Baynham Guardian article about Dark Comedy

[alan strang]

Guardian article by Peter Baynham:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1186447,00.html

Dead funny

British comedy is charged with tackling unsuitable subjects. But why shouldn't humour have its say?

Peter Baynham
Tuesday April 6, 2004
The Guardian

What the hell was Julia Davis thinking when she sat down to write her BBC2 comedy series Nighty Night? MS isn't funny. Cancer isn't funny. And next, apparently, there's going to be a cartoon about vivisection. Honestly, is nothing too sick for these people?

In 2001 my father finally succumbed to the bone cancer that had tortured him for seven years. His last weeks were a terrible, black icing on the cake, the agony, the slow twisting, thinning and snapping of his skeleton. Everything fell apart. His skin bloated and split; his lungs filled with fluid. The cancer and the morphine moved in for a final battle, with little care for Philip Baynham. This stuff was the mathematical opposite of funny. The darkest times were when his mind started to go, like the day this lovely, gentle man howled and swore at my sister simply for changing the TV channel. My stepmother, trying to calm him, asked him what he wanted. His response? "Flick my balls." Not funny. Oh no.

Hang on. Did you smile then? Or even laugh? But it's not funny. A dying, babbling man, asking his horrified wife to tap his testicles? In front of his nieces? I can laugh. I'm allowed to. But you mustn't. Cancer isn't a suitable subject for comedy.

And don't laugh when I tell you that during this dreadful time, I was woken in the middle of one night by an old, bald woman in the ward opposite, going up and down on her whirring electric bed, muttering: "I keep pressing the bloody button, but the nurse won't come!" Or that the chemo wig salon next to the terminal ward was called Wills. Or that dad, on one of his last nights on Earth, released a fart so unbelievably awful I wondered if he might be trying to take me with him. Or that the timeshare salesman I befriended in the hospice, soon to die of leukaemia, still couldn't resist trying to flog me part ownership of a villa in southern Spain. Nope. Not funny.

Even in my father's last, terrible hours, as his family gathered close and held him tight as he slid down the tunnel, I glanced up to see my younger brother standing at the end of the bed, backlit by the sunshine, arms outstretched in a t'ai chi pose. He was sending love and good chi to my father, but all I could think was: "Don't open your eyes now, dad, or you'll think Jesus has come to get you." I smiled, went back to crying. Dad died.

No subject is unsuitable for comedy. In life, comedy occurs naturally, as it should, in the most appalling of circumstances. The horror is turned up to 11, then suddenly somebody seems to have grabbed the snake that has us cornered, and dangled it by the tail to show how stupid it can look, even at its most threatening. And if the snake escapes and takes us all in the end, we had a moment of relief, didn't we? People complain that joking about serious subjects is "making light" of them. Isn't that a good idea? Comedy lets the air out of the bully's tyres.

I 've just made an animation series, I am Not an Animal, about a group of talking creatures created in a vivisection laboratory. Although the setting is merely a backdrop for the first episode and the series thereafter isn't particularly dark, that hasn't prevented an early reaction from some, along the old lines of: "This isn't a suitable subject for comedy."

But what does that mean? Why shouldn't humour have its say? It's fascinating that the grimmest subjects can be considered suitable for the limpest dramas or tackiest documentaries because they supposedly "highlight" issues. Emmerdale can feature a plane crash in order to openly kill off the cast because there's a need for fresh blood. So when a frenzied mob in the Welsh valleys attacks the house of a paediatrician, why shouldn't Brass Eye grab a baseball bat and jump in there too?

I read an article a while back which suggested that the people who write all this supposedly "dark" comedy are dark types themselves: cynical, miserable old goths who see the world as an awful place, while those responsible for My Family or Last of the Summer Wine skip through meadows singing about how wonderful life is before falling backwards, giggling, arms flailing, into a village pond. My experience is different. Sorry to destroy the fantasies of a certain kind of troubled man out there drawn to her disgusting alter ego Jill, but Julia Davis is a lovely, sweet, slightly unworldly person much more likely to plunge into a pond than whatever wheezing old hack wrote Mad About Alice. I'll probably die for saying this, but Chris Morris, the twisted sicko behind Brass Eye, is equally delightful.

Laugh at cancer. Laugh at MS. Laugh - respectfully - at my dad demanding his testes be used for a last game of snooker. He would have found it hilarious. Laugh at the scientist who last week offered his support for I am Not an Animal, offering us a visit to go and see how happy his animals were. Thank you very much Professor Morton, but that strikes me as about as sensible as the makers of Life is Beautiful accepting a dinner invite from the Nazi party.


