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March 29, 2024, 07:45:01 AM

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The "It Was All Chris!" Syndrome

Started by TJ, March 24, 2004, 10:34:59 AM

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TJ

Something that appears to be resurfacing with a vengeance as previews for the TDT DVD begin in earnest; the implied idea that Chris Morris was entirely responsible for every last second of the programme. Now don't get me wrong; Morris probably deserves a hefty (if not the largest) slice of the credit, as the show simply wouldn't have been what it was without his contribution, but a lot of people (journalists and fans alike) seem curiously reluctant to give any credit to any of the others. Very occasionally Coogan will get a mention (though only for Alan Partridge, never for "is *this* cool?" or "can you sum it up in a noise?"), but you never really see Marber namechecked for his outstanding performances and comic timing, Schneider for his amazing physical comedy, Baynham for his ideas, Iannucci for being the individual that pulled it all together, or Front or McKichan for anything really. As for poor old Lee and Herring, their contribution to and influence on "On The Hour" is barely acknowledged anywhere; and on the rare occasions that it is, there are a subsector of Chris Morris fans who seem keen to play down their involvement in the show (which, in terms of writing credits, often equals Morris' for individual editions). And beyond this, there is the whole thorny area of Morris being credited by journalists for sketches that he often had no involvement in whatsoever.

This is nothing new, of course. Eric Idle and Terry Gilliam are generally dismissed as the 'lesser' Pythons, yet if you read that massive "The Pythons" book you'll see page after page of the others going out of their way to stress how important they both were to the show; Idle as a gifted script editor who had a knack for extracting bits that did work out of lengthy sketches that didn't, and Gilliam as the team member who essentially set the entire format and visual style of the show. Similarly, Spike Milligan often complained about fans who didn't regard Michael Bentine as a 'proper' Goon, pointing out that "he used to make us cry laughing in the studio" (and on top of this, it's likely that without Bentine's status and influence as an established performer, "The Goon Show" would not have been quite as free to develop in the way that it did).

Any other examples? And any thoughts on how and why this comes about?

[Edit to remove lone occurrence of word 'Marber' at foot of post]

Purple Tentacle

Not forgetting, of course, that the pious vicar from OTH (I can't remember his bloody name! Help!) was used very effectively on TMWRNJ, played hilariously by Kevin Eldon, and quite a few other Lee and Herring contributions that saw a more effective lease-of-life on the television.

Neville Chamberlain

With regard to the DVD release of The Day Today, isn't it more the case that the TDT is being touted as a Steve Coogan vehicle? Amazon, for example, only credit "Steve Coogan (actor)".

The Python is a puzzler because to me that has never been anything less than an ensemble piece.

Something like the day today - which has a main host - is more understandable because performance wise it clearly has a 'leader' (Which isn't to detract from the brilliant performances all round) - in terms of out and out fame I guess Coogan pips all the others but because the show is presented by Chris Morris I guess most people are in little doubt that he is the 'star' and as such they attribute it all to him and always will. If it was an all equal ensemble when it comes to presenting then people probably would fixate on Coogan as he went on to be the biggest name in the same way that I imagine people consider John Cleese the true Python.

I don't know who wrote which bits of TDT myself, or On The Hour. Might be a fun game to try and guess - perhaps someone in the know could print a list of TDT sketches and see if us less knowledged can hazzard a guess at each one?

You know what would cure all this though don't you? A dvd commentary where they actually discuss everyones involvement... ho hum.

[Edit to add lone occurrence of word 'Copperfield' at foot of post]

Copperfield

Purple Tentacle

Quote from: "Munday's Chylde"
I don't know who wrote which bits of TDT myself, or On The Hour. Might be a fun game to try and guess - perhaps someone in the know could print a list of TDT sketches and see if us less knowledged can hazzard a guess at each one?
You know what would cure all this though don't you? A dvd commentary where they actually discuss everyones involvement... ho hum.

What, like "Ha ha ha, this is the bit we stole from Lee and Herring, after we edited them out of the radio show!" sort of thing?

Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"
Quote from: "Munday's Chylde"
I don't know who wrote which bits of TDT myself, or On The Hour. Might be a fun game to try and guess - perhaps someone in the know could print a list of TDT sketches and see if us less knowledged can hazzard a guess at each one?
You know what would cure all this though don't you? A dvd commentary where they actually discuss everyones involvement... ho hum.

What, like "Ha ha ha, this is the bit we stole from Lee and Herring, after we edited them out of the radio show!" sort of thing?

ah... well... perhaps we could get TJ to sit in the studio with them when they record the commentary and frown at them when it looks like they're going to stretch the truth a bit...

Gamma Ray

Quote from: "TJ"Any other examples? And any thoughts on how and why this comes about?

I'm not sure why it comes about - perhaps it's laziness, perhaps it's because the information isn't always immediately obvious (i.e. from watching/listening to the show). I do know what you mean - Morris is for some reason more associated with The Day Today etc. than any of the other contributors. For instance I never knew that Lee and Herring had a hand in On The Hour until someone mentioned it here. I also used to just assume that Blue Jam was mostly written by Morris, but have since learnt that Peter Baynham, Graham Linehan, Arthur Mathews, and Robert Katz among others were in all probability responsible for some of my favourite parts of the show. As far as that goes, I think that it might be because Morris is more obviously associated with the end product (not least through performing large parts of it)  than the writing teams. As for The Day Today - I remember at school people coming in the next day saying Is he cool? and pointing at some nerd who'd just had his face broken. It may be because of that I've never been able to associate it solely with Chris Morris ...

