Steven Moffat

[Munday's Chylde]

I don't think this man gets any of the appreciation he deserves, to my mind he's the best talent in British sitcom writing working today.

I love 'Coupling'. It suffers from comparisons to Friends at base level (6 attractive young things hanging out in a coffee bar) but really I reckon it has more in common with Seinfeld with its multi-layered twisting and turning plots. But it isn't just a rip-off of components of American style sitcoms; it has a voice all of it's own - one of the trademarks of coupling is the disregard for structure which I think stands it out from the crowd, the scenes in each episode frequently jump erratically about in time or are replayed from different points of view - one episode took place entirely in split screen, another featured a scene played twice in two different languages (with the translation swapping about). I would imagine writing of this nature is very hard to do and it's a credit to Moffat that I don't think he's ever failed with it.

And it's funny! Yes its - although not without it's weak points, the characters aren't brilliantly fleshed out and he doesn't write women well... But then he doesn't need to because he's got Geoff, who if you ask me ranks right up there with George Costanza vying for the title of best ever sitcom character.

Another older Moffat programme which used to use the same playing with the structure techniques was called 'Joking Apart' which ran for two series in the early nineties and which at the time I thought was probably the best comedy I'd ever seen. I know it's fondly remembered by a couple of other people on here but I assume no bugger ever watched it at the time because a third series was never made and I don't think it's ever been repeated, even on cable.

His other sitcom 'Chalk' was recognised as a disaster, which is probably what keeps his name out of great comedy discussions. He himself seems to want to distance himself from it (if you've seen his interview on the coupling DVD) which is a shame because I genuinely remember it being quite good - the chief problem seemed to be that the main character was doing a bad basil fawlty impression, although Fawlty type farces ensued in the show I actually think if the deputy head had been played a bit straighter, calmer and less manic - more blackadder than fawlty - then it would have been appreciated more. That said I must be honest and confess this aired during my university years and although I watched every episode I was watching it through a haze of brown smoke and did tend to laugh at just about anything, I haven't seen it since.

The other programme he's famous for is 'press-gang' which isn't really a sitcom, it's a children's comedy drama... but hey, it's the best damn children's comedy drama you've ever seen!

So anyway, yeah. Steven Moffat - I like him.

[Partridge's Love Child]

Another older Moffat programme which used to use the same playing with the structure techniques was called 'Joking Apart' which ran for two series in the early nineties and which at the time I thought was probably the best comedy I'd ever seen. I know it's fondly remembered by a couple of other people on here but I assume no bugger ever watched it at the time because a third series was never made and I don't think it's ever been repeated, even on cable.

Yup, one of them you talk about is me.  I remember it was pissingly hilarious.  I hope that one day I'll see it again and not be disappointed.  You'd think that Robert Bathurst's subsequent Cold Feet semi-stardom might've encouraged the Beeb to slap it on somewhere, but no.  Fuckwits.  It had that fella that plays the bus tour paedophile in Brass Eye Special as his ex-wife's new beau, you know.

[Purple Tentacle]

I liked Chalk, it had one of my favouritest comedy moments in (although contrived as hell).


The old English teacher has died in his chair while teaching, (corpse, very Fawlty), and the manic teacher is trying to remove the body from the class without the kids noticing and freaking out.

TEACHER: "Right class, I want you all to close your eyes and......um.... think of a wish you want to come true!"

The kids close their eyes, and the teacher wheels the corpse out of the room... but one boy opens his eyes too early..

BOY: "Look! Mr Brown has died!"

TEACHER: "RIGHT!!! Who wished for THAT??"




I think it was shown when comedy was very good.... if they put it on now, possibly after Eastenders, it would probably go to five series.

[DuncanC]

Heh, I remember quite liking Chalk too.

[Morrisfan82]

I remember Chalk being pretty splendid too as it goes.

