Suggestions Thread

[Small Man Big Horse]

This is just a suggestion, and it might be a really rubbish one, so please feel free to ignore it - but how about making two separate forums out of GB - one being a personal issues / chatty one (because I've found on other forums they're quite successful and help people feel more of a community) and one for the fun / creative / silly threads?

I know the more personal one wouldn't be a forum for everyone, but then a lot of people might like it a lot, and it'd free up GB to be more of what you were hoping it might be?

Sorry if this is nonsense though, or not what you were thinking along the lines of at all, I just thought it might be a vaguely okay idea. And can I just add my name to the list of those who do really appreciate what you've done for the site, and would hate to see it all come to an end. Though I think we'd all understand if you do feel you've just had enough of it.

[Artemis]

It's fine for you to blame me though? ....... I think you've put rather a lot of words into my mouth there.  You're responding to things I never actually said.  

I'm not blaming anyone. I haven't started any threads about how 'bad' things are because I don't think I'm finding it quite as bad as you are. The impression I got from your post is that you're not satisfied with the forum. You made specific references to particular threads and a hope for some "decent new posters" to sign up, implying the current ones are directly connected to your dissatisfaction. I apologise if I've interpreted what you meant wrong, but that's how it comes across from what you wrote, and that's what I'm responding to.

Have you any idea how much shit I'd have to take from people?  Look at how offended you are at just the suggestion that things could be better than they currently are!

What?! I'm not offended at all. Hey - it's your forum, you're entitled to feel any way you like about it. My only problem in what you said was that you appeared to be openly criticising the current posters, while as a moderator you have a very hands-off approach. I think that if you want a forum more tailored to your interests, which is where you seemed to be going in what you were saying, you'd do better then to expect the rest of us to somehow intuitively know what would interest you. If you're going to allow people to post, within reason, what they like while providing the vaguest of forum descriptions and no clear guidelines, you're going to have to accept whatever results from that.

I know you (or whoever would moderate) would get a lot of flack for subjectively getting rid of shitty threads, but if the forums had clearer stipulations on the kind of thing they're designed for, all you'd be doing is enforcing your own direction. Within a short while, the very few people who haven't got it quite right would soon get the point and (hopefully) give more thought to the quality of their threads. One suggestion would be to start a thread relating to exactly the kind of thing that should be written underneath each forum title.

Whenever topics relating to suggestions for improvements of this site come around, it's always in danger of descending into some kind of blame game, and I'm really not interested in that at all. I think this is a great forum and I'm happy it's around. The fact I'm pointing out ways I feel it could be improved doesn't mean I don't think it's good as it is, so don't take it personally, dude.

[Cardinal Tit Storm]

My suggestion would be to break it down something like this:

Comedy Chat
General Bullshit
TV and Movies
Computers and Games
Current Affairs (news, religion, and politics)
Music
Art and Literature (or maybe a combined "The Arts" forum including music)

I think that's a manageable number of sub-forums. Maybe Sport or something, if you're into that. General Discussion is a bit directionless currently, and combining the arty shit and mongs with General Bullshit doesn't make sense to me (not if you want to encourage it, at least).

I wonder if I'm alone in being someone who posts on here a bit who isn't really that interested in either Chris Morris or comedy in general.

Nope. It was Blue Jam that brought me here, and whilst I still love that I have very little interest in comedy otherwise, especially the TV kind. My comedy consumption is so low I often feel I have no right to be posting here, actually.

[Eight Taiwanese Teenagers]

Less forums, not more!

[Neil]

You made specific references to particular threads and a hope for some "decent new posters" to sign up, implying the current ones are directly connected to your dissatisfaction. I apologise if I've interpreted what you meant wrong, but that's how it comes across from what you wrote, and that's what I'm responding to.

OK, I've phrased that badly, apologies.  What I mean is that 25 or 30 (maybe more) mostly long-time posters (including those who'd been here from the start or thereabouts) jumped ship, and that affected the tone of this place.  So it is a matter of waiting for new posters (hopefully arround my age) to emerge and the forum dynamics to realign.  I'm not dissing everyone here, but I spent 7 years building and shaping a forum, and it will take a while for it to get back to a state where I'm happy with it.  Maybe it never will, maybe it's just not for me now.  