· Peter Baynham is the writer and director of I am Not an Animal, which starts in May on BBC2

A couple of things I feel I must add...

"MS isn't funny. Cancer isn't funny."

The above isn't the problem. The problem is Nighty Night isn't funny. Or particularly well-written come to that. It's the wrong argument. "But why shouldn't humour have its say"? - it certainly should, but only if that humour is good enough to warrant it. Otherwise you may as well write a dissertation defending schoolboy gags about starving Ethiopeans, Joey Deacon's spazzy voice and bummers dying of AIDS.

"So when a frenzied mob in the Welsh valleys attacks the house of a paediatrician, why shouldn't Brass Eye grab a baseball bat and jump in there too?"

Shame it only managed to find its baseball bat about a year after much better and less ill-considered counter-attacks had been unleashed. Again, the wrong argument.

"I read an article a while back which suggested that the people who write all this supposedly "dark" comedy are dark types themselves: cynical, miserable old goths who see the world as an awful place"

That's odd, because all the articles I've read about Dark Comedy are out to suggest it's some fantastic new genre which should be encouraged and nurtured because it's so much better than those crappy 'safe' Terry & June sitcoms from the 70s. Does anyone out there really believe the writers are "miserable old goths", sitting amidst candles and Joy Division CDs scratching at their arms? C'mon!

'Cynical', certainly - in their hope that the country is filled with enough people who'll be fooled by the BBC press machine's 'Bad taste has never felt so good' by-line and won't want to feel left out. But that's just a salesman thing. Nothing to do with artistic creativity.

"Julia Davis is a lovely, sweet, slightly unworldly person much more likely to plunge into a pond than whatever wheezing old hack wrote Mad About Alice. I'll probably die for saying this, but Chris Morris, the twisted sicko behind Brass Eye, is equally delightful."

Ho, yes. Chris will shortly phone you up and squeal "You little bastard! I've spent years cultivating this 'unhinged genius' persona - how dare you mess it all up by saying I'm nice!"

"Laugh at cancer. Laugh at MS. Laugh - respectfully - at my dad demanding his testes be used for a last game of snooker."

Very sad to hear that Baynham snr has died. But why use that scenario to patronise people who purportedly 'don't understand'  Dark Comedy - thereby fuelling the idea that it's a revolutionary device in the first place? In fact, if anything, It just reminded me of that old live Billy Conolly routine about his own father, during the months leading up to his death, swearing himself hoarse at everyone after having had a stroke. A fantastic cathartic comedy moment, unfettered by any need to explain its 'validity' or bracket it as part of a non-existant genre.

But then again it was a funny routine to begin with.

[Mr Flunchy]

What a great article, cheers for putting that up.

[butnut]

Hmm, not sure what to make of this. He's right, as in anything has the potential to be funny, but he does seem to like 'Nighy Night' a bit too much.

I do like the 'I'm going to get into trouble for saying this' about Morris bit though. Having said that, we all knew he was a lovely chap anyway.

[Jemble Fred]

It is a real shame that the Nighty Night argument rather ruins his main point, because otherwise that's a classic piece of writing, and very true. If people were still offended by these things, we'd be quoting this piece for years. But now sick gags are the norm, all Baynham's well-thought-out words are a bit pointless, really. Perhaps he'll be sticking up for Reality TV style comedy shows next.

[chand]

He's right to point out that it's ludicrous to say 'Cancer isn't funny' as a condemnation of using such a topic for jokes. Suicide isn't funny either, but it doesn't stop me loving the Python sketch where people are falling past the window and they make bets on who's next.

As has been said, the problem is that Nighty Night is just poor. From the one episode I saw, anyway.

[bill hicks]

But he doesn't actually say Nighty Night is funny does he? He just says that Alison Graham and the Daily Mail guffing on about how we're not supposed to laugh at it (although Alison Graham is a weird one. It'sb bad taste and horrible, but very good so we mustn't laugh and just appreciate it or something) is so very very wrong.

Which we all agree with surely?

You and I may not find Nighty Night funny, but it has every right to make the jokes it does.

Great article.

[Clarky Cat]

It is a real shame that the Nighty Night argument rather ruins his main point, because otherwise that's a classic piece of writing, and very true. If people were still offended by these things, we'd be quoting this piece for years. But now sick gags are the norm, all Baynham's well-thought-out words are a bit pointless, really. Perhaps he'll be sticking up for Reality TV style comedy shows next.