It was probably viewed as a failure because it was on BBC1 in a 9:30pm slot from the outset. For some reason, when this happens with a new sitcom & it starts getting promoted, the viewers go "ey up, there's a new sitcom coming to the BBC! And not the crap channel, the decent one! This should be nothing short of mind-blowing!". Then it cometh on, and lo, the people doth go "mleh, it's a bit off-the-wall/obtuse/there's no funney men from other teevee shows in it" or whatever, which is absolutely fair enough, but because it even had the bare-faced audacity to be promoted as a new BBC1 sitcom in the first place it can easily be Chalked down as a failure, even if many people enjoyed it.

They should've put Chalk on BBC2 until it got popular, then it could've gone on BBC1 blah blah blah wanker...

The above is a completely unbalanced and fairly whimsical opinion from a cynical nob, so be my guest to destroy it with reasoned argument, I realise it's paper-thin & full of holes.

But the point I'm myopically stabbing at is that there is often an irritatingly large discrepancy between shows that were good & fairly popular, and their reputation for being 'a flop' or 'a ratings disaster' or what-have-you, just because of however the sense of expectation in the target audience manifested itself.

[gazzyk1ns]

Coupling was repeated recently and I remember catching bits of episodes and thinking it was worth a watch, so I tuned in for a couple of these repeats... oh dear.

The writing is absolutely rubbish Mundays, the characters are ridiculous and unbearable - one of the episodes I sat through was 15-20 scenes, all with the same concept:

Kerrrazeee quirky guy [has just seen a nice woman]: "Oh, hello...er..." [gurns hopelessly whilst audience piss themselves]

New nice woman: "Hello..."

Kerrrazeee quirky guy: [gurns more, audience carry on pissing themselves]

Nice new woman: "Erm, so..." [audience laughter must be on a repeat loop by now because it's impossible for any human to laugh for that long and that hysterically]

Kerrrazeee quirky guy: "Can I suck your tits and fuck you up the bum please?" [audience erupt into even greater hysterics]

Nice new woman: [shocked expression]

Kerrrazeee quirky guy: [desperate, embarrassed gurns] "Oh... err.... sorry... what I meant so say was ... 'would you like to go for a drink'..." [further 5 full minutes of hysterical laughter and possibly applause]

...And that's basically it, some scenes feature a role reversal and sometimes it's one of the two less kerrazeee guys. Occasionally, to be fair, they insert a scene of the black haired woman being an airhead and/or a slut; and there's always that intolerable shitty scene where one of the three guys/gals says "oh, that's [acronym]." in response to something. The others look puzzled, and then the character says what it stands for - probably something like "UFO - Unattached Fit Object" from that Bingo ad, at which the audience howl in laughter for another 5 minutes. But that's about as much as you're getting.

The plots are rubbish too Mundays, I can't believe you think they're comparable to Seinfeld? Me or you or anyone similar could write tish like that, all you do is have two people plan a date and then think of a vaguely unpredictable way to end it - have them both trying to cancel on each other because of mates' advice but they end up going anyway 'by mistake', have an hilarious encounter where the bloke cancels in favour of another blind date who is the original date's mum/sister, or some other wacky shit like that. That's rubbish writing, the writers of things like Game On etc. just churn out plots similar to that every episode for the background story, so the episode/series has some structure to hold the real comedy together.

I've not seen Chalk since it was first on but I remember thinking it was appalling at the time; I didn't realise Moffat wrote Coupling until this latest run of repeats, but I'd remembered the name from Chalk all those years ago and there was a definite association with "shite" in my head when I read the Coupling credits.

In summary then, exactly the opposite of Mundays.

[Munday's Chylde]

Kerrrazeee quirky guy [has just seen a nice woman]: "Oh, hello...er..." [gurns hopelessly whilst audience piss themselves]

New nice woman: "Hello..."

Kerrrazeee quirky guy: [gurns more, audience carry on pissing themselves]

Nice new woman: "Erm, so..." [audience laughter must be on a repeat loop by now because it's impossible for any human to laugh for that long and that hysterically]

Kerrrazeee quirky guy: "Can I suck your tits and fuck you up the bum please?" [audience erupt into even greater hysterics]

Nice new woman: [shocked expression]

Kerrrazeee quirky guy: [desperate, embarrassed gurns] "Oh... err.... sorry... what I meant so say was ... 'would you like to go for a drink'..." [further 5 full minutes of hysterical laughter and possibly applause]

...well what the fuck is that?