I appreciate the suggestions given.  I do think some rejigging of the forum layout is needed, the same way it was with GD a while back, as the mix that made GD just wasn't there any more due to various reasons.

[Funcrusher]

Less forums, not more!

I dunno. I can see the logic of separating out computer games and current affairs for those that aren't into it, and forums for movies and art/literature could encourage more discussion of those than there is currently - don't know if that would make for a more interesting board for others, but it might appeal to me.

[slim]

I don't post here much any more (much to the relief of some of you, I expect) and it's true to say I don't find a lot of what is posted interesting, but then that's always been the case so it's really not much different now. Maybe by a few percent.

Anyway, my point is I wonder if you're just suffering interest fatigue as I am. The fact is that in the real world there are few people I find interesting enough to listen to on a regular basis. I'm fussy about my friends because most people I encounter bore me (which is a subtly different statement to saying they are boring, I hope you'll note) or irritate me. This site has a disproportionate amount of intelligent and funny people, mainly due to the original subject matter I would assume (Cook and Morris I mean) but maybe even that wears thin after a while.

If you think that of the x000 posters on here, only a small percent post regularly and a smaller percentage of those are people with whom you'd be compatible for, say, a chat in the pub, there's no reason to presume that, even with all the opinion and fact being put in every day, this place is any different to other social interactions. Apart from some rules changing with anonymity and physical & emotional distance, of course.

So, no offence to the people here in particular, although some are missing that I enjoyed reading, but maybe you're just disinterested at the moment as I am. I find it quite odd that I've swung from having to take a break from here to stop me being angry at the ether... to being so detached.


Edit: Oh, and I have less time on my hands now too.

[Artemis]

I can also see the benefit of creating perhaps one more sub-forum, given that half of what's in 'General Discussion' is anything but general; it's actually quite specific, be it specific computer games or television programmes or whatever.

My thinking would see the forum separated as follows:

- General Discussion (e.g. state of world affairs)
- General Bullshit (more personal reflections and observations)
- Creatives (a place for writers, poets, artists, mongers etc. to showcase and discuss their work)
- Specific Forums (with sub-sections comprising of Comedy Central, Stereo Excursions, TV Shows and Other specific crap)

Basically, if you've got something specific you want to discuss, there's now a place to do so outside of GD, which will hopefully bring GD back to life. The practical demotion of CC and SE as sub-sections within a larger forum would reflect their diminished place both in focus of discussion and focus of central interest. A forum specific to creative types will help to pro-actively encourage some original work, be it literary, musical, comedic or whatever. There's obvioiusly some talented people scattered about, and a positive area will help encourage newcomers who have something to contribute.

[Funcrusher]

Anyway, my point is I wonder if you're just suffering interest fatigue as I am. The fact is that in the real world there are few people I find interesting enough to listen to on a regular basis. I'm fussy about my friends because most people I encounter bore me (which is a subtly different statement to saying they are boring, I hope you'll note) or irritate me.

Yeah, I can relate to that. I'm currently finding myself in a phase where I don't seek out the company of others due to lack of interest and concentrate on doing a bit of creative stuff for myself. Better as a topic for another  thread rather than derailing this one though, I guess.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

How about this set-up:

Have one "Current Affairs" forum where new posts can be created - this can be any non-comedy chat topic, but it can cover anything whether it's music, football, Doctor Who, personal hell etc; but as soon as it hits a certain length - e.g. 5 pages, 10 pages or whatever, it gets automatically moved to a Old Chestnuts" forum - however you may still post to the Chestnuts threads - but may not create new topics.

This should mean that favourite topics can still be continued, whilst new topics have a chance to get going without having to compete with Doctor Who/football/games etc.

[Fry]

I can also see the benefit of creating perhaps one more sub-forum, given that half of what's in 'General Discussion' is anything but general; it's actually quite specific, be it specific computer games or television programmes or whatever.

