The New Doctor Who thread

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

It could be Freema's one and only series:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2001320029-2007240235,00.html

Exterminate! Freema axed

By SARA NATHAN
TV Editor,
and ALLY ROSS
May 26, 2007


COMMENT ON THIS STORY



DOCTOR Who actress Freema Agyeman has been axed from the next series, The Sun can reveal.

Pretty Freema, 27, only joined the BBC1 sci-fi hit as the Timelord's new companion Martha Jones at the beginning of the current series three.

We told how the struggling actress scooped the role after Billie Piper quit. But show chiefs think her performance is not as strong as in her earlier episodes.

And they are planning a storyline where the Doctor, played by David Tennant, will lose her and travel through the universe searching for her.
The decision to dump Freema comes as a bolt from the blue after her performance for the first couple of episodes was praised.

A source said: "Freema is very talented but we don't think she is just right on Doctor Who. None of this is being done with any malice. Freema's a lovely girl."

Freema has previously admitted that she had a tough job to fill Billie's boots. Billie, who played Rose Tyler, left at the end of the second series.

Christopher Eccleston stunned the BBC by quitting as the Timelord after the first series of the revamped drama in 2005.

Meanwhile current star Tennant is still believed to be making just part of series four, which starts filming in Wales this summer.

A spokeswoman for the show refused to comment.

[surreal]

off-topic, but why do rags like the Sun always have to prefix women with "pretty", or "sexy" or something?  I mean, I'm not arguing but it just aggravates me...

[gatchamandave]

The  thing  is -  she's  getting  better  week  by  week.  If  there  is  a  problem  its  the  way  the  character  is  being  written,  with  her  unrequited  pash  for  the  Doctor  being  particularly  ill-conceived.

Tchhh...idiots...you hav  to  wonder  sometimes  what  goes  through  their  minds

[Small Man Big Horse]

I wouldn't be bothered if she were to go, I feel she's been weaker since the first three episodes. The main reason I struggle with her is the whole unrequieted love nonsense, which is admittedly not Freema's fault, but when she was being all moody and superior with Jessica Stevenson's character I found her to be pretty unlikeable.

I don't like the idea of guest companions in the slightest though. We need time to become emotionally involved with a character in something like Who, and it just wouldn't work if they only had one episode each. Plus I dread to think about which soap actors and actresses would be cast in the roles too.

[Sheldon Finklestein]

I was alarmed by this, particularly after having enjoyed her performance in Human Nature. I've found her portrayal of Martha very winning over the last few weeks and I'd be sad to see her go. More than anything, I don't want Doctor Who to be a revolving door of Doctors and Companions, in and out every couple of years. As long as the actress is competant (and I think Freema Agyeman is more than that), I want the companion character to have a chance to grow.

I just can't imagine Russell T Davies sacking her for being inadequate. Unless her performances in the last few episodes are somehow drastically shite, I can't see any reason for it. Then again, I suppose part of it may be how well you get on with people in Cardiff. One thought I have is, isn't principle shooting for the show finished by the time it starts going out? Therefore, if RTD had decided she was so dire as to merit a sacking, it would have been before he was lauding her in all those interviews. Fishy...

We should also bear in mind the fact that the BBC has issued as statement saying that the idea that she's be 'axed' or 'sacked' is rubbish (though this doesn't necesarily mean she won't go). In the end, I thought that piece was a vindictive attack on a promising young actress and I hope she sues that old bastard Murdoch for libel.

[Feralkid]

I felt that way about the first Cyberman episode, that one with Trigger and the woman off Coronation Street.  The first episode struck me as being really well-done and exciting, but the second was a total let-down by comparison.

I'm praying that doesn't happen with next week's episode.

I've seen next week's and trust me, you have nothing to fear.  It ends wonderfully.  Best Doctor Who story of the new series by far.   And really, since when could we trust The Sun's coverage of anything.

On a related note has anyone heard anything about RTD's "Tone meetings"?  Was chatting with a Beeb drama producer this week who explained that Russell and the team have a meeting for every episode where they chart and discuss what the tone of each scene should be and then make sure that the director, acts and department heads all model their work accordingly.....

[Backstage With Slowdive]

I think Freema's really good and that Billie was overrated. Her character is stronger because she is a Doctor herself and thus does bring some technical knowledge ability to situations herself, rather than relying on the Doctor to do and think of everything - companions that do that (Zoe, Liz Shaw, Romana, Leela the warrior, Ace) are more interesting.