The plots are rubbish too Mundays, I can't believe you think they're comparable to Seinfeld? Me or you or anyone similar could write tish like that, all you do is have two people plan a date and then think of a vaguely unpredictable way to end it - have them both trying to cancel on each other because of mates' advice but they end up going anyway 'by mistake', have an hilarious encounter where the bloke cancels in favour of another blind date who is the original date's mum/sister, or some other wacky shit like that.

...Well what the fuck is that?

Honestly gazzy if you want to change my mind twice in the same week you are going to have to use genuine examples of scenes and plots rather than just making up your own suitably poor ones. Tut.

[gazzyk1ns]

That first one actually happened, without the word "fuck" and possibly "bum". In a stationary cupboard, remember? With the kerr-rrazeee guy who does and says kerazeeee things, and a work colleague who looked twice his age. Then it happened again in a different setting. It also happened the next week, with a different girl, when the above one was away on business. I've seen that acronym thing happen loads too, at least once in each series, was there not an acronym for what happens when you do something like laugh at a funeral?

[Mister Six]

Moffat's best comedy series is still Press Gang, a kids' show which - because he can't fall back on sex humour and the like - is a thousand times more mature than anything else he's done. You really should buy the DVD. Even my dad likes it.

Coupling tends to be shit for the first ten minutes then great as everything snowballs and all the gags that have been set up in the first half come roaring down in the second. Can't help but feel that Moffat's playing it safe after the Chalk debacle though; many of the jokes are fairly obvious observational comedy routines spouted through the mouths of the characters (hence the "Oh that's X" scenes).

Chalk was a great series with some top lines ("Mr. Slatt, have you disabled students in this school?" "Well yes, but it was them or me...") let down by hideous overacting. The second series was far better as the cast toned it down a bit, the obvious "sensible female" character developed neuroses of her own and Slatt became more sympathetic. Shame it didn't come back for another series.

Interestingly, it was set in the same "universe" as Press Gang and even featured a couple of the same characters.

[Munday's Chylde]

That first one actually happened, without the word "fuck" and possibly "bum". In a stationary cupboard, remember? With the kerr-rrazeee guy who does and says kerazeeee things, and a work colleague who looked twice his age.

Yes I remember the stationary cupboard incident. It was another of those scenes that played with the structure. The story of what happened in the stationary cupboard is being told by both geoff and the woman to different parties and we keep flashing back and forth to the incident to see it from each others point of view. We see the scene three times in total, first off from the womans point of view where she imagines what would have happened if she'd kissed him (He tells her it was a silly thing to do, tells her she should have brushed her teeth, tells her she tastes of lasagne and walks out, laughs with his colleagues about her and leaves her stood crying in the cupboard)... We then see it a second time from Geoffs point of view where he imagines what would have happened if he kissed her (She screams, he is arrested, taken off by the police, stipped naked in a cell and then his mother comes in and chops his penis off with a small gilloutine.) Then finally we see it a third time with what really happens:

[They lean towards each other like they are going to kiss]

WOMAN: I better just...
KERRAZZY GUY: Yes of course
WOMAN: better be going
KERAZZY GUY: sure... yes... let me just...

[he opens the door wide for her]

WOMAN: well bye then
KERAZZY GUY: bye
WOMAN: bye

[He closes the door, leans agains the wall and goes all dreamy.]

[The door slowly opens and the women leans back in.]

WOMAN: ...Um...

[he jumps]

KERAZZY GUY: Oh...
WOMAN: ...Didnt you want to come out of the cupbaord too?
KERAZZY GUY: ...No... I thought I might... stay for a bit... wouldn't want to... rush it.
WOMAN: Oh. Okay... Bye.
MAN: Bye.

[Slightly confused she leaves again and closes the door behind her.]

So it isn't strictly how you chose to recall it.

