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Safari 3 (Mac & Windows)

Started by Jim Jarmusch, June 11, 2007, 07:58:42 PM

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Jim Jarmusch

The fastest web browser on any platform, Safari loads pages up to 2 times faster than Internet Explorer 7 and up to 1.6 times faster than Firefox 2.

Announced in the last hour at WWC 2007. Beta available for download.

http://www.apple.com/safari/

Pseudopath

Hello, Steve Jobs!

I think I'll stick to Firefox, thanks. I'd rather my webpages rendered correctly and Javascript worked properly than save a couple of nanoseconds on each page load.

Jim Jarmusch

I'm using it now, its fantastic. watch the demo for yourself.

Firefox sucks. I only used it for incremental find. Safari includes it and does a better job.

Pseudopath

Well, good for you. I hope that when you inevitably find a popular website which doesn't render properly, you're able to persuade the webmaster to redesign his site for your minority browser.

Baxter

I'd keep using it if there were any way to stop it from automatically smoothing all displayed fonts, force it to open new windows in a new tab, and stop reverting to a 3:4 aspect ratio on my wide-screen after i have just maximised it and toggled it to minimised and back again.

It's too freaky I tells ya!

Hugo Rune

Those speed results are meaningless.

What, exactly, is meant by "HTML Performance"? What was the script that was run to test "JavaScript Performance"?

And what sort of mentalist buys an iMac, installs Windows XP on it and then browses the web with Safari?

It's akin to buying a Roller, replacing the interior with some plastic garden furniture and then driving it up the right-hand side of the road (in the UK).

Mind boggling!

jutl

I've had my windows installation of the beta crash twice in one evening. Oddly both times were on the Apple site.

katzenjammer

heh, I nominate this for tag of the week

QuoteYou can't polish a turd but you can give it a brushed metal interface

Well done whoever wrote that

Jim Jarmusch

Quote from: katzenjammer on June 12, 2007, 08:59:06 AM
heh, I nominate this for tag of the week

Well done whoever wrote that

It's inaccurate. Safari 3 or Leopard has the brushed metal look.

Neither does my modified Tiger OS.

no_offenc

I downloaded it yesterday and found that it didn't pick up on middle clicking, nor the back/forward buttons on my mouse.  The font smoothing is okay, though something I'm not really used to, and reminds me of using my ex's iMac back around 5 years ago or so (she being something of a Mac zealot, and pitying me for being a then-Windows 98 user).  Though it's fast, I still much prefer Opera, though that may have as much to do with me being used to it from the past 5+ years as it has anything else.  Also the brushed metal look clashes totally with my rather minimalist black/white/blue XP theme.  If there was a way of changing it then I may be more interested.

Suttonpubcrawl

It doesn't work in Windows 2000 so it can fuck off!

Dusty Gozongas

Eeek. It's a bit crashy at the mo, although betas often do that.

The main thing I notice is how un-customisable it is.  Give me a browser that allows me to block scripts and ads anyday (and decent cookie management for that matter).  In fact the Mac lovers I know opt for Firefox or Opera for these very reasons and more.

I suspect it's part of a bigger plan though... I'll wager that sooner or later they start forcing iTunes with the installer, same as what happens with Quicktime these days.


Pseudopath

Quote from: Dusty Gozongas on June 12, 2007, 03:35:56 PMIn fact the Mac lovers I know opt for Firefox or Opera for these very reasons and more.

I think the only reason Safari has a 5% share of the browser market is because new Mac users have to fire it up to visit www.getfirefox.com

terminallyrelaxed

I'm talking Mac here. Firefox is fucking appalling. Slow, all plugins need manual install, crap functionality. Been using Camino (Mozilla 'optimised' for Mac, does everything right out of the box) for yonks instead of it, but still use Safari whenever possible (company website uses SQL and only works in an old Firefox version, blame the developers).
Baxter I genuinely don't understand why PCs still don't smooth fonts, its like reading the splash screen from a ZX-81, but hey, each to their own. Although I will say that on Macs to open in a new tab the default is Apple(Cmd)-click, keyboard shortcuts are a fact of Mac life, so it must be possible to configure a convenient button on your mouse. The screen-resizing issue doesn't happen on macs, it remembers screen dimensions between maximized and minimized.

The windows launch is driven by the fact that the iPhone comes out in a couple of weeks, and will be compatible with web 2.0 functionality. Its essentially so people can develop and or test that their existing website is going to work for iPhone users, and to develop services for iPhone users. Think about it, the iPhone is going to be ridiculously expensive, and they're still going to sell a hat-full of them, and all those overpaid fashion-gadget monkeys will have money to burn on their 3G network.

Can someone link me to a website that doesn't work in Safari? I've been using the internet since forever and I'd really like to see one. I don't know why I've been left out seeing as its obviously such a massive problem, is it non-functionality that you have to pay for or something? The very first iterations of Safari, on OS 10.2, were a bit flakey, but that was 5 years ago, and Apple got round it by letting it emulate any browser technology, and letting you choose which one.

Dusty Gozongas

Quote from: terminallyrelaxed on June 12, 2007, 04:17:11 PMI genuinely don't understand why PCs still don't smooth fonts

Right-click desktop > Appearance > Effects ...

And IE7 does it by default even if you haven't got that one set system wide.