Thinking about it, there's two different categories - writers/producers not duly credited (which is more understandable because their role is less visible) and performers not credited, which is less understandable.

european son

Quote from: "Gamma Ray"writers/producers not duly credited (which is more understandable because their role is less visible)

yep.... there's good reason why the kids know who Kylie Minogue is, but possibly not who Cathy Dennis is.

Godzilla Bankrolls

I'd love to see a guide to who wrote what sketches for OTH/TDT/BJ/J. I can separate Morris from Lee and Herring, and pick out Baynham ideas, but I can only identify a few Linehan/Matthews stuff, and I'll be pooed if I can place the others (bar Katz on the monologues).

Linehan and Matthews wrote the Bowie's Romantic Dinners sketch, shurely?

elderford

Richard Curtis gets the kudos for being the writer, but his girlfriend Emma Freud edits his scripts.

Well for On The Hour, I'd say all the "colour supplement" stuff is Lee & Herring - given away somewhat when Lee is doing various voiceovers during it but nowhere else in the program. They say Peter O'Hanrahanrahan was theirs too.

TJ

Quote from: "DevlinC"Well for On The Hour, I'd say all the "colour supplement" stuff is Lee & Herring - given away somewhat when Lee is doing various voiceovers during it but nowhere else in the program. They say Peter O'Hanrahanrahan was theirs too.

Also the bulk of the Green Desks, Prayer Desks and Sports Desks, and a lot of the longer form reports (Thank God It's Satire Day, There's Been A Miracle, Barton's Matches etc). Probably some more too. Alan?

TotalNightmare

its funny...

But i replied to this on the other L&H thread about On The Hour...

But i aint for repeating myself!

Word

hoverdonkey

Why does this come about? Probably because Morris is the 'face' of TDT. He is the presenter and therefore attracts the most attention.

In just the same way that Jon Snow  is associated with the Channel Four evening news. That doesn't mean he's written, filmed, edited and voiced all the reports.

king mob

Quote from: "hoverdonkey"Why does this come about? Probably because Morris is the 'face' of TDT. He is the presenter and therefore attracts the most attention.

In just the same way that Jon Snow  is associated with the Channel Four evening news. That doesn't mean he's written, filmed, edited and voiced all the reports.

I'd love to watch a C4 news with Jon & Peter Snow teaming up for the first time, it would be as manic as hell.

Jon

I guess it's mostly a case of lazy journalist slags not being arsed to get it right.  Chris Morris is the semi-high-profile God-like genius and the TDT anchorman, so it's easier just to say it's his show.  It's easier to write and easier for people to fit into their brain than explaining it was actually a group effort by Morris, Coogan, Schneider, Front, Marber, Iannucci, Quantick, Linehan, Matthews, Wells, etc.

As for the L&H thing, presumably you could work out which bits of OTH were theirs by listening to the edited release and the original episodes and noting which sketches don't appear in the edited version.

alan strang

Quote from: "TJ"Probably some more too. Alan?

Damn - I've just lined the budgie cage with all the PasBs.

'Desk Desk' is one I'd like to hear. I think it got rejected though.

fbb bastard

Quote from: "TJ". Very occasionally Coogan will get a mention (though only for Alan Partridge, never for "is *this* cool?" or "can you sum it up in a noise?"), but you never really see Marber namechecked for his outstanding performances and comic timing, Schneider for his amazing physical comedy, Baynham for his ideas, Iannucci for being the individual that pulled it all together, or Front or McKichan for anything really.

extremely good point actually..particularly in the case of rebecca and doon...they always get the show plonked in the middle or after their names in terms of points of recognition (although doon normally now as smack the pony) but the sheer marvellous of their respective contributions never ever gets a mention

marber did get the occasional shout out (a review of the video release in melody maker by andrew mueller made a good case of marber being the secret star of the show) though not as much as he deserves

Godzilla Bankrolls

Quote from: "DevlinC"Well for On The Hour, I'd say all the "colour supplement" stuff is Lee & Herring - given away somewhat when Lee is doing various voiceovers during it but nowhere else in the program. They say Peter O'Hanrahanrahan was theirs too.

I don't think S Lee did any voices at all. Like I said, I can identify L&H's stuff, but what about Quantick, Wells et al?

NobodyGetsOutAlive

Yeah, this pisses me off a lot too. On one of the post-BES news reports downloads you even get the reporter saying something along the lines of how Brass Eye is a "one-man show" even though it has alengthy cast list. Everything that Morris has done has been a collaborative effort surely, except for perhaps the GLR shows and parts of the Radio 1 shows?



Regardless of this though, I still think it's down to him that the TDT extras aren't what they could have been

Quote from: "Beloved Aunt"I don't think S Lee did any voices at all. Like I said, I can identify L&H's stuff, but what about Quantick, Wells et al?

The reporter on that "this is the sound of an old womans face hitting my car windscreen" is definately Lee, as are a few of the adverts I think. Very distinctive sounding voice.

EDIT: Just making a point of my own lies - the reporter was Steve Coogan, after listening a bit more closely whilst on the train today. I think the reason I thought it was Lee was the trademark "yeah... no" after the guy says "yes they can be heard, they are sounds after all". Oh well.

Darrell

Stewart Lee does not appear anywhere in On The Hour.

dan dirty ape

Isn't he one of the railcrash victim's voices in the pilot?

Darrell

Quote from: "dan dirty ape"Isn't he one of the railcrash victim's voices in the pilot?

No.

Godzilla Bankrolls

Morris tends to do all the voices in his reports, unless he's interviewing or 'pranking' someone.

ApexJazz

Just curious, now that I know all the cross-over to On The Hour, did David Quantick ever write for Week-Ending? Enlighten me o' media experts!