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Poker

Started by Milo, June 01, 2007, 02:39:13 PM

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Milo

I've been playing Texas Hold'em with friends of mine every so often for a while now and there is a problem I would like to solve. We generally play to last-man-standing so the final person left in gets all the cash from a game. However, what this tends to mean is once we get down to two people the game goes on for bloody ages as both players become incredibly cautious and very few chips change hands.

To solve this, I thought about introducing something like a set number of hands once down to two players so, for example, a maximum of 20 hands can be played once only two people are left in the game with whoever having the most chips after this taking the winnings. Unfortunately, this might create a situation in which someone with a significant chip lead would just fold for all 20 hands and still emerge the winner.

So, does anyone have any better ideas for keeping the game moving?

mook

Couldn't you make the blinds bigger each hand? or would that still favour the cautious player with a big chip lead?

Milo

Possibly. We generally double the blinds as each player is knocked out but increasing each hand would certainly get things moving.

I think part of the problem might be the fact that the other people won't bet high until they get something really good, when even just a highish pair stands a good chance when there's only two of you.

hoverdonkey

Yeah, keep increasing the hands incrementally every few hands so that the player who is behind has to make a move before the big blind gets too big for him.

Pseudopath

Or once it's heads-up, play Scissors Paper Stone (best of three) to decide the winner. Harsh but fair.

Seriously, if heads-up goes on for too long, I usually offer to split the winnings, even if I'm a huge chip leader. I guess I'm selfless (stupid) like that.

superpie

Using blind's would be the only way to stick to the actual rules of the game, and still have it be poker. Most of the times when I play and its down to the last two, normally the blinds have got to a point were playing cautiously wouldn't really yield anything.

Alternatively, have the bubble at the last two (the point at which you get paid). The winner would get say 70% of the pot the second place 30%. That would encourage more relaxed play, as they'd be thinking "well, at least I get something"

Man, my first post here and it's about gambling! No wonder I'm always broke...

Pseudopath

Quote from: superpie on June 01, 2007, 02:58:33 PMMan, my first post here and it's about gambling! No wonder I'm always broke...

Well, hello there! Hope you enjoy your stay.

Uncle TechTip

Poker! I've been playing Sky Poker a lot. They have freeroll tournaments and so it's possible to sign up and not deposit a penny. I'm doing quite well now after I won my first freeroll! So can we resurrect CAB sessions? Anyone fancy a fun game at PokerRoom or somewhere?

MojoJojo

Going to last man standing always has this problem. The actual money value becomes irrelevant, you might as well just play with tokens. Raising the blinds doesn't really help - all that happens is the big blind gets pasted back and forth. You're just waiting until both people have a half decent hand so they go all in. It's very, very dull. So we just went to the last two; when you're down to three, the chip leader still has something to play for since they can get more money.

superpie

Quote from: Pseudopath on June 01, 2007, 03:01:57 PM
Well, hello there! Hope you enjoy your stay.

I'm sure I will. In fact I bet I will. Actully I raise you.

Sod it.......................I'm going 'all in'

hoverdonkey

superpie is on tilt already

Pseudopath

Quote from: hoverdonkey on June 01, 2007, 03:08:44 PM
superpie is on tilt already

Nevertheless, it's good to welcome him into the 'fold'. Ho ho!

Milo

Right then, maybe I'll go with just going to two and then splitting 70/30. It does just seem to get silly otherwise. We usually want to get a few games in but one of them can go on for hours.

Baltimora

Increasing the blinds every 6 hands works well for heads up. The smaller stack usually needs to go all in fairly quickly making for an exciting finish. The problem with just splitting 70/30 between the last two players is that when you get down to three, people will become very cautious as third gets no cash. If you play a tournament of William Hill or whatever the blinds towards the end are 500 and 1000 in a chip pool of 7,500 so it tends to finish pretty sharpish.

hoverdonkey

I concur Balti. Get the blinds up and the short stack has to make the move and try to double up, on hands he wouldn't otherwise play

Milo

I shall give the blind-raising every 6 hands a try and report back tomorrow.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Baltimora on June 01, 2007, 03:21:45 PM
Increasing the blinds every 6 hands works well for heads up. The smaller stack usually needs to go all in fairly quickly making for an exciting finish. The problem with just splitting 70/30 between the last two players is that when you get down to three, people will become very cautious as third gets no cash. If you play a tournament of William Hill or whatever the blinds towards the end are 500 and 1000 in a chip pool of 7,500 so it tends to finish pretty sharpish.

