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Can you like people even if they believe in fundamentally different things?

Started by Dark Poet, June 03, 2007, 10:21:50 PM

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Dark Poet

I know this is a little out of date but watching "When Louis Met Ann Widdecombe" for the first time recently, I was struck by just how much I admired her.  Despite her Conservative politics and battle-ax demeanour, she came across as the antithesis of the self-obsessed, power-hungry, media-savvy politician with only their own agenda.  She's intelligent with an incredible work ethic, is selfless where her party (and her mother) is concerned and is only interested in policies of substance, which she sticks by.  Hugh Abbot with bells on if you like.  She was occasionally charming but in a sincere way and showed a stoic resilience commendable of anyone in the public eye.  She's also proved to be incredibly adaptable, having since branched out into many other areas besides politics.  Louis admitted he'd become quite fond of her by the end and it reminded me of the pact Henry Fonda and James Stewart decided upon never to discuss politics.

The question is, do you have friends (or are there people you admire) whose politics or principles you find abhorrent?  Perhaps it's best to ignore family since there are often generational differences in addition to attachment issues that make objective reasoning impossible.

Me, I've had a few quasi-racist acquaintances in my time who've been tolerated and I think Clint Eastwood's a pretty good director but not a lot more to go on than that.

Which is where you come in.

Artemis

If I know someone well, the qualities I like about them will overshadow any difference of opinion we might have. One of my closest friends is someone who's a bit pre-occupied with money, property and has a lot of time for christianity, so that's nearly the exact opposite of me, but he's also kind, sincere and warm hearted, and that's what I like about him.

I try to look for underlying good qualities in people, but if someone's so in-my-face about some political issue or belief that offends me, I'll find it hard to get past that, largely because they're making it difficult for me to.

purlieu

My housemate doesn't like Muslims, Jews and admitted with some surprise that "some Scots are alright, actually", and says any sort of homosexual feeling is "not right" and "not natural" (despite denying being homophobic or racist), yet he's one of my closest friends.  He seems to tolerate my bisexuality quite well, mind...

Shoulders?-Stomach!

How well, eh?

I'm friends with a member of the young conservatives but we both get on as we're thoroughly decent people and we're both interested in politics which gives us plenty to talk about at all times, as we disagree about everything. It's great being able to discuss these things with someone my own age with neither of us being scared to be too intellectual or to say pompous things. Unfortunately he tends to veer towards very wealthy people like himself for friends and engages in ridiculously upper class activities like skiing so, I'm phased out, so I'm starting to wear off him. But similar people to gravitate towards one another and I don't hold anything against the guy, the ridiculous young tory Times reader.

I work with a lovely fella from New Zealand who surprised the hell out of me when I came across him reading a Bible on his break the other day. I asked him to explain his beliefs to me and it turns out he is seriously into this evangelical Christian stuff, though he has never preached to any of us, which is why I don't have a problem with him. He is vehemently pro Israel ("God's children") and seems very weary of the coming threat from the Devil which is apparently warned of in the good book. I could only assume he was talking about radical Islam, which spooked me a little. He's one of those people who takes everything in the Bible super literally and I think overall I just felt a bit sorry for him. To point out the inherent contradictions in his belief system would not only have been cruel, but completely pointless.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I'm very weary of the coming threat of the devil too, we'd get on famously! ;-)

Sheldon Finklestein

No, and I hate anyone who disagrees with me.

Seriously, though, I do find it very difficult to truly like someone I fundamentally disagree with. It just feels like a betrayal of my principles to do so. Obviously, their are different levels. I'm friends with a few Conservatives, but keep a certain distance from the worrying proportion of people around me who are racist, homophobic or otherwise bigoted.

glitch

I used to work with a Jehovah's Witness and for whatever reason, we got on famously. I'm a devout atheist, so once we overcame that stumbling block, we had an unspoken rule of never really talking about religion. She'd mention her religion from time to time, normally when I asked her what she'd been up to at the weekend, but aside from brief mentions like that the subject was completely off-limits.

For someone who was very Christian, she had a dark sense of humour and I think that's why we get on so well. The fact that she was easy on the eye was a plus too.