Ian Chesterton would be another example of a pro-active companion, but he's really a special case because in those early stories it wasn't established that the Doctor was the central magician that he ended up as. The early Hartnell caused the characters to be in their predicaments, by operating his spaceship, but he didn't have much more control over things than that. Some early episodes don't even feature the Doctor at all and Ian does all the heroic stuff (see Keys Of Marinus for example).

The second Doctor was more obviously the central hero but he was frequently dithering and prone to want to stay out of trouble. It's only with the Pertwee years that we finally get the now-conventional element that the Doctor is a roving good guy who takes it on himself to sort out bad situations he happens to run into. To the extent that it seems uncharacteric at the end of Frontios for the 5th Doctor to say he shouldn't interfere in historical development any further, yet that was always his attitude a few incarnations back.

[Dusty Gozongas]

Worth a good cry that was. Perfect Who! And well worth a peek at what's going on here.

It's nice to see so many of you enjoying yourself for a change.

Good day to you. Pip Pip!

;0)

[mothman]

So, I wasn't imagining it then - that really was a bloody good episode? I sat through it thinking "This is superb, I must be missing something. Have my critical faculties atrophied that much? Oh, what will the other 'Whores say?"

[Dusty Gozongas]

So, I wasn't imagining it then - that really was a bloody good episode?

Loathe as I am to enthuse. Yes. Absolutely!

It's as if I've watched every single episode waiting for it to be so good. As if.

[Marvin]

That was a brilliant 45 minutes of television, beautiful stuff, can't wait for next week.

[gatchamandave]

I've seen next week's and trust me, you have nothing to fear.  It ends wonderfully.  Best Doctor Who story of the new series by far.   And really, since when could we trust The Sun's coverage of anything.

On a related note has anyone heard anything about RTD's "Tone meetings"?  Was chatting with a Beeb drama producer this week who explained that Russell and the team have a meeting for every episode where they chart and discuss what the tone of each scene should be and then make sure that the director, acts and department heads all model their work accordingly.....

When season  1/27  went  out  and  the  DW  Confidentials  mentioned the  tone  meetings  I  thought  it  to  be an  excellent  idea -  making  sure  that  the programme  observed  that  somewhat  nebulous  Dr  Who style - that  " quintessential  Englishness "   people used  to bang on  about  in  90s  documentaries  and  the columns  of  DWM. Now, however,  I  ain't  so  sure...they  certainly  sound  somewhat  heavy-handed, don't  they ?

[Jack Shaftoe]

I've had a 'tone meeting' for something I've been working on, and they're not as heavy-handed as they sound: just making sure everyone's on the same page, I think. Obviously in the case of Torchwood or Robin Hood, that page might be ripped in half and stained with piss, but still.

(I think part of it is that the BBC still isn't used to having a series produced by a writer/producer/showrunner, so there's trying to formalise the process a little bit).

Of course, of the joys of Who is that a shit episode can be followed by something glorious, so I'd hate for that to get flattened out into a series of 'mostly quite good' episodes. I think the sheer erraticness of Who is built into its DNA though, so would be difficult to take it too far.

On a sentimental note, seeing how happy that episode made everyone here is quite tremendously cheering.

[lipsink]

If it's true, the group at the meetings must have had amnesia during the second series episodes. It's been well documented already on this board about the the continuity of that series being all over the shop (Rose suddenly not being pissed off about Mickey joining the Tardis crew, the same "Life is about the bad times as well as the good"  speech being trotted out mere episodes apart, the Doctor and Rose acting like smug arseholes in Tooth and Claw-an idea that they would get their comeuppance that never materialised etc.) If they paid so much attention to the tone of each episode you'd think they'd take some time to make sure the arc made sense. Perhaps they were too busy back slapping eachother on being so clever about 'tone' that they forgot.

Anyway, I'm glad that this series has been consistent. But I just think RTD and co have a tendancy to rush in with characters developing close relationships. Giving Martha a chance to grow over time would be the better option rather than forcing this crush on the Doctor thing.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Indeed, I'm getting very fond of Martha, and would hate to see all her potential as a character get blurted out in a couple of episodes.

As my gf said this morning: 'when did it happen that American telly had to teach the British how to do understated?'

[Backstage With Slowdive]

Ah, I see the problem. Because of the switch over to the new format this thread hasn't been made "CaB compliant" yet. I'll sort things out.

