi' is nowhere near as good as everyone else seems to think it is.

While I'd agree with that, I thought At War With The Mystics was a real return to form.  Though it seems I'm the only one that thinks so.

[surreal]

Van Halen were worse after David Lee Roth left, then even worse after Hagar left... just hoping they won't be worse still now Roth is back and Michael Anthony is gone...  Similarly David Lee Roth's band deteriorated after Billy Sheehan left, then again after Steve Vai departed.

[trotsky assortment]

On the Van Halen thing, while I'm in total agreement about Cherone, I've always felt that Hagar was their best vocalist, but Roth remained the best frontman/showman.  Such a shame they never had a frontman who could combine these two aspects.

[niat]

I've gone reaching for me old Beyond 12"s now...

I remember first seeing the Beyond on Raw Power or one of those other late night rock shows and was impressed enough to buy "Chasm" on cassette. Good stuff. I later got "Crawl" on CD, which is another excellent album.

Do you know if "Chasm" or any of their other stuff was released on CD? I'm intrigued by your 12"s (oo-er), what sort of stuff have you got?

[Neville Chamberlain]

I was going to write something about The Fall but then I got all confused.

[mothman]

So, um, Eternal without Louise?

Exeunt, pursued by a bear.

[aaaaaaaaaargh!]

Westlife without McFadden.

Joins mothman

[Famous Mortimer]

Sugababes without the lovely redhaired Siobhan

Three for three

[boki]

I've gone reaching for me old Beyond 12"s now...

I remember first seeing the Beyond on Raw Power or one of those other late night rock shows and was impressed enough to buy "Chasm" on cassette. Good stuff. I later got "Crawl" on CD, which is another excellent album.

Do you know if "Chasm" or any of their other stuff was released on CD? I'm intrigued by your 12"s (oo-er), what sort of stuff have you got?

Yeah, 'Chasm' came out on CD, but they'd left EMI by that point and had gone to Music For Nations, who've since gone bust.  That album never really made much of an impression on me, I guess it just doesn't have that WTF factor that hearing 'Crawl' the first few times did.  As for the 12"s, I was fortunate enough to find 'Manic Sound Panic' in the Camden MVE en route to a CaB meet (see, how it all ties together?), so there's that 'Empire' and 'One Step Too Far'.  I've got the 'Raging' EP on CD knocking about somewhere too (there's tracklistings to most of those here).  The funny thing is, I've accumulated alll this stuff after the band broke up/morphed into Gorilla, so it's just been a case of spotting stuff on 2nd hand trawls really.

[lipsink]

Elvis without Elvis.

[MonkeyDrummer]

Not seen it mentioned, but Faith No More after Jim Martin left.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

They got worse or better?

[Ciarán2]

Bros got worse when "Ken" left.

[MonkeyDrummer]

Not seen it mentioned, but Faith No More after Jim Martin left.

arrghh, not having a great day today. They got worse.

[The Plunger]

Suede definitely got worse after Bernard Butler left. Watching their slow decline was quite painful (although 'Coming Up' wasn't bad).

[Doctor Stamen]

Idlewild went downhill after Bob left, though the new album is edging them in the right direction.

[houselights]

I was going to write something about The Fall but then I got all confused.

got (even) better when Brix joined.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

Anyone mentioned the Clash? I never even bothered buying Cut the Crap and I used to be the biggest Clash fan in the world. I know technically I might enjoy it, but I just can't see it happening. So yeah, Mick Jones left the Clash and they got worse.
More importantly though: The Misfits and Glenn Danzig. They went their separate ways to make their own separate mediocre music. Without Danzig the Misfits are embarrassing. See also Dead Kennedys and Biafra. I suppose both of them are reforming without the main person though which is a bit different.

[The Region Legion]

Not seen it mentioned, but Faith No More after Jim Martin left.

arrghh, not having a great day today. They got worse.

The opposite for me. It's only their last two albums that are worth listening to at all, but then again I always preferred Mr Bungle anyway so it makes sense that I'd think that.

[Anon]

Not seen it mentioned, but Faith No More after Jim Martin left.

arrghh, not having a great day today. They got worse.

