Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 06:55:45 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Who do you trust???

Started by Carlos Tevez, June 02, 2007, 03:47:11 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Carlos Tevez

I was reading a Mark E. Smith interview a while back and something he said really resonated with me. He said something along the lines of never revealing too much about himself as people only use that information against you. Although I've got some great friends, I generally only release trivial information about myself, whereas they're always confiding in me. I suppose that's the result of appearing to be open, yet actually choosing what I say and how I say things very carefully. Similarly to this, I only enter situations in which I can escape from instantly; or that are likely to cause limited damage to myself if something goes pear-shaped.

How common is a lack of trust amongst others? Is it right-headed and conductive to a successful life or am I missing out on something?

P K Duck

I think this sort of thing gets easier with experience. Unless you've been screwed over and had to cope with the aftermath, you've only got a vague understanding of what trust is anyway.

It also depends on what you mean by confiding personal information. They're are quite a few people who over-do this particular thing as a way of drawing you closer to themselves quickly, or as an attention-seeking device, and neither is comparable to friends forming strong social bonds or whatever.

I don't think you're missing out by being essentially flippant with your own feelings and thoughts among your friends. It is often seen as a sign that the person is comfortable with themselves, and may result in people opening up towards you as a result. The problem might arise if you were a bit of a bastard, and used this information against them, but I guess you'll know if you were like this, and hopefully stop.

QuoteSimilarly to this, I only enter situations in which I can escape from instantly; or that are likely to cause limited damage to myself if something goes pear-shaped.
This may prove limiting in the end, but if you use this as a way of trying new things, you'll be in a better position to choose what you do what to get involved with a bit deeper down the line.

Artemis

I deal with the disappointing cuntishness in others somewhat differently. I don't really hide that much about myself (except stuff I think whoever I'm with would have a hard time dealing with, and even then only rarely), but I have a horribly tendency to objectify people from the outset so that if they behave like an asshole, it has minimal impact on me. It works, but it's a sad place to be... sometimes I wish people could mean more to me.

Labian Quest

There are some great tips on spotting liars here:

http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies.php

...the only problem with passing on this kind of information is that a good liar can use it to become an even better one, shit like that just goes on and on and on until the sun implodes!

chocky909


daisy11

Quote from: chocky909 on June 03, 2007, 12:53:24 AM
The boys at Kwik Fit.

Mummies, everywhere, except that one in that movie with those beetles ...

NoSleep

Quote from: Labian Quest on June 02, 2007, 11:59:22 PM
There are some great tips on spotting liars here:

http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies.php


Quote• A person who is lying to you will avoid making eye contact.

Hasn't this been shown to be a cultural thing? The police have gotten into trouble over this one, as some cultures don't look at you until they've finished speaking. I guess that's covered by...

QuoteThe above behaviors should be compared to a persons base (normal) behavior whenever possible.

Which means you'll only be able to tell with people you already know well.

edit: Actually, that's how I came to be able spot liars who I had never met before. Their behaviour was similar to those I had known who I had subsequently found to be liars.



I MAY UNCONSCIOUSLY PLACE OBJECTS, LIKE A BOOK OR COFFEE CUP, BETWEEN MYSELF AND YOU!!!

Labian Quest

Quote• A person who is lying to you will avoid making eye contact.

I doubt that it is as cut and dried as that, but I did read somewhere else that avoiding eye contact (in the absence of cultural differences, etc) is usually a sign that the person is feeling uncomfortable because they are avoiding saying something, which will quite often, but not always, mean they are lying, they could also just be avoiding saying something out of politeness.

QuoteThe above behaviors should be compared to a persons base (normal) behavior whenever possible.

QuoteWhich means you'll only be able to tell with people you already know well.

edit: Actually, that's how I came to be able spot liars who I had never met before. Their behaviour was similar to those I had known who I had subsequently found to be liars.

Yup, me too, another one that I don't think they mentioned there was unnatural sounding changes in the pitch of people's voices.

Dark Sky

Doesn't anyone else get nervous even when innocent if it's known that someone around you is guilty or something?

I remember at school there would be loads of occasions when some money went missing or something and the teacher would say, "well someone in this room took it", and although it was never me, I would start sweating and swallowing and avoiding eye contact, and just generally feeling really ashamed of myself.  Even though I was innocent.

Same whenever I walk through customs.  I always get self conscious about my body movement and what I'm saying and doing because I know that that's the sort of things they look out for in naughty nasty criminal types.