I've seen that acronym thing happen loads too, at least once in each series, was there not an acronym for what happens when you do something like laugh at a funeral?

They describe a process known as 'the giggle loop' where a single thought pops into your head at an inapropriate moment and builds and builds on itself growing larger and more sillier until you eventually let loose a giggle. In the course of that episode we watch them all eventually fall fowl of it.

[gazzyk1ns]

Oh yeah "the giggle loop", it wasn't an acronym but it still began with one of those scenes that was cringeworthily slow and painful to watch, like:

Kerrazy guy: ...the giggle loop.

Rest of them: [puzzled expressions] "The giggle loop?"

Kerazaay guy: "Yes, the giggle loop!"

Rest of them: "What's that then?"

Kerayzii guy: "well, ..."


Arrrgh! Yes hilarous, you've got a little name for something we all know happens in real life from time to time, tell us what it is and get on with things... I can't stand it.

[neveragain]

Those scenes are a bit tedious but apart from that ('and the fire in my hat' as dear old Spike used to say) and the crap dialogue, most of which takes place in those scenes, Coupling is largely alright. Well, largely okay-ish. Dialogue is at times exceptionally cliched but most of the funny lines are amusing. Sarah Alexander and the black-haired 'dotty' one are a bit crap acting-wise, which is a shame for Sarah because she has been very good in some things. The plots, however, are for the most part very clever. Watch the upcoming one with loads of Spiderman references in it for proof - there's one weak scene but doo-dee-doo...

'Chalk' was brilliant as I remember it. Well, largely brilliant-ish. I remember it would come on after episodes of 'Men Behaving Badly' and that  there was one teacher who just sat in the corner of the staff room and swore - which I thought was a bit of a rip-off of a Father Ted figure of fun. Also, vague memories of the head tricking a blind man (in some way), handing a pupil back his pet rabbit in a very motionless sack, going to sit in his 'naughty cupboard'  and being stuck in front of a classroom - behind a concealing desk - completely naked from the waist down. I also remember a rather thick character pondering on whether the 'sensible woman' had had sex with so-and-so-whoever then going on to explain that people looked different after they'd done it - cue the entrance of woman, dressed like a whore. 'Nah, it mustn't work on women.' Funnier when you were watching it.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

I'm sort of on Munday's side with this - I think Moffat is trying to do something different, it may be a little tricksy and contrived, but it is amusing most of the time.

It does suffer somewhat because of the quality of the acting - I'm not sure if Jack Davenport is wooden, or whether his character is supposed to be like that (in which case he's doing a damn good job).

Jeff (Geoff?) is the saviour of the show, although I think Moffat realises this too, and seems to be relying on him for the bulk of the laughs.  

It usually has some decent guest totty in each episode too.

[Manford Thirty-Sixborough]

Well, bollocks, I like Coupling as well, as it has that rare ability to make me laugh out loud. Its main comedy weapon is that old standby of embarassment, which it uses very well. I don't care that the protagonists are all alleged "Beutiful people" - I'm not gay, which rules out the men, and, though Sarah Alexander is candy for the eyes, the other women just seem superficial and artificial. The show, therefore, wins my acclaim purely on the grounds that it's funny.

I also loved Chalk, despite the fact that Nicola Walker irritates me.

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Can't really say much about Press Gang as I've never seen it, but Moffatt has always done farce. People tring to have sex, being caught having sex, dead bodies being hidden, concealed nudity, lots of misunderstandings etc. Joking Apart used a falied marriage as the anchor for all this over the top stuff, and somehow managed to be quite good.

It's been a while since I've seen Chalk, but it was more of the same, but set in a school. It was treated rather unfairly - as someone says above, if it was on BBC2 it would have been largely ignored by the critics.

Coupling does the same high-farce, gosh-you-can-see-my-willy, oh no!-don't-go-in-there stuff, but it is very cynical and tricksy. Six beautiful young people who hang around in a wine bar thing, with lots of 'relationship' humour? Hmm. It's let down by lots of wooden acting and far, far too much smug "All men have wanted to do since the dawn of time is look at women's arses" speeches, men and women are different but not that different-type nonsense. I'm not surprised the Beeb tried to flog it to America (who then had trouble with all the rude bits) as it's a hideous mish-mash of both British and American styles.