My thinking would see the forum separated as follows:

- General Discussion (e.g. state of world affairs)
- General Bullshit (more personal reflections and observations)
- Creatives (a place for writers, poets, artists, mongers etc. to showcase and discuss their work)
- Specific Forums (with sub-sections comprising of Comedy Central, Stereo Excursions, TV Shows and Other specific crap)

Basically, if you've got something specific you want to discuss, there's now a place to do so outside of GD, which will hopefully bring GD back to life. The practical demotion of CC and SE as sub-sections within a larger forum would reflect their diminished place both in focus of discussion and focus of central interest. A forum specific to creative types will help to pro-actively encourage some original work, be it literary, musical, comedic or whatever. There's obvioiusly some talented people scattered about, and a positive area will help encourage newcomers who have something to contribute.

That seems like good science. It could probably work well.


But then again, what do I know?


Not alot

[biniput]

From my own personal point of view is that now the community is better but the tone and topics of conversation is different.  In the past the forum suffered badly with the problem that a lot of forums do in that ALL the threads and the forum seemed to be there for a few people and the rest chipped in.  After the Clique went i found it opened up much more and became more diverse.  Also if you are bored with it there is no reason why someone else cannot buy out or run this site as it, to me, is such an institution.  It is the best forum out there and needs to stick around almost for the sake of it. Don't let the clique feel like they won.

[chocky909]

From my own personal point of view is that now the community is better but the tone and topics of conversation is different.  In the past the forum suffered badly with the problem that a lot of forums do in that ALL the threads and the forum seemed to be there for a few people and the rest chipped in.  After the Clique went i found it opened up much more and became more diverse.  Also if you are bored with it there is no reason why someone else cannot buy out or run this site as it, to me, is such an institution.  It is the best forum out there and needs to stick around almost for the sake of it. Don't let the clique feel like they won.

My sentiments exactly. I've noticed a change in tone too and I think it's for the best. I know very little about what happened (I'm surprised by the number of members involved) as I only used to check in here periodically until recently when I've been posting more frequently.

I'd actually love to hear more details on what happened and who the specific members were but I doubt it'd be sensible to drag it all up again.

I'm sure it'll be a while before new members become active but it's more likely in this current environment than the last, in my opinion at least.

[Mr. Analytical]

The picture threads are never off the first page because people are currently going through a perod of being more open and being able to talk about themselves and their lives in a way that would never have been possible while the Clique were still around.  Rather than being quite an intimidating place where you have to watch what you say, CAB has become more open and friendly and people are responding to that.  I think the change is positive.

The reason why Up Your Arts died is because the community of people that did loads of monging has disbanded, partly because they were poached by Frink and partly through erosion and membership churn.  Some people see this as an unmitigated disaster, I frankly don't give a shit.  Yes, yes... it's all very clever knowing how to use photoshop but while I the efforts invariably provoke the odd smile, I don't think that the loss of a that kind of thread is anything to cry about or to warrant wholesale social engineering.


As a comparatively recent arrival, it's hard not to take this kind of moan personally, especially when it's seemingly universal from all the old members.

[slim]

I think one of the things that hampers maintaining interest in forums is lacking the visual and physical prompts to memory. As it is on here for me to attach a kind of persona or image of someone it takes one or more of a few things; a noticeable user name, a strongly identifiable prose style, being significantly funnier than your average person or through some kind of significant personal interaction (be that at a meet or via many differing threads), positive or negative.

Without any of those, a lot of posters become a kind of faceless... hmmm, no, not faceless... shapeless entity. Relating that back to real life, they might be friends of friends or acquaintances, people who I don't seek out for opinion but from whom I'll hear it anyway.

The point of me beating this tenuous path is that without clear links, especially positive ones, there's nothing that keeps you coming back to them. Although forums are a community, threads start, or are traversed, not only through discussion but though one person putting something out there (ugh) and a series of people responding. The conversation might end up being carried out multiple ways, but usually I find (maybe you don't) that it's one particular point of view I either find nteresting or am in opposition to. That motivates me to post.

If a thread is lacking a topic of interest to you, then you're not going to be stimulated. Equally if it doesn't hold a point of view or information that incenses you or instigates some kind of furious nodding, you're less likely to be stimulated. If that's coupled with a lack of identifiable people discussing the topic at hand, you're going to be even less stimulated.