Ultimately the secret to good lying is just to completely believe the lie.  I'm actually pretty good at this, I think.  Though I can't think of any examples because in my head I'm too good at convincing myself of falsities.  Best thing to do is to just look into the other person's eye, and look slightly sad (NOT ANGRY!!!) that they'd suggested that you'd done whatever it is you did do but are denying.  And then when they relent moan on and on at them about how they could think that of you until they apologise and promise to make it up to you.

NoSleep

Quote from: Labian Quest on June 03, 2007, 11:14:29 AM
Yup, me too, another one that I don't think they mentioned there was unnatural sounding changes in the pitch of people's voices.
I've noticed that one, too. Actually, I don't have a list of things set out to look for, it's more of an intuitive thing. I sense something's wrong about their manner.

Quote from: Dark Sky on June 03, 2007, 11:18:11 AM
Best thing to do is to just look into the other person's eye, and look slightly sad (NOT ANGRY!!!) that they'd suggested that you'd done whatever it is you did do but are denying.  And then when they relent moan on and on at them about how they could think that of you until they apologise and promise to make it up to you.

If I suspected somebody of lying, the last thing I'd do is to allow them to know that.

Is it not so 'well-known' that lack of eye-contact is a sign of guilt, so someone who is lying will sometimes over-compensate with too much eye-contact.

Carlos Tevez

None of these factors are reliable indicators of lying. It's similar to that body language horseshit.

Natural liars have no problem in telling a lie as if it were truth - that's why they're so good at it.

buttgammon

Quote from: Dark Sky on June 03, 2007, 11:18:11 AM
Doesn't anyone else get nervous even when innocent if it's known that someone around you is guilty or something?

Yes. I've often been falsely accused of lying because I will sometimes look at the floor and start giggling and smirking if I'm telling the truth. It's very annoying.

As for the walking through customs thing, I must look more guilty than a prisoner on death row about to be executed! And when I always inevitably leave something metallic in my pockets by mistake (it was my iPod last time), I nearly shit myself when the beeper goes off. All of these thoughts about bombs made with fertiliser, an alarm clock and a circuit board with loads of wires sticking out having been placed in my pocket by a terrorist who didn't have the balls to do a suicide bombing flash through my head as I get searched, and I'm normally quite relieved to get through without being put on the next plane to Guantanamo Bay.

NoSleep

Quote from: Carlos Tevez on June 03, 2007, 12:44:49 PM
None of these factors are reliable indicators of lying. It's similar to that body language horseshit.

Natural liars have no problem in telling a lie as if it were truth - that's why they're so good at it.

Even the best lies are often too good to be true. It took me a while to realize this, but that 'can this really be true? Am I going mad?' feeling, then later uncovering the lie, led me to trust my own first impression first, and ask questions later. What's the worst that could happen?

Carlos Tevez

Quote from: buttgammon on June 03, 2007, 12:49:39 PM
Yes. I've often been falsely accused of lying because I will sometimes look at the floor and start giggling and smirking if I'm telling the truth. It's very annoying.

I do this. I'm a good liar, but bad at telling the truth.

rudi

Quote from: Carlos Tevez on June 03, 2007, 01:42:13 PM
I do this. I'm a good liar, but bad at telling the truth.

I don't believe you.

daisy11

#17
Quote from: Steve Lampkins on June 03, 2007, 11:41:51 AM
Is it not so 'well-known' that lack of eye-contact is a sign of guilt, so someone who is lying will sometimes over-compensate with too much eye-contact.

They glance to the upper left a lot don't they?  Trying to remember if there are any neurological reasons for this but failing. 
Also, the liar's pupils are supposed to dilate but I could never spot this when I tied an ex up to interrogate, sorry to ask if he was cheating on me ;-)
Oh, I feel a botanical fact coming on - did you know that Belladonna was used as eyedrops by wenches for centuries as it dilates the pupils and thus increases attractiveness.  Hence its name.
NB  Do not try this at home as this plant contains a highly effective poison.

I think if you're losing the ability to trust people, then you need to change your friends, or see a dr (but make sure it's a good one as they can really make big mistakes;-)

Make me smile

Quote from: daisy11 on June 04, 2007, 08:21:32 AM
They glance to the upper left a lot don't they?  Trying to remember if there are any neurological reasons for this but failing. 

I think it's supposed to be because the creative part of the brain is over the left eye, so people look up and left when trying to make up a lie and the memory store is over the right eye, so people look up and right when they are telling the truth.

It may well be the other way round, or complete nonsense.

