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TONIGHT: Les Dawsons' Lost Diaries

Started by Neil, April 03, 2004, 07:30:29 PM

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Neil

Don't agree with this kind of thing ethically but I'll certainly be tuning in:

21:10  Les Dawson's Lost Diaries
[subtitles]  
A fascinating insight into the private world of one of Britain's most successful and respected comedians.


Neil

Jesus Christ, that Ted Robbins voice-over on the diary bits was extremely irritating.  How thick do Channel 4 think we all are?!  I was running in and out of the room to fiddle with capture stuff so I missed lots of bits...did they imply at the end that he wasn't popular when he died?  Cause I remember him being hugely popular just before his death, hardly swept away with the rest of the old guard by Ben Elton, as they like to imply!

I was thinking the same thing. The last thing I remember him in/on was a documentary made about him a few months before he died. Some of the footage used tonight was from that film, the clips showing his 'nice things` and the bit of him sat at the piano telling the tale about how the piano stuff came about.
The documentary I'm referring to was done, not as a 'Where are they now?` piece but as a hugely popular personality which people had a great interest in.

kalaa rider

I found it to be quite a heartening account of his comedic struggles. A couple of years back Challenge TV were running Blankety Blank almost daily and I remember being awestruck at his witty rejoinders. He had such a playful and imaginative way with words. I recall laughing hysterically at a quip in which he proclaimed he hadn't seen prizes like those on offer 'Since the BBC had a fire salvage.'

Another comparison he made was that he hadn't seen such prizes 'Since the scouts disbanded.' He was so very funny on those shows and they really stand the test of time.

I also caught some Les Dawson Shows on Granada Plus a while back and those too are forged with some delightfully woven brilliance. One bit that stuck in my mind was a sketch set in a cinema in which he's dragged up and gossiping with another woman and they chance upon the subject of the man working at the back of the cinema... (to paraphrase)

- "He's a projectionist."
- "Yeah he's a big lad."

The man was a true original wit. I'm glad he has a legacy modern-day auteurs seek to sensationalise with the use of rostrum filmed 'secret' diary revelations.

dan dirty ape

I'm sick to death of these 'tears of a clown' type portrayals of comedians. Just bung on some clips of him telling jokes for fuck's sake. Does this go along with the 'dark' comedy thing, now all new comedy has to be about cancer and whatnot, and all old comedy has to be documented in terms of the subject's personal unhappiness?

And that voiceover sounded more like Michael Parkinson.

Ben Ordinary

I found it really predictable, and the diary entries aside the same as every other fucking documentary that seems to be made about dead comedians these days. I watched it just to see some classic Les (as opposed to the new stuff. Moving on...) and after two insanely close commerical breaks and half the running time, it finally played some. And I cracked up at them all.

In particular I found the "expert of summat or other" the amusingly named DC Lee (or was it Brix E Smith. Summat like anyroad) banging on about how Les lied in interviews about going to Paris as a young man and various other boring incidences. I know the man was troubled and frequently depressed but the programme never seemed at any point like a celebration of a comic I loved as a kid and still love to this day.

Suppose its at this point I should make the point of there being no DVD releases of Dawson's finer hours despite him being a bona fide "national treasure" but it seems like such an obvious thing to say, its hardly worth bothering.

Neil

Very good point about the "tears of a clown" way of portraying comedians these days.  There always has to be some dark past doesn't there?  I'm sure most of the time they're just emphasising any unhappy moments the comedians may have had to build up a contrast, "Look!!  They told jokes, but they were sad in real life!!  Do you see?!"  

This does remind me though...what is the deal with so many comedians wanting to go into acting, there does seem to be a fair few of them.  Do they get to a certain stage and think "I want to be taken seriously!"  Or is this just another myth?  I can certainly think of a fair few, Peter Sellers, Peter Cook, Dudley Moore, Lee Evans, Les Dawson as mentioned in that show etc.

hands cold, liver warm

The clips were great but the overall documentary was predictably sensationalist. Why were the diaries referred to as 'lost' in the title. They weren't lost at all, they just hadn't been made the centre of a channel 4 documentary before.

The documentary showed that Dawson was insecure, work obsessed and depressive. However they showed us only a small part of his diary and they didn't even try to explain the motives behind why he wrote it in the first place. He can't that been that miserable, he had an enormously successful later half to his career, was happily married for 30 years, had plenty of friends who all said good things and he produced seemingly well-rounded and happy children. That hardly strikes me as the Hancock-esque character that the show was trying to make him out to be.  The show didn't go into his joy of performing shows and getting laughs, his contented home-life or his big fat bank balance that allowed him to live out most oof his dreams.