I guess I'm trying to say that it's not necessarily the people at fault, although maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and it is, but it might be just that some people have had their conversations with their identifiable people. They've done the teenage "what's out there" and "what comes next" with those of the people we have here that stimulate them, they've done the political position, the religious debate, the profound and the interesting. After that, what's left? Pop culture, arts, current affairs... and then what if you're not stimulated by the range of topics that are knocking about in those categories... even less interest.

There's a reason not all friendships last through life - some people just don't have the commonality between them to maintain it after that initial buzz of finding out another person's views on things you consider important. I'm exploring this from my point of view but maybe that's also the reason others have felt the same lack of interest and the apathy that stems from it. Maybe I've just had my time clicking and some fresh blood is needed to keep things ticking over. Perhaps it should be like Logan's Run where we all get killed off after a while.

Meh, I dunno. My body clock's fucked and I've watched enough Louis Theroux. Just trying to seek alternatives to people feeling they're being got at or that it's them personally that aren't considered interesting or of quality.

Then again, maybe you're all shit. Every last one of you, and me.

[Fielding]

This is just a suggestion, and it might be a really rubbish one, so please feel free to ignore it - but how about making two separate forums out of GB - one being a personal issues / chatty one (because I've found on other forums they're quite successful and help people feel more of a community) and one for the fun / creative / silly threads?

I know the more personal one wouldn't be a forum for everyone, but then a lot of people might like it a lot, and it'd free up GB to be more of what you were hoping it might be?

Sorry if this is nonsense though, or not what you were thinking along the lines of at all, I just thought it might be a vaguely okay idea.

I'd go along with this, especially the idea of having a forum for more personal stuff. I think the forum suffered a bit when the "Nobody Cares about Your Fucking Personal Things" catchphrase came about and it made posters a bit wary about how much they reveal about themselves. I think having a thread where people discuss more personal issues would help in people getting a feel for their fellow VWs a bit more and help in creating a sense of community. Sometimes the staggering realisation that life isn't a plain sailing bed of peaches for every person on the planet...except me, is a comfort.

And can I just add my name to the list of those who do really appreciate what you've done for the site, and would hate to see it all come to an end.

Here Here

[Neil]

The picture threads are never off the first page because people are currently going through a perod of being more open and being able to talk about themselves and their lives in a way that would never have been possible while the Clique were still around.  

Untrue - it's primarily because people love posting pictures of themselves on the internet.  The unfortunate thing is that it came about as a consequence of me asking someone to restart 23 Daves' 'What do you think posters look like' thread from years ago, and scuppered the fun and interest that would have been generated by that thread (again.)

The reason why Up Your Arts died is because the community of people that did loads of monging has disbanded, partly because they were poached by Frink and partly through erosion and membership churn.  

The photoshopping died out long before Frinky cherry-picked what he perceived to be the best (most "clever and creative") posters from here to populate his VW ripoff.  Obviously it didn't help matters though.  To refer back to the start of this post, the only regularly posted-to threads in Vision Mong/Up Your Arts for - I dunno, maybe a year or two - were "post flattering pictures of yourself" and "post unflattering pictures of yourself."  Oh, and 'pets picture thread' or something.

Some people see this as an unmitigated disaster, I frankly don't give a shit.  Yes, yes... it's all very clever knowing how to use photoshop but while I the efforts invariably provoke the odd smile, I don't think that the loss of a that kind of thread is anything to cry about or to warrant wholesale social engineering.

Wholesale social engineering?!  

I like creativitity in general.  I tried to get song covers and stuff going on here, and there were some cracking results.  This is the problem on here now, when you start with a good premise, you will invariably get good results.  But I just don't think there's enough good threads being started.  And as I say, I'm responsible too - and maybe another thing I should be doing is trying to stop them from getting lost, as there's always such a rapid pace here now that most things drop off the front page quickly - I like that, but maybe I should try stickying things for a while or something.  (I always figure people automatically look right past stickys though).

EDIT:  Before people who've posted in the 'what do you look like' thread now inevitably line up to accuse me of having a go at them personally - all I said was it's a shame that GB has now got to the point where the same threads are going to clog up page 1 all the time.  Although I do personally prefer to wonder what people look like.

[rudi]

The problem I've found with the new rush to start threads and split topics is the loss of that ambling, tangential nature to threads so they acted and felt more like a conversation between people rather than a question and answer session that now pervades.