There's a clear Mitchell&Webb Effect going on with the responses to this episode: just because the other stuff has been so bad, it's getting hailed and overrated as the best thing ever when really it was just pretty good. I wouldn't put it in the all-time DW top 10. I don't think I'd even put it in the top 20. I'd put it about the level of Stones Of Blood or State Of Decay - fab and watchable and keeping me tuning in to the show, but not anything truly amazing or memorable.

That is the correct, sober opinion. Anything stronger is overreaction. Including what I wrote initially. I've calmed down now.

[Jemble Fred]

I can't believe that yesterday it was somehow acceptable to bitch about something as meaningless as Martha's mother being able to speak to her on the phone, as if it mattered – but the Doctor suddenly being able to make himself human on a whim, no problem...

It was good, anyway. Perhaps it seemed especially so just because I'd been hauling myself through DOTD all week. Pertwee's era would've stretched yesterday's episode to about three hours and thrown in at least five utterly unconvincing karate chops.

[lipsink]

I disagree Slowdive. Watching it last night I was kind of undecided about it. I thought it was pretty average. Watching it again today I'm starting to notice beautiful little ideas that resonate with inspiration. Things like the appealing idea of the psychic kid noticing something strange about his teacher, the melancholic music over the usual relentless paced Doctor explains-everything-really-fast when he has to change, the disturbing images of the Doctor married with children (we feel like he's cheated on us the audience). On the second viewing I've noticed how this episode has got under my skin. I've also noticed how this epsiode could be watched endlessly.

Did anyone else think that when the first scarecrow moved the man who saw him looked like he was flipping the bird?

[Catalogue Trousers]

Backstage With Slowdive wrote:

I think Freema's really good and that Billie was overrated. Her character is stronger because she is a Doctor herself and thus does bring some technical knowledge ability to situations herself, rather than relying on the Doctor to do and think of everything - companions that do that (Zoe, Liz Shaw, Romana, Leela the warrior, Ace) are more interesting.

Well, exactly. And don't forget Barbara, Ian, Steven, both Romanas...but yes, that's exactly right - especially the opening sentence.

Jemble Fred wrote:

but the Doctor suddenly being able to make himself human on a whim, no problem...

Ah, but CANONICALLY - as last night's episode proved beyond all doubt - he's already been half-human for a VERY long time, so not such a big leap at all, really...

Pertwee's era would've stretched yesterday's episode to about three hours and thrown in at least five utterly unconvincing karate chops.

Now, now, you're just Trouser-baiting now!

But anyway...what did I reckon to it? Well - apart from the woeful "he's in love  with a human woman AND IT ISN'T ME!!!!" moment and a few bits of "cor, what racist arsewipes people were in 1913, eh kids? How much more enlightened we ALL are today, right?..." - it was absolutely blummen marvellous! A real joy to watch pretty much from start to finish. Call me an awkward sod, but I reckon that Tennant should be playing the Doc much more in the style of "John Smith" than he currently is. His performance was just spot-on. There wasn't a single member of the cast giving a duff performance, the effects were nicely-restrained (which made the dustifying guns at the end all the more effective), the scarecrows were properly grotesque, even the music - while all-pervasive and obvious - was somewhat better than it's been in yonks.

And Paul Cornell wrote it! The chap whose Father's Day I scorn a great deal and whose later Virgin/BBC novels were the worst sort of smug self-indulgent "me and my mates" wank. But with this...yes, as I hoped, he's redeemed himself splendidly - as long as the ending really is as good as Feralkid reckons!

[biscuitsandtea]

I really bloody enjoyed that episode. Cracking stuff.

I've rarely been able to say that of new who and sound convincing to both myself and others.

[duckorange]

That was proper Who for the old-style fans.

"I didn't get it" said Duckorange Jr as the end credits rolled and I sat there ever-so-slightly open-mouthed.

"That is, my son", I told him, "because that's the first episode they didn't write for children."

[gatchamandave]

Ah, I see the problem. Because of the switch over to the new format this thread hasn't been made "CaB compliant" yet. I'll sort things out.

There's a clear Mitchell&Webb Effect going on with the responses to this episode: just because the other stuff has been so bad, it's getting hailed and overrated as the best thing ever when really it was just pretty good. I wouldn't put it in the all-time DW top 10. I don't think I'd even put it in the top 20. I'd put it about the level of Stones Of Blood or State Of Decay - fab and watchable and keeping me tuning in to the show, but not anything truly amazing or memorable.