Also the nature of the diary itself wasn't analysed. Perhaps he used the diary as some form of therapy, where he expressed all of this frustrations and worries. If that was the case, he wouldn't need to write down all of the joys and successes. So the diary would be inherently biased towards the bad things.

Why is that unhappiness experienced by comedians is interpreted as a greater suffering than that experienced by normal people? Did Dawson have a more miserable life than all those people he left behind in working class Salford? Bollocks he did.

butnut

Quote from: "Neil"This does remind me though...what is the deal with so many comedians wanting to go into acting, there does seem to be a fair few of them.  Do they get to a certain stage and think "I want to be taken seriously!"  Or is this just another myth?  I can certainly think of a fair few, Peter Sellers, Peter Cook, Dudley Moore, Lee Evans, Les Dawson as mentioned in that show etc.

And Coogan now too, and Izzard. I wonder if this has something to do with another myth that comedy is just a young (wo)man's game. And once you get into your 40s, you stop being funny, and have to go 'straight'.

Silver SurferGhost

You should always take these things with a pinch of salt.
I remember a Radio Four interview Les did with Dr Anthony Clare a year or two  before he died,
"In The Psychiatrist's Chair" (or something like) was the series.
They may have caught him on an off day of course (and psychiatrist's questions are as leading as they wish to make them),
but it could be said he revealed himself to be largely melancholic and dissatisfied with his career.
Although you could just as convincingly argue that he was simply a perfectionist who never quite managed
to live up to the high standards he set for himself.

It's all a matter of how something is presented to you and how you then wish to perceive it.
Which brings us to the documentary.

It's Channel Four, and with their recent remit it's going to be sensationalist,
and they've got to have a shocking revelation for every ad break.
Quote from: "Ben Ordinary"In particular I found the "expert of summat or other" the amusingly named DC Lee
(or was it Brix E Smith. Summat like anyroad) banging on about how Les lied in interviews
about going to Paris as a young man and various other boring incidences.
That would be CP Lee, former leader of Alberto Y Lost Trios Paranoias
(if you're that interested you can look them up on the All Music Guide),
and now a Doctor of Whatnot at Salford University. Cultural History I thinks.
He's written a few books about Bob Dylan and the like, anyroad.
I think he was a little kinder than you've made him out to be there as well.
As I imagine you'll know,
his contribution was probably whittled down from an interview that may have lasted anything up to an hour.
Presentation again y'see.
No, I don't know him personally, but we do have a mutual friend.

I'd be interested to know if those were Les's actual diaries or mock-ups that we saw,
if  they were then they don't refute the various "revelations".
In reality, people are always bigging themselves up and making the most of their adventures.
So what kind of shocking revelation is that?
I'd personally be more worried if the diaries hadn't contained truer versions of any verbal embroidery of the truth.
Although if you managed to catch a glimpse of some of the other entries above or below
as I did once or twice, it became obvious just how selective they were being...

I dare say he was a man of highs and lows, just like all of us.
I don't presume to really know, and I don't imagine an hour-long TV show with ratings to pander to
is going to make me much the wiser.

It could have been worse though,
they could have interviewed Ben Elton so that he could claim to have always admired him.
.

Sorry

Now, I'm posting this before having read the thread, so I'll no doubt look an idiot, but...

I'm fed up with all these "tragic clown" type proflies of comedians.  Peter Cook, Hancock, Tommy Cooper, Les Dawson, John Cleese, they're nearly all bloody alcoholic depressants if we believed Channel 4.  And to be fair, they probably are, it's just such a lazy way of presenting things.

EDIT: Yup, sure do look stupid now.

Ambient Sheep

Quote from: "Silver SurferGhost"That would be CP Lee, former leader of Alberto Y Lost Trios Paranoias
No!!!  BLOODY HELL!!!

Quote...and now a Doctor of Whatnot at Salford University. Cultural History I thinks.
Correct.  I wasn't much impressed by his contributions, but as you say I suspect he was heavily edited to support the point-of-view they wanted.

Silver SurferGhost

Quote from: "Ambient Sheep"
Quote from: "Silver SurferGhost"That would be CP Lee, former leader of Alberto Y Lost Trios Paranoias
No!!!  BLOODY HELL!!!
Yeah....I'd never have recognised him myself without the name and a vague idea of what he was up to these days.
Last time I saw him (from a distance I might add, he's not my rock star mate or owt) he had hair down to his armpits!

It's a long journey from Snuff Rock and hanging out with The Sex Pistols to being a talking head
in a Channel Four exploitation doc.
...or maybe not, eh?
.