I don't understand all this talk of splitting 30/70 for 1st and 2nd. Why not just pay out in proportion to the chips they have, you know, like poker? That way, when you have 3 players, everyone has something to play for. The person in third isn't going to be massively cautious if all they have is 25p in chips.

Raising the blinds is the best way of forcing the game to finish (if for some reason you have a problem with people just finishing at at time), but it's very dull and not very fair. You get to the point where the chip loser has to go all in to meet the blinds, the big blind goes back and forth because all the betting is before the flop and no one wants to risk anything, then the chip leader wins when he gets bored and bets on 37 that becomes a full house, beating a pair of aces.

Milo

The progressive raising of blinds did seem to work well but as I was the first person knocked out in more than one game I wasn't paying too close attention. I lost interest and went to work on the host's Magners supply instead.

Baltimora

Quote from: MojoJojo on June 01, 2007, 04:44:10 PM
I don't understand all this talk of splitting 30/70 for 1st and 2nd. Why not just pay out in proportion to the chips they have, you know, like poker? That way, when you have 3 players, everyone has something to play for. The person in third isn't going to be massively cautious if all they have is 25p in chips.

If you're playing that way, you might as well play a cash game rather than a tournament. The very thing that makes a tournament exciting is that the chip count influences how you play, forces you to make calls and raises you wouldn't normally make and increases the opportunities for bluffing and tactical play. In my view it's pure poker. That said when I'm playing a home game with mates we usually play for cash with everyone buying in £30 for chips and just have a laugh with no one getting knocked out.

rudi

As has already been noted, you have two choices:

Raise the blinds or play a cash game. All other options are unfair or unworkable.

QuoteAnyone fancy a fun game at PokerRoom or somewhere?

Sounds good to me sir...

Dr_Gloryhole

Just lost £60 in a cash game.

Serves me right, i was playing against 3 croupiers (I am a croupier, although am quite new to the job)

rudi

Ah well, keep learning, you'll get it back.

At the last count I'm still running at a profit over the last few years, but the fun of playing would make it worth it even if that were not the case.

Eight Taiwanese Teenagers

Dr Kawashima says "Even bad puns can be good for your brain! I know they often aren't very... punny! Hoo hoo ha! But if you can stomach them, they'll really help your brain."

hencole

My usual texas NL poker format is for blind to go up every 12 hands with unlimited rebuys up until the 3rd or 4th level. It forces the action late on, but allows for some deepstack play earlier in the game and you usually know roughly when the game will end. If you want to be more precise set the blinds to go up after a certain length of time. We play to a winner and split the money 70% for first and 30% for second.

From experience, games where the blinds only go up after a player goes out are usually flawed as they can be over in an hour or last half a day.

I do much prefer cash for my home games, that way no body ever goes out and you can play mixed games, however online and in clubs I'm a NL or Omaha HL tournament junkie.

Anyone up for VW game on say pokerstars sometime?

Uncle TechTip

Yes. I shall take the responsibility of organising unless there is an objection. Do they have private tables at PStars?

hoverdonkey

I'll have a go. I've never played online before and only played a couple of 'real life' games but I've watched plenty so should be able to handle myself

mrpants

I'd be up for a game, and I reckon Purple Tentacle would be too if you don't mind some red hot clique action.

hencole

Actually just thought you need a certain number of frequent player points before they allow you to set up private games. I'm pretty sure I have enough. I will investigate and report back, with the idea of setting up a game nelate next week.

SetToStun

I'm fascinated by the whole poker thing, but seriously need to play some (read: shitloads of) practice games to get a feel for it and properly understand the betting  system and rules. Can anyone recommend a good site where I can use "play money" to sharpen my saw before playing for real? I tried Poker Stars, but they only give you 1,000 play points and I couldn't find a play money table that required fewer than 4,000 to join in. Even playing against bots would be a start. Cheers.

mrpants

Poker Room is pretty good.  You get $1000 in play money and can top that up when it gets a bit low.