Go With The Flow

Quote from: Janek's Little Black Box on June 03, 2007, 10:35:32 AM


I MAY UNCONSCIOUSLY PLACE OBJECTS, LIKE A BOOK OR COFFEE CUP, BETWEEN MYSELF AND YOU!!!

That video was on the last episode of Beavis and Butthead that I watched. Good times.

Carlos Tevez

Can we leave the pseudo science for another thread and just talk about trust?

annalisa

Quote from: Dark Sky on June 03, 2007, 11:18:11 AM
Best thing to do is to just look into the other person's eye, and look slightly sad (NOT ANGRY!!!) that they'd suggested that you'd done whatever it is you did do but are denying.  And then when they relent moan on and on at them about how they could think that of you until they apologise and promise to make it up to you.

Funnily enough I've had this exact one pulled on me, not very nice let me tell you. Probably part of the reason why I don't really ever trust anyone completely, but I have my own silly reasons for that as well. I don't think you can ever fully know someone, regardless of the closeness of your relationship. It sounds completely ridiculous (and probably is) but I always think of those situations where they discover a serial killer has a wife and children and is a pillar of their community, and their nearest and dearest can't believe they'd ever do it. An extreme example perhaps but I can't honestly say there's anyone I know that I trust completely.

The Argus

Unless you've been seriously burned before, isn't a large part of how much you trust other people greatly influenced by how trustworthy you are?  I think if I was the sort of person who went around gossiping and telling other people's secrets I'd never be able to trust someone else to keep my own.  Might seem obvious, but that's the way I generally see it.

gazzyk1ns

Quote from: Carlos Tevez on June 03, 2007, 12:44:49 PM
None of these factors are reliable indicators of lying. It's similar to that body language horseshit.

Natural liars have no problem in telling a lie as if it were truth - that's why they're so good at it.

Exactly, I'm glad someone said that. That stuff about genuine and non-genuine smiles obviously holds water in itself but I don't see how it's relevant in this context - surely you need to know exactly why they're fake-smiling, and/or what at, which is impossible.

Small Man Big Horse

QuoteBest thing to do is to just look into the other person's eye, and look slightly sad (NOT ANGRY!!!) that they'd suggested that you'd done whatever it is you did do but are denying.  And then when they relent moan on and on at them about how they could think that of you until they apologise and promise to make it up to you.

I used to do this when I was in my late teens, and got really good at it. You sort of get to the point where you believe your own lie, so become a bit offended when someone questions it. It almost got easier to tell a small white lie than the truth, and it's only when I got caught out once that I realised how idiotic it all was and how it's just far easier to tell the truth. But hey, I was young back then, and a bit of a twat sometimes.

Nowdays I'm pretty relaxed when it comes to trusting people, I'm generally a very open person, not for any devious psychological reason but just because I don't really mind who knows what about me. Obviously there are some things I keep very quiet about and only share with very close friends, but I'm quite happy to go on about how crap I used to be at sex when I was younger, or about the joys of the various times I've had to seek pyschiatric help, etc.

The Argus

Remember Jerry, it's not a lie if you believe it.

wasp_f15ting

I wonder where my paranoia stems from... I just simply refuse to believe or trust anything. I try not to let it get in my of functioning in life, but I just kind of never invest too much trust in any situation. This is most probably due to my age. I have had trust shattered by every family member, to very close friends.. so I guess this is the cause of my paranoia.

I guess the reason I continue to be like this is, my suspicion is usually warranted. Maybe it's just the people I know..

To older members, or those with complete trust, how did you arrive at this stage? Did you just go beyond trust, and think "ahh well if I get screwed, then shame on them"  I would love to be able to just meet someone and have zero cynicism about their intentions.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote"ahh well if I get screwed, then shame on them"

That's definitely a part of it for me, but I think it's more the fact that my social circle has gotten smaller over the years and the people I was wary of trusting in the past are no longer part of it. We've all known each other for so long now that we're just incredibly comfortable with telling each other pretty much everything that happens, and it's a really nice situation to be in. Also, whilst I've trusted people in the past and they've let me down, nothing particularly negative has happened. I've been hurt, for sure, but that's inevitable in life alas.

Oscar

I agree with SMBH, but I  think I've also learnt a zero tolerance attitude, if I meet someone new and they seem to treat me with disrespect then I confront them over it, if they continue to do so, then I ditch them (or at least ensure that they can't affect me). When I look back at all the times I got mistreated when I was younger I realise that I was useless at judging people and accepted a lot of things that I shouldn't have. I was also quite unreliable and selfish myself, so that's a massive part of it. In the end, good people find good people.