It is not an historic occasion.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It is a historic occasion, unless you pronounce 'historic' 'istoric' to produce a vowel sound. But why would you do that, eh, eh? And most news presenters pronounce the full 'h' sound rendering their grammar BENT AND USELESS. Grrrrr...

So in future, check whether you're making a vowel sound before sloppily placing 'an' in front of a word beginning with a 'h' or you might make the annual meeting of pedants and neurotics descend into a riot.

[Funcrusher]

Isn't it meant to be "an historic occasion" because you would say "an occasion" rather than "a occasion"? Maybe I'm wrong...

[mook]

...


Opps wrong thread.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Isn't it meant to be "an historic occasion" because you would say "an occasion" rather than "a occasion"? Maybe I'm wrong...

You chose 'a' or 'an' based on the word coming directly after.

Occasion is an irrelevant word. <-By your logic that sentence should read, Occasion is a irrelevant word, which makes no grammatical sense.

It could be 'it is a historic cheese/event/goat/sex olympics/anything.'

[Funcrusher]

Ah, good, I use a/an in that way myself, but was never sure if it was right. My Chambers Desktop Grammer says "some speakers prefer to use an in front of words beginning with 'h' ". So it's apparently accepted, but there's no real reason for it. So I'll carry on not bothering with it.

[Funcrusher]

Double post

[Ciarán2]

Every occasion is a(n) historic occasion.

[mothman]

"In 'ertford, 'ereford and 'ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly HEVER 'appen!"

[Nik Drou]

Ah, interesting that someone brought this up.  This has been bugging me for quite some time too.  I was taught at school that 'an' precedes a word that begins with a vowel sound. e.g An album, an eggplant, an Italian Restaurant.  This makes sense from a purely aesthetic standpoint, as otherwise you'd end up with the staccato 'a album' that makes you sound like you stutter.

With 'h-words', I always assumed that using 'an' before them is due to people softening the h-sound (an 'ospital) when speaking, and so was still grammatically incorrect.  However, it's come to my attention (partially from Kelsey Grammer on the Simpsons Season 8 commentary) that using 'an' before h-words is quite correct, providing you pronounce the 'h'.  It's seen as a little pretensious to do so (think Graham Chapman dangling in mid-air saying "Oh, yes, an hoop!"), but it's so widespread that it's really down to personal preference.

So now you know.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I think when someone pronounces the 'h' sound after an it makes them sound idiotic, like they have no idea how to form a decent sentence. It is especially annoying when newsreaders do it, as they invariably pronounce the full 'h' sound.

I can't ever be satisfied with it, which is the main reason for posting it. It just stands out every single time it's used. Plus due to every fucking news story in the world being 'an historic occasion' these days I have to endure it almost every day.

[MojoJojo]

Isn't it to do with glottal stops?

[mothman]

That should be the title of Lily Allen's next album.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

By all means spout 'an 'istoric' until something 'istoric actually 'appens. But don't try pulling any of that other shit.

[ziggy starbucks]

although ironically, the letter H should be pronounced 'aitch and not haitch

[iain]

Oh man, I nearly lost a good friend arguing about this. He said 'a historic' sounded retarded.......the same guy later insisted wine gums were wine flavoured.  I found the story behind why they were named 'wine' gums and he was furious. It's sometimes best to just leave people with their own little nuances I've learnt!

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

This is worse than that, it's like we're being taught bad grammar through the sloppy and obnoxious tones of news broadcasting. Invasion of the grammar-snatchers.

[SetToStun]

I was always told that "an 'otel" and "an 'istoric" were sort-of OK (they're bastardised Francophone affectations, basically) in as much as they were accepted, rather than right, but that "an hotel"/"an historic" were just every flavour of wrong.  It's a vowel sound thing and nothing more.

Personally, people who do the "an 'otel" thing wind me up. they don't do the same for hospital, (well, unless they're Mockney gits, of course) so there's no need to make a point of doing it for two other French-based words.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It looks just as bad in print as well.

[Clone Army]

Tangent: When the hell did "Contraversey" become a word? Apart from its objectionable overuse in the news, it feels like falling over a brick mid-sentence.

This is probably a scones/scones type thing but then again I don't have to contend with daily reports on the state of cakey breads.

Once again: "con-TROV-ersy"

[JesusAndYourBush]

This is worse than that, it's like we're being taught bad grammar through the sloppy and obnoxious tones of news broadcasting. Invasion of the grammar-snatchers.

Ah yes, news broadcasters, also responsible for pronouncing vulnerable as vunerable, stupid twits.

[Bingo Fury]

Total agreement, Shoulders. It's an archaic throwback which no longer has any relevance, but is still trotted out as "proper" English. It's bugged me for years. As has Dryden, who (so I was told at University) decreed that in order to be a proper language, English should follow Latin grammar, thus introducing novel and pointless rules like never splitting infinitives and using a different future tense for every day of the week. But newsreaders are probably worse.

[TotalMink]

Thanks for this, I have always wondered about people using "an" in front of historic as it winds me up to buggery and sounds wrong.  Huw Edwards is a prime culprit.

[rudi]

It's nowhere near as annoying as people who pronounce "Aitch" as "Haitch" though...

[Beck]

It's nowhere near as annoying as people who pronounce "Aitch" as "Haitch" though...

Oh, sod off, you. It's a regional thing, isn't it? Anyway, "Haitch" is obviously correct because it starts with a "H", thus "H" deserves some sort of inclusion in it somewhere, and "Aitch" is far too similar to "A" and would suggest a letter closer to some sort of bizarre variant "A" symbol rather than the letter "H". The letter HAITCH.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

"the cutty sark was a aitch vessel. it was an aitch landmark in the london portfolio of tourist attractions"

[purlieu]

But it's spelled 'aitch'.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yes, aitch is. How is haitch spelt? Remind me.

[depressed beyond tablets]

The English language is notoriously stubborn.

[purlieu]

Yes, aitch is. How is haitch spelt? Remind me.

Similarly to carblefleur.

[Dusty Gozongas]

If one were to wine and dine a dictionary and suggest "coffee" at the end of the evening, I have a feeling that the OED would prefer the suggestion of an hotel for such 'drinkies'. The mere mention of "a hotel" would, I'm sure, result in the OED forming the opinion that you're "talking to my tits".