[Mister Six]

Press Gang rarely (never, from what I can remember, but I want ot leave some wriggle room) used farce.

BUY THE PRESS GANG DVD, DAMN ALL YOUR EYES! IT'S GREAT!

[gazzyk1ns]

Coupling does the same high-farce, gosh-you-can-see-my-willy, oh no!-don't-go-in-there stuff, but it is very cynical and tricksy. Six beautiful young people who hang around in a wine bar thing, with lots of 'relationship' humour? Hmm. It's let down by lots of wooden acting and far, far too much smug "All men have wanted to do since the dawn of time is look at women's arses" speeches,

Haha yes, "There it was, her arse... like a work of art, god's most magnificent creation, wiggling before me like two small footballs in a tight sack..." etc etc, it's so cringeworthy... Men Behaving Badly did it better, more casually, with MUCH less of a cringe factor, a long time ago.

[Peking O]

Coupling does the same high-farce, gosh-you-can-see-my-willy, oh no!-don't-go-in-there stuff, but it is very cynical and tricksy. Six beautiful young people who hang around in a wine bar thing, with lots of 'relationship' humour? Hmm. It's let down by lots of wooden acting and far, far too much smug "All men have wanted to do since the dawn of time is look at women's arses" speeches, men and women are different but not that different-type nonsense.

Yep, that's the basic premise of the show. Never thought the acting was wooden though, maybe because I'm too busy laughing. Yep, I like it too, it's not pushing any boundaries or anything like that but it makes me titter. The 'smug' speeches as outlined above are usually uttered by the men, who are subsequently made to look like fools in most of the episodes. It's their smugness that's being attacked throughout.

[benthalo]

Press Gang rarely (never, from what I can remember, but I want ot leave some wriggle room) used farce.

You're largely right, but Windfall in series 5 is pure farce, and brilliant with it. The psychic episode in one of the middle series fits the brief too. That last series really didn't belong in a children's slot. The show had long since transcended its origins by then.

Joking Apart is one of the finest farces I know. Usually people get carried away with structure and forget good jokes, but he struck just the right balance with great originality.

Chalk was alright, but I've never been mad on anything he's done in the last ten years. I thought his Murder Most Horrids were nothing special either. And The Office for ITV stank to high heaven, but he readily admits that.

[gazzyk1ns]

Oh jesus, Moffat did Murder Most Horrid too? They were appalling, although you could convince me that Dawn French alone made them so cringeworthy.

Any more abominations that this guy has churned out?

Press Gang - when, and where was it on? By "when" I mean what year(s) and what time of day.

[Mister Six]

1989-1993, Children's ITV. Probably the later, "older" slots that would otherwise be taken up by Children's Ward or whatever. Tonnes smarter than most childrens' - or adults' - shows today.

"So she looks at the logo I've just drawn and says 'what about the 'z' in Gazette?' and I say 'What about it?' and she says 'There should be one.'"

Murder Most Horrid was actually pretty good sometimes (Overkill, for example, where French plays an innocent halfwit who is blackmailed into killing hundreds of people), though the last series curled up and died towards the end as it became more and more obvious that the writer(s?) had run out of gags. Especially that one about the lesbian teacher.

[Jemble Fred]

Of the 18 or so Murder Most Horrids, at least 15 were very very good, and 6 or 7 are absolutely classic TV - also well ahead of their time, not bothering with a laughter track when live-recorded comedy half hours really were the norm. The casts were awesome, and at their best (usually when Hislop & Newman were writing) they were perfect 30 minute comedy playlets.

This isn't false memory, but the way, I've watched all of them this year. Particular classics are the Masons opener, the Time Travelling one with Jim Broadbent, and the 'Mousetrap' pisstake.