It's still the best forum on the 'net, mind you...

[Sam]

It's still the best forum on the 'net, mind you...

Exactly. I've been on a lot of forums over the years and this one is by far the best. Even at its worst it's still one of the better forums on the net.

[gazzyk1ns]

Neil you do this every so often, probably about once a year, and after enough people say that everything's all right and that VWs is better than 99.9% of internet forums and thank you very much ooh you're so good for doing this, you say "Heh, well, yeah, maybe it's all right, I've got some changes planned though, so hopefully things will be even better soon!".

If you can't be bothered with it any more then jack it in.

For fuck's sake! What will it take? Was it Christmas 2004 when you posted more or less the same thing, for at least the second time, on the Novogate clique? The message where I politely said the above, plus "That's not your style though, is it? That's not what you want." and you said "Thanks for that Gazz, seriously."?

You crave control, which is obviously why you didn't like the fact that SG and Sheepy set up that ProBoard, despite the fact that it was completely reasonable; you'd deleted yours without ANY warning, including all PMs, which contained a lot of details and exchanges which members didn't want to lose. I've had enough now, I did think I could tolerate posting on CaB after all the early 2007 fuss, but it's just not going to be forgotten, is it? CaB went down at least twice earlier in the year, because of your static view regarding CaB's hosting; and the threads concerning that downtime still turned at least partially into "Those clique cunts!!". Just unbelievable.

[Sam]

While I appreciate your viewpoint, I really don't think posts like that are going to help, gazzyk1ns. Being snide is just  going to discoruage Neil even more. I'm not saying we have to suck up to him: I for one am not fawning when I say it's the best forum on the net - it just is, in my humble opinion. What we need is constructive criticism, not angry, barbed posts.

[gazzyk1ns]

The fact that you think that's a snide post speaks volumes. Why would you think that? Why do you think it's not constructive? Your reply reminds me of people saying "Neil, you've behaved like a saint." during the clique fuss.

[Tibetan Singing Bowl]

I think I know where you're coming from Neil (but obviously don't hesitate to tell me if actually I don't have a clue and how I've got it wrong).

A lot of people have moved on for various reasons â€" some of which you probably agree with yourself â€" but you can't move on from here because you have to lock up every night and sweep the floors and make sure there's urinal cakes ready in the lavs, so to speak.

So you grow more and more resentful; both of having to stay and wash up the glasses of guests who are increasingly not on your wavelength and would rather watch Doctor Who or sit looking through piles of snaps of themselves, their pets, or whatever; and resenting the people who've left for other places. Stuck in the middle caretaking a board that you have no interest in anymore, but affronted at whoever went to start something else because your place wasn't good enough for them anymore, because you've worked hard and put the effort into this place.

If it's getting to you that much â€" and it sounds like it is â€" maybe it's time to put the chairs on the tables and turn out the lights.

RE: The Clique:

I wish this exageration and sensationalism that's piled onto that first week of January and that mushrooming of The Clique myth could stop, because frankly, its just bloody childish. It's the handrubbing glee of gathering around the C&B fireplace to tell a little melodrama, isn't it? And "VW Ripoff"? It's not as if C&B is the first, ultimate, or purest manifestation of message boarding, is it? I mean you didn't actually invent the concept of using websites to conduct conversations.

[Neil]

Neil you do this every so often, probably about once a year, and after enough people say that everything's all right and that VWs is better that 99.9% of internet forums and thank you very much ooh you're so good for doing this, you say "Heh, well, yeah, maybe it's all right, I've got some changes planned though, so hopefully things will be even better soon!".

If you can't be bothered with it any more then jack it in.

For fuck's sake! What will it take? Was it Christmas 2004 when you posted more or less the same thing, for at least the second time, on the Novogate clique? The message where I politely said the above, plus "That's not your style though, is it? That's not what you want." and you said "Thanks for that Gazz, seriously."?

Oh here we go again.  Although at least you're having the balls to confront me in public this time, rather than sending me what were quite honestly the  nastiest and most upsetting PM's I've ever received.