Al Tha Funkee Homosapien

Quote from: Regular Chicken on June 04, 2007, 12:35:41 AM
I work with a lovely fella from New Zealand who surprised the hell out of me when I came across him reading a Bible on his break the other day. I asked him to explain his beliefs to me and it turns out he is seriously into this evangelical Christian stuff, though he has never preached to any of us, which is why I don't have a problem with him. He is vehemently pro Israel ("God's children") and seems very weary of the coming threat from the Devil which is apparently warned of in the good book. I could only assume he was talking about radical Islam, which spooked me a little. He's one of those people who takes everything in the Bible super literally and I think overall I just felt a bit sorry for him. To point out the inherent contradictions in his belief system would not only have been cruel, but completely pointless.

A bit like a kiwi George W Bush then?

daisy11

Quote from: Regular Chicken on June 04, 2007, 12:35:41 AM
I work with a lovely fella from New Zealand who surprised the hell out of me when I came across him reading a Bible on his break the other day. I asked him to explain his beliefs to me and it turns out he is seriously into this evangelical Christian stuff, though he has never preached to any of us, which is why I don't have a problem with him. He is vehemently pro Israel ("God's children") and seems very weary of the coming threat from the Devil which is apparently warned of in the good book. I could only assume he was talking about radical Islam, which spooked me a little. He's one of those people who takes everything in the Bible super literally and I think overall I just felt a bit sorry for him. To point out the inherent contradictions in his belief system would not only have been cruel, but completely pointless.

I'd pop Aesop's Fables, Arabian Nights, and Hans Christian Andersen's Fairy Tales into my handbag, sit beside him and read these during break, perhaps it will click then. Could take a month or so but it's worth a try.

I have friends and family who are practising Catholics, ones that are tee-totall, a few that are superfit and healthy, some that are slobs, some that are borderline alcoholics, some who smoke, ahem, and even an animals righter fgs, I love them all.  But I couldn't accept them being a Bon Jovi fan though, oh no ...

Denny Crane

As with most of the members of cab I'm a die-hard atheist, my best male friend however is a seriously devout Methodist studying theology, we don't really do the whole avoiding the subject of religion thing, perhaps the fact that he's studying it academically leaves him more open to discussion. As I say we're the best of friends but I do find his faith (an anyone's for that matter) utterly mystifiying.

Waking Life

I know the generation thing has been mentioned, but I find myself getting annoyed very quickly with my girlfriends parents.  They really have a chip on their shoulders about political correctness and it's all they ever go on about.  I've really tried to get along but I find myself shredding my tongue as soon as the conversation moves towards politics.  I've been told I come across as dogmatic when arguing so I really have to watch myself in certain company.

On saying that though, I had a flatmate for two years who was very conservative.  To be honest, he didn't have much interest in politics and a lot of his views were contradictory so maybe that's why it never bothered me.  When we got drunk in the flat our discussions would veer towards politics but we we were always accepting of the differences in our opinion and we were great friends.  What was strange about him though was that all of his friends were lefties.

hoverdonkey

The last four Monday's I've been off work - it's how my rota is at the minute - and each Monday a Jehovah called Bob comes round. I don't let him in but I've rarely got anything better to do so I stand on the doorstep and chat with him for about half an hour. He probably thinks he's on his way to converting me and no doubt  mentions me at their meetings just up the road, but I disagree with just about every word that comes out of his mouth. Today he was spouting all sorts of homophobic nonsense. Thing is, his daft religious views aside, he's a reasonable bloke and I enjoy the quasi-debate whereby we try to convince each other of our points of view knowing full well we are both intransiently stuck to our positions. Haha, I just remembered, he asked me today to come with some proof of evolution, saying that the baby we're expecting in November wouldn't be half human, half-monkey, so how could evolution exist?

In fact, now I think about it, he has brought the conversation to a close every time, no doubt bored of speaking to me. Don't suppose they get many chances to do that. Quite proud of that actually.

purlieu

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 04, 2007, 12:24:26 AM
How well, eh?
He hasn't hit me yet.
I forgot to mention he's quite violent too.

Purlieu likes a pretty gal,
With hair in flowing locks,
He also goes for gents as well
And their veiny, sweaty cocks.

P K Duck

These are lovely snippets of people's friendships, I can really picture some of the people described, and now one of their cocks, too.