Also, there aren't many comedy writers in this country to touch Moffat, his plotting, along with Le Frenais & Clement and John Sullivan, is ideal for teaching creative writing, they're unbeatable. Some of the story arcs in Coupling are fit to stand alongside masterpieces like 'Pardon Me', from Porridge, and, er.. the gold chains episode in OFAH.

I'd maim to see Joking Apart again, as I only really recall fancying the blonde in it something rotten. Although Robert Bathurst was an extremely unconvincing stand-up.

[gazzyk1ns]

I can't work out why I (to my knowledge) never saw Press Gang, I would have been 8-12 years old when it was on. I watched CITV loads too. My memories of that kind of slot were Children's ward and that American burger bar shite, Spatz I think? Knightmare was a favourite too, that must have been on roughly the same years as well? And the very early Mike and Angelo episodes maybe? They were a bit newer I think?

Edit: And Woof!, although I remember that going on and on for years afterwards and changing just about every character.

[Mister Six]

Spatz I only recall being on sometime Saturday mornings. It was indeed shite, but it did have the ginner lass who was in the superb Taking Over the Asylum (in TOTA  one she was the manic depressive who falls in love the chubby Scots DJ).

Knightmare is still being shown on Challenge TV. Me and my mates were accepted onto it only for the bastards to cancel it before we got a chance to get on the telly. Gutted.

Of Mike and Angelo I can only remember the later episodes, which were utter shit and jettisoned Angelo being an alien in favour of Angelo being an utter spaz who flailed around "wackily" like a tosser. And they shot through about six different Mikes, including a girl and an American. Utter toss.

Woof at least had a good reason for changing the cast, since it was the lad's quilt that was changing him into a dog (did they ever explain why?) so it could just be passed from person to person.

Spangles, eh? And those Clangers. Mmm.

[benthalo]

Of Murder Most Horrid, Moffat did Overkill, Dying Live and Elvis, Jesus & Jack. Of the first, I'll retract my comment about all of them being dull because I didn't realise he'd written it until thirty seconds ago.

Loved the first two series - We All Hate Granny and A Determined Woman especially.

Jemfred - I'll trade you Joking Apart in full for the whole of series one.

[Goldentony]

spatz was fucking brilliant

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

According to http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0595590/  he's one of the writers for the new Doctor Who series.

[Art Vandelay]

I thought joking apart was really good. Come on BBC even a bare bones DVD release would be nice.

[Alberon]

Of the 18 or so Murder Most Horrids, at least 15 were very very good, and 6 or 7 are absolutely classic TV - also well ahead of their time, not bothering with a laughter track when live-recorded comedy half hours really were the norm. The casts were awesome, and at their best (usually when Hislop & Newman were writing) they were perfect 30 minute comedy playlets.

This isn't false memory, but the way, I've watched all of them this year. Particular classics are the Masons opener, the Time Travelling one with Jim Broadbent, and the 'Mousetrap' pisstake.

The Time Travelling one was partly filmed at the university department I work at. All the scenes set in the lab French gets fired from and which she steals stuff from as well as the bits as she leaves the labs. The bit where she cycles away is a bit odd as she goes off in one direction and the next shot sees her heading back the other way going around the building she just left back to the entrance (though it's only confusing if you know the layout).

Almost everything piled on the benches was borrowed from elsewhere in the department (apart from the time travel plot thing). Most of it is still in use. It was all filmed one saturday so I never got to see them in action. Though I have seen local news camera crews who are always dropping by to do some interview with one of the doctors and dot TV (shortly before it shut down) filmed some linking shots for one of its shows. Our bosses weren't on the ball with that one and they managed to get the use of one of the teaching labs for an afternoon without paying a penny.

[Jemble Fred]

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but I do love that MMH episode especially, one of Jim Broadbent's finest hours, fuck all these Hollywood movies. One of the most pitiful characters in any televisual half hour. In the MMH stakes it's second only to the Mousetrap piss-take when Tony Slattery buys the ranch. Early nineties comedy really was a golden age for me, personally.

I would do a swap with them, but I don't have the vid with me, and it's an awful 2nd generation copy. If you're still desperate I can try, but....