As I said to you then, I find it massively hypocritical that you take such umbrage to any mention of the clique.  Where were your objections when the clique spent YEARS dissing this place as a bonding excercise?  Didn't notice you giving off then gaz, odd that eh?  On the subject of hypocricy, I'd also like to highlight the fact that this very post I'm responding to exhorts me to just "jack it in", and then immediately goes on to slap my wrists (AGAIN) for deleting the babylemonade board!  

Also, the clique have barely been mentioned here!  In fact, I even disagreed with Mr. Analytical's suggestion that people were now only posting pics of themselves due to the end of clique oppression.  I'm sure you'll have missed that as you galloped down the page, hurriedly reaching for the reply button so you could have another unreasonably shitty and personal pop at me.  

Are you really surprised I get annoyed at running this forum and site with a nasty little cunt like YOU knocking around?  Do you think YOU make it a pleasant experience?  You were actually a really good bloke up till all that clique nonsense started, at which point you turned into a complete psycho.  I'm still amazed you were down-right STUPID enough to believe the outright lies and rumours you sent me care of The Clique.  

I really and truly don't understand how you think I could run this for 7 years without at any point ever getting dejected and pissed off with it, and then mentioning that publically.  It's not like it happens all the time, and I make a point of not posting personal 'nimmy nim' stuff on here.  But the fact is that I've been bummed out this past few days, and thought that the forum layout still wasn't perfect.  Therefore I go and ask the people who use it on a daily basis to see if they have any suggestions (what with me "craving control and all...)  This was meant to be a constructive thread.  It wasn't angling for 'this place is great' comments, neither did I intend to annoy people and think I was getting at them personally.   But nor was it just another excuse to go on about "those clique cunts", as you put it.  Yes, I'm down at the moment, which others more charitable and less insane than yourself had managed to discern, but I did believe something positive would come out of this.

Sometimes I enjoy doing the site, sometimes I don't.  I'm amazed that's something that needs to be explicitly spelt out.

You crave control, which is obviously why you didn't like the fact that SG and Sheepy set up that ProBoard, despite the fact that it was completely reasonable; you'd deleted yours without ANY warning, including all PMs, which contained a lot of details and exchanges which members didn't want to lose.

I didn't like it because I saw at that point where it was headed, and was proven absolutely right.  I also didn't like the fact that it was being promoted as a "CaB backup board", it was no such thing. In fact, PT almost shit himself with rage when someone asked if it would be ok for the url for this "CaB backup board" to be posted on CaB itself!  Noone bothered to ask for my permission about whether they could set up a new "CaB backup board", noone gave me any kind of mod status over it, and it was categorically not what I wanted.  I was unaware it had anything to do with Sheepy, as far as I was concerned it was just something SurferGhost set up because (a) he's an insecure prick who needs to be in a gang and (b) he REALLY loved sticking the knife in people's backs and didn't have the balls to confront them directly.  Also, the whole 'backup board' thing had drifted away from the original intention - which was to provide somewhere for EVERYONE to go when the site was down, not just the lucky/bored few who had kept the url while it was still posted publically.  I also reacted very badly due to Tracey dissing me being the first thing I saw when I got on there.  Probably told you that before, too, but as you're out for a public shit-flinging contest...  That was a pretty good example of how the dynamics were changing - prior to that point me and Tracey had NEVER had a bad word to say to each other, and I'd helped her out of some very tricky situations.  I would also turn a blind eye when she'd routinely try and chase away any new posters with obviously female names.  But once she became The Queen(ie) Of The Clique, she turned into a right little madam.

As to Novogate, shortly before it was taken down, Yearly had started a thread indicating that he too saw that the clique was going to have a detrimental effect on CaB.  I'd voiced many many concerns about the bitching going on etc, so really, the writing was on the wall. As it goes, I didn't plan to pull it down that night, it was a direct consequence of Tracey and Weekender being such conceited arsey fuckers.  But me pulling it was clearly brewing - and frankly it sholdn't have had any repercussions because it was meant to be a back-up board!

But you already know all this, because I already told you via PM when you had your last shit-fit.  Interesting that, isn't it?  