Pseudopath

Quote from: terminallyrelaxed on June 12, 2007, 04:17:11 PMCan someone link me to a website that doesn't work in Safari?

Most Google online applications (Calendar, Analytics, Pages, etc.) are JavaScript and AJAX-heavy and seem to confuse the hell out of poor Safari (although I've no idea if this is fixed in version 3.0). Obviously you'd need to create a Google account and log in to test this:

http://www.google.com/calendar
http://pages.google.com
http://www.google.com/analytics

Blumf

If the Win versions of QuickTime player and iTunes are anything to go by, this will be the shittest web browser ever.

Can't speak for Apple's software on the Mac itself but all their Windows stuff I've used is intrusive, buggy and just plain awkward to use.

terminallyrelaxed

Nope, sorry, they all work fine for me - I'd do screenshots for you but I can't be arsed. I am however running the 3 Beta so that might have been fixed in this. I'll try when I get home as I haven't updated that one yet.

terminallyrelaxed

Running Safari 2.0.4 at home, those pages still seem fine to me...

ccab

Quote from: Blumf on June 12, 2007, 04:54:44 PM
If the Win versions of QuickTime player and iTunes are anything to go by, this will be the shittest web browser ever.

Can't speak for Apple's software on the Mac itself but all their Windows stuff I've used is intrusive, buggy and just plain awkward to use.

Ditto. But I'd go further and say they're just as wretched in their native environment on Macs. If anyone seriously thinks Safari stands any sort of chance of nibbling into IE or Firefox, or even Opera's share of the market with this ugly and highly limited toy, you're crackers.

Incidentally, regarding font smoothing, MS's Cleartype is the best option available under any platform.

hymen spaz

Quote from: Pseudopath on June 12, 2007, 04:51:04 PM
Most Google online applications (Calendar, Analytics, Pages, etc.) are JavaScript and AJAX-heavy and seem to confuse the hell out of poor Safari (although I've no idea if this is fixed in version 3.0). Obviously you'd need to create a Google account and log in to test this:

http://www.google.com/calendar
http://pages.google.com
http://www.google.com/analytics

I'm not sure if this is what you mean by not working but this is one is a bit shite....

http://www.goape.co.uk/ContentHome.aspx

greencalx

Quote from: terminallyrelaxed on June 12, 2007, 04:17:11 PM
I'm talking Mac here. Firefox is fucking appalling.

Agreed - Firefox is great on Linux and Windows, shite on a Mac.  Safari feels more fluid, somehow - even though I think its raw page-load times are longer than on other browsers.

Quote
Can someone link me to a website that doesn't work in Safari?

Errr, no need - you're already here (at least in the default skin).  Click on the '+'/'-' button next to the 'Home' 'Logout' set of buttons.  A panel will disappear.  On Firefox, the middle column resizes automatically too.  On Safari, you have to reload the page.  Ok, not major, but irritating nonetheless.  More seriously, I've had e-commerce sites fail in the past.

greencalx


hymen spaz


Tried opening projectvoyeur.com and it couldn't handle it, so that's that uninstalled.

Dusty Gozongas

#25
Keep an eye out for security bugs.  They're coming thick and fast....

http://larholm.com/2007/06/12/safari-for-windows-0day-exploit-in-2-hours/
http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=5250
http://erratasec.blogspot.com/2007/06/niiiice.html

[edit] It's also failing to import my firefox bookmarks.html (from both the standard location and from a daily backup). Anybody else noticing this? It might work with IE favourites but I'm loathe to check, what with them being an olde and decaying mess here.

[edit the second] Yuk! You can only resize with the titlebar and that dragbar at the bottom-right. Is this sort of behaviour de rigueur on a mac? I'm writing an angry letter to my MP! ;o)

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Dusty Gozongas on June 12, 2007, 04:32:21 PM
Right-click desktop > Appearance > Effects ...
Ooh, I never really thought about fonts before so I didn't know about this, but it does look nicer. Thanks.

Pseudopath

Ha ha! I know it's a beta and everything, but it looks like Apple have really dropped a bollock on this one:

Regional Language Settings fun:

http://www.theregister.com/2007/06/12/safar_crashing_experience/

Safari ignores bold text:

http://www.theregister.com/2007/06/13/safari_cant_see_bold/

and the previously-mentioned bugs galore:

http://www.theregister.com/2007/06/12/safari_security_bugs/

Anyone would think Apple are trying to make Windows machines look as flaky and insecure as their fanboys.


niat

Quote from: Blumf on June 12, 2007, 04:54:44 PM
If the Win versions of QuickTime player and iTunes are anything to go by, this will be the shittest web browser ever.

Can't speak for Apple's software on the Mac itself but all their Windows stuff I've used is intrusive, buggy and just plain awkward to use.

I've never had any problems with iTunes on a PC, apart from it being massive,  but QuickTime is horrendous, and you can't use iTunes without it.

Blumf

Quote from: niat on June 13, 2007, 03:06:47 PM
I've never had any problems with iTunes on a PC, apart from it being massive,  but QuickTime is horrendous, and you can't use iTunes without it.

Well, just upgraded it (or rather my g/f did, her iPod), took ages to download, required a reboot (!?) and left all the shortcuts to it pointing at nothing.