I'd say it is emminently possible to respect the embodiment of your mortal nemesis, but that's not quite the same thing as liking them.

That said, I used to share a place in London with a power-dressing, stone-hearted, homeless-taunting commodities broker back in the days when ladies were still quite a novelty in her field of corporate rampage.

After months of arguing about globalism, not helped by the fact that I was fairly new to the ideas, one Sunday we got into a calmer discussion about the possibility of the US dollar collapsing. Turns out she was more scared of it happening than I was of anything she'd been up to in the City, so we sat down and tried to come up with an alternative global economy that wasn't based on either currency or the usual metals. In about three hours, with her economic expertise at fucking people over, we'd eliminated many of my fluffy-happy know-nothing plans, as she'd just sit there in her expensive casual wear wrinkling her nose and go: "No, see, if it was like that, all I'd have to do is such-and-such and we'd be right back here again..." The few she couldn't think of a way to exploit I noted down, and am still trying to pick through the practicalities to this day.

After that we still argued, but we got on a whole lot better, so yeah, I think it is possible to like someone who fundamentally believes something very different, even if it is a big difference like politics.

purlieu

Quote from: purlieu on June 04, 2007, 04:05:42 PM
Purlieu likes a pretty gal,
With hair in flowing locks,
He also goes for gents as well
And their veiny, sweaty cocks.
Haha, thank you, Aubrey Barkus.  If that really is your name.

samadriel

Quote from: Al Tha Funkee Homosapien on June 04, 2007, 09:41:35 AM
A bit like a kiwi George W Bush then?

Engaged in the 'Wer en Tirrorusm'!

*is racist nationalistic*

Quote from: daisy11I'd pop Aesop's Fables, Arabian Nights, and Hans Christian Andersen's Fairy Tales into my handbag, sit beside him and read these during break, perhaps it will click then. Could take a month or so but it's worth a try.
But you have to interject occasionally with, say, "My god, did you know that Zeus granted the frogs a log for a king?  A log!  Then when they complained, he sent a stork, who ate them all!  Truly, sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone.  Which is your favourite of Aesop's lessons?"

Quote from: Waking LifeOn saying that though, I had a flatmate for two years who was very conservative.  To be honest, he didn't have much interest in politics and a lot of his views were contradictory so maybe that's why it never bothered me.  When we got drunk in the flat our discussions would veer towards politics but we we were always accepting of the differences in our opinion and we were great friends.  What was strange about him though was that all of his friends were lefties.
Ignorance weighs heavily on my ability to get along with a 'political opposite' -- if I think they're smart enough to know better, I may not be able to tolerate them, but if they're just a bit thick and don't mean any harm, I don't mind.


purlieu

Quote from: purlieu on June 03, 2007, 10:52:27 PM
My housemate doesn't like Muslims, Jews and admitted with some surprise that "some Scots are alright, actually", and says any sort of homosexual feeling is "not right" and "not natural" (despite denying being homophobic or racist), yet he's one of my closest friends.  He seems to tolerate my bisexuality quite well, mind...
Furthermore, he really likes the London Olympics logo.


Little Hoover


Pseudopath

Quote from: Little Hoover on June 06, 2007, 03:10:27 PM
I'm a christian and I like most of you.

Even if we're not going to heaven? Thanks for putting up with us heathens until the rapture. Christians are nice like that.

Hank_Kingsley

Quote from: Little Hoover on June 06, 2007, 03:10:27 PM
I'm a christian and I like most of you.

Me too, and politically i'm probably far more rightwing (well, libertarian..) than most of you. Still, I think you're an interesting & funny bunch with cracking taste in music, films & comedy.

SetToStun

Any chance you'll be putting in a good word for me with the Big Fella? Only I can't be arsed with being a nice person, but I'd really like to be saved from eternal damnation, if possible. Cheers.

Quote from: Hank_Kingsley on June 06, 2007, 06:18:06 PM
Me too, and politically i'm probably far more rightwing (well, libertarian..) than most of you. Still, I think you're an interesting & funny bunch with cracking taste in music, films & comedy.

This place doesn't seem typically bleeding heart liberal. Many 'whores, including myself, seem to err on the side of Libertarianism, or at least a certain lefty type of Libertarianism.