Trying to lay a guilt trip on me is actually pretty goddamn futile when I'm already well aware of how quickly that lot turned on me.  You mean I offended these people who were specifically asked to go behind my back and showed no respect or appreciation for the amount of time I'd spent running a forum for them over the last 7 years?!  CRIVENS!  How bad do I feel now!?!!   I'm soooo sorry for inconveniencing a buinch of people who spread malicious lies about me, if only I'd known!!!

I've had enough now, I did think I could tolerate posting on CaB after all the early 2007 fuss, but it's just not going to be forgotten, is it? CaB went down at least twice earlier in the year, because of Neil's static view regarding hosting, and the threads concerning that downtime still turned at least partially into "Those clique cunts!!". Just unbelievable.

Just a few days ago I actually said it was something we should try and stop going on about, in fact.  I think, really, you're acting like a completely irrational dickhead here, and reacting to stuff which was simply not posted.  Leave if you want, I'd be glad not to have to deal with this kind of petulant badly-written rage from you anymore.  And I don't want to get into a back-and-forth rally with you now.  That whole clique stuff is a part of the history of this site and forum, so there's no point in you going nuclear and sending me astonishingly nasty PM's every time it gets mentioned.  I'll ask again: Where were your objections when the clique were going on and on about this place - FOR ABOUT TWO OR THREE YEARS?  Takes more balls to confront a group than it does to confront one single person eh, you fucking crowd-following coward?  

I'd actually love to hear more details on what happened and who the specific members were but I doubt it'd be sensible to drag it all up again.

I made a point of not replying to this earlier.  Wasted my time there, eh.  See this post for a pretty good explanation.  You'll forgive me if I don't currently feel like digging out the long and very fair timeline I wrote up during the nimmy thread.  Really though, that post is a pretty good starting place, and an excellent example of the sort of playground politics that occur when communities reach a certain size.  

And "VW Ripoff"? Its not as if C&B is the first, ultimate, or purest manifestation of message boarding, is it? I mean you didn't actually invent the concept of using websites to conduct conversations.

Sure, but it's a forum styled directly after the fetishised 'golden age' of VW, populated entirely by VW and ex-VW members, run by an ex-VW who jokes about installing the old VW skin to make it look just like VW when VW was great.  Etc.  So I think the term rip-off is a fair one, really.  Plus I just don't buy the reasons he gave for starting it up, it was always clearly just going to be a direct copy (better word, perhaps) of VW as he knew there were posters from here who had got into the habit of having a clique where they could bash this place.

[Tibetan Singing Bowl]

So I think the term rip-off is a fair one, really.

Yes, I know you do, but I don't, because your assertions aren't accurate.

[gazzyk1ns]

Are you really surprised I get annoyed at running this forum and site with a nasty little cunt like YOU knocking around?  Do you think YOU make it a pleasant experience?  You were actually a really good bloke up till all that clique nonsense started, at which point you turned into a complete psycho.

Fucking hell!

But you already know all this, because I already told you via PM when you had your last shit-fit. Interesting that, isn't it?

You can post those here and let people judge for themselves if you want. I've still got the entire exchange, if you haven't.

[Neil]

Yes, I know you do, but I don't, because your assertions aren't accurate.

No I've been in it, they definitely are.  It's just a slice of these forums - without this place he woudln't have had any of those posters or that forum at all.  As I understand it, he did this before with another forums userbase.

[gazzyk1ns]

I've edited^

And also:

And I don't want to get into a back-and-forth rally with you now. That whole clique stuff is a part of the history of this site and forum, so there's no point in you going nuclear and sending me astonishingly nasty PM's every time it gets mentioned.

You're actually mad. I've had that one PM exchange with you.

Well, that one where I'm not offering to send you things and indeed following through with it.

[Tibetan Singing Bowl]

No I've been in it…

Me too!

…without this place he woudln't have had any of those posters or that forum at all. As I understand it, he did this before with another forums userbase.

Where's the bit in the C&B rules regarding where we're allowed to post and who we're allowed to post with?

[Neil]

Where's the bit in the C&B rules regarding where we're allowed to post and who we're allowed to post with?

I've no idea how that relates to what I've said.  I was just justifying my use of the term, it's not a big deal nor a particularly interesting tangent.  Although, actually, I do think it's interesting he has to poach userbases.  It just amused me, I mean, if he's "clever and creative" then why not actually create instead of just taking?