The opposite for me. It's only their last two albums that are worth listening to at all, but then again I always preferred Mr Bungle anyway so it makes sense that I'd think that.

I'm an awkward middler...I reckon King For A Day comes bloody close to Angel Dust at times, but that Album Of The Year was a definitie drop in quality.  Not a bad album, but waay too nu-metal for my liking.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

I'd agree, King For Day has my favourite FNM songs on it, although it does drop off towards the end, but Album Of The Year is fairly middling apart from a few tracks like 'Last Cup of Sorrow' which are as good as anything they did. They are still both a bit sensible and narrow minded compared to Angel Dust though.

[Paaaaul]

Jim Martin did next to nothing on Angel Dust.
I love Angel Dust.

[niat]

Jim Martin did next to nothing on Angel Dust.
I love Angel Dust.

A man with taste. Very true about Jim's minimal contribution to Angel Dust, and KFADFFAL was a fantastic album. Tails off towards the end? Nonsense! The last 4 tracks are some of the finest FNM tracks, and indeed tracks, of all time:

King for a Day
What a Day
The Last to Know
Just a Man

Solid fucking gold.

[non capisco]

Anyone mentioned the Clash? I never even bothered buying Cut the Crap and I used to be the biggest Clash fan in the world. I know technically I might enjoy it, but I just can't see it happening.
.

Yep, Mick Jones leaving the Clash is a great example of this. 'Cut The Crap' is comfortably the worst album I've ever paid money for. I bought it half for the sake of completism and half out of curiosity at hearing if it's as legendarily shit as people say. It's not even interestingly shit, it sounds like a load of blokes at kicking out time shouting over someone mucking about with one of those key rings kids used to have with buttons on that made different electronic 'bomb' noises.

I think Howard Jones went shit after the mime left.

[morgs]

I didn't think it at the time, but I feel subsequently that Marillion improved and improved after Fish left.

[jamiefairlie]

New Order without Gillian Gilbert. I really am beginning to wonder if she wrote all the tunes. (Although they did Ceremony and In A Lonely Place before she joined, and they're ace.)

They are indeed but they were of course written with the full assistance of one I. Curtis.

[micanio]

Faith No More + Mike Patton is an obvious one.

FNM - Jim Martin = shite.....

Regarding Pink Floyd - I don't think you can compare Barrett's Pink Floyd and Gilmour's Pink Floyd - barring 1 album (Saucerful of Secrets) I think they are 2 entirely seperate entities. Same goes for the Post-Waters PF.

Post-Waters isn't all that bad though - there are some amazing songs on MLOR and Division Bell (there is some shite too - they need tolose the drum machines....)

[samadriel]

Not seen it mentioned, but Faith No More after Jim Martin left.

arrghh, not having a great day today. They got worse.

Y'reckon?  Interesting.  I couldn't stand the 'poppiness' of early FNM, nor Mike Patton's adolescent yowling vocals of the time -- from 'Angel Dust' onward, however, I really enjoyed their more baroque sound, and Mike Patton's much deeper/loonier vocals.

But then, 'King for a Day' is (narrowly) my favourite FNM album, and I hate 'Epic', so I'm a bit of an oddity as FNM fans go...

[Labian Quest]

I agree with ASV and Kaprisky about REM being better when Bill Berry was in them, certainly on record anyway  (because they do sound a bit tighter live now with the new bloke) REM are a perfect example of how important chemistry is - they were all competent musicians (though none of them were virtuosos) but they did all have a lot of musical intelligence - the psychic power you need in order to play as a band and if the records are anything to go by Bill was a very big part of that.

[phantom_power]

I agree with ASV and Kaprisky about REM being better when Bill Berry was in them, certainly on record anyway  (because they do sound a bit tighter live now with the new bloke) REM are a perfect example of how important chemistry is - they were all competent musicians (though none of them were virtuosos) but they did all have a lot of musical intelligence - the psychic power you need in order to play as a band and if the records are anything to go by Bill was a very big part of that.

i think the decline of rem is more down to a general progression rather than berry leaving. everything since automatic for the people is a shadow of what the band are capable of and berry leaving only added to an existing problem rather than instigating it. even automatic, good though it is, isn't really classic rem.