That is the correct, sober opinion. Anything stronger is overreaction. Including what I wrote initially. I've calmed down now.

Steady  on, old man -  you're letting  the  hang-over  dictate  your  response  to  the  party.  That  was a pitch-perfect  piece of  Who and you  probably suspect  that  yourself.

[mothman]

Yes, I'd like to think we're able to tell the difference between good-episodes, and good-when-compared-to-other-almost-universally-rubbish-episodes. If we'd had naught but consistently awful, really bad, season-2-at-its-lowest-ebb episodes to contrast it with, I think we'd all be a lot more cynical. But most of us have agreed that season 3 has generally been alright.

Why the different surname for Jessica S?

Edit: ahh. . . "For the first fourteen years of her career, she used her maiden name as a stage name." (Wikipedia)

[Backstage With Slowdive]

Steady  on, old man -  you're letting  the  hang-over  dictate  your  response  to  the  party.  That  was a pitch-perfect  piece of  Who and you  probably suspect  that  yourself.

I expect I'll think better of it when I've finished watching Cube Zero, which will undoubtedly be shite.

Anyone else notice on that Wikipedia page that Jessica Thingy sacked her agent for putting her in According To Bex? Why didn't she check the script before signing on for it?

[mothman]

Perhaps she discovered she was losing out on parts because whenever her name came up, she was getting rejected because they didn't want Juliet Stevenson for the role!

[Still Not George]

Fuckin'ell that was good. Multiple plot threads! Performances that aren't straight from the "I'm a stage-school shitlapper" world of acting! A script with intrigue, mystery, suspense and dialogue worth the effort of watching! Fucked up scarecrows! Proper Doctor Who at last!

[weekender]

I just watched it again on BBC3 and I don't want to change my opinion.  It *was* *really* good.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Oh, that was just utterly wonderful. It looked  like an episode written and acted with real care and sincerity.

And Ms Agyeman was superb - no duff notes or uncertainty; just incredibly warm and convinving.

And I can't really imagine another Doctor playing John Smith so affectingly, other than Troughton. High praise indeed for young Mr Tennant.

Sod hyperbole, that was one of the finest episodes of Who I've ever seen. And I've seen all that it is possible to see, to put this in context.

God, please let episode two be as good, if not better...

PS: I think Baines, from this showing at least, might have to be added to the list of great "human-shaped" Who baddies.

PPS: I actually made an "awww" noise when the Doctor mentioned his parents. Am I alone in being so sappy?

[Ray Le Otter]

I'm still shocked by Slowdive being complementary about the series...

Seriously though, this was top notch from the start. It is interesting how opinions differ though - the missus thought it was a bit "meh" whereas I loved it. She laughed at the Scarecrows but I thought they were pretty good. And it seems as if Charles Palmer is THE best director since Joe Ahearne in series one (excluding Graeme Harper, who's only just rediscovered his talent on "42"). Roll on next week's episode, and the rest - it would seem that the quality is unlikely to drop from hereon...   

..and to Jemble Fred, i'd say that if you found "Day Of The Daleks" a slog, then pity me as I've just started to watch "Colony In Space". I think I'd rather watch Season 24 instead.

[samadriel]

PPS: I actually made an "awww" noise when the Doctor mentioned his parents. Am I alone in being so sappy?

Oh, 'Sydney and Verity', I thought that was wonderful.

FINALLY, some New Who for which I don't have to make a million concessions to enjoy -- just a good, solid story with a nice script (after all, it's not Cornell's fault they've got that stupid 'Martha has a crush on the Doctor' arc going on) and class performances.

Poor Crimean bloke.

and a few bits of "cor, what racist arsewipes people were in 1913, eh kids? How much more enlightened we ALL are today, right?..."

I'd replace 'racist' with 'classist', there -- I thought they soft-pedalled the racial aspect, actually.  I wondered if they were going to have Smith say 'you silly bloody native!' or something like that when he was shooing Martha out of his office, but I don't think the Beeb would want one of their most broadly-loved and storied TV heroes talking like that these days, memory-replacement or no...  mind you, him allowing the kid to cop a beating was a nice touch in that vein -- Smith's not a bad bloke, but he's no Doctor.

Still, you're dead right that Tennant should be more 'Smith-ish' in his regular performance -- it'd be a lot more charming than... 'Mr Radiation Shoe'.

Hey, Mr Tawky Tawny has a red telephone -- he must be talking to Batman.