I don't think his mentioning Nighty Night ruins his point at all. In fact I don't think he actually says in the article that the programme is any good or not. All he is saying is that people claiming the programme is crap because it deals with these issues are wrong. I personally think Nighty Night is, well ... just boring. But that's got nothing to do with the subject matter.

Also I don't think sick gags are the norm. For every sick comedy programme there are at least two safe comedies. And that's not including all the repeats of safe comedies.

I think people are just a bit more confident about doing 'sick' comedy, so we're are seeing more of it.

I get the impression that the article was triggered, in part, by the whole vivisection reaction to I Am Not An Animal. And this reaction is from people who almost certainly have not seen any of the programme yet. So they are basically saying it's wrong to use this subject matter regardless of the way it's used and the context.

[Jemble Fred]

Yes, my post wasn't too clear. But the point is he shouldn't have mentioned Nighty Night at all, and just referred to his own show.

Nighty Night isn't very good. If he likes it, he should have made that clear. If he doesn't like it (and obviously isn't going to offend a pal by saying so in the national media) then he shouldn't have mentioned it at all.

I still think that by even mentioning a show that gives 'dark' humour a bad name, he was undermining his argument somewhat.

[benthalo]

Nighty Night is from the same production house as I Am Not An Animal, so it's possible he was biting his lip or he loves it. Either way, it's a weak reference point.

[theantileague]

Yes, my post wasn't too clear. But the point is he shouldn't have mentioned Nighty Night at all, and just referred to his own show.

Nighty Night isn't very good. If he likes it, he should have made that clear. If he doesn't like it (and obviously isn't going to offend a pal by saying so in the national media) then he shouldn't have mentioned it at all.

I still think that by even mentioning a show that gives 'dark' humour a bad name, he was undermining his argument somewhat.

The point is that he was mentioning nighty night because it is an example of dark comedy that is around at the moment and therefore that is the example that people will most likely be watching
He could have mentioned stuff like brass eye or Jam more often but  with nothing heard from them for the last few years he wouldn't have got the same reaction to them than to something that is been broadcast now/has just finished been shown.

[Jemble Fred]

I think I understand what you mean, obviously it's a show that's on now. Doesn't alter anything I said really mate. It can only be counter-productive to use such a bad example (no matter how topical) in an argument. It's like someone arguing, quite rightly, that eating lots of fibre is good for you, and then suggesting you eat tree bark. Fashionable tree bark.

(Edited to remove vaguely bitchy spelling pedantry. But still.)

[alan strang]

I get the impression that the article was triggered, in part, by the whole vivisection reaction to I Am Not An Animal. And this reaction is from people who almost certainly have not seen any of the programme yet. So they are basically saying it's wrong to use this subject matter regardless of the way it's used and the context.

Sure, but there are always going to be small yet over-vocal pockets of society who object to any show which goes against their particular outlook on life. From the anti-smoking lobby complaining about some character on Eastenders with a fag in his gob, to the B'Nai Brith being incensed about how there aren't enough Jewish characters in Star Wars. It just seems a curiously out-of-date argument to yield such a passionate piece of writing. Not that it's really an argument so much as a means to spicing up a puff piece for his new TV show (and another TV show written by his mate).

A better argument would have been to highlight who turned the whole 'anti-vivisection lobby attacks new comedy show' thing into a story in the first place. Did they contact the papers and say 'We're not happy' to drum up support for their cause? Did the papers contact them and say 'look at this' in an attempt to shit-stir a story into action? Or did the BBC or Baby Cow arrange the whole thing themselves as a publicity tactic to ensure that people will tune in?

If it's the latter then Peter Baynham can stick his article and his cartoon up his bum. Hope it isn't though.

Speaking of which, does anyone remember Richard Adams' 'The Plague Dogs'? They could talk n'all!

[Entropy Balsmalch]

Excellent opinions I shall now pass off as my own.

Cheers Mr Baynham.

[Purple Tentacle]

THE PLAGUE DOGS!!

Christ, that was its name, I've been trying to remember the name of that book for ages.

Christ it was depressing.



Anyway, has there actually BEEN an outcry over "Nighty Night"'s wacky sicko-ocity? I haven't heard of one, the only critisisms I've heard of it is that its just shite, despite the MS gross-out.

Is this just following in the vein of the continuity announcers being trained to say "ooooh! It's THAT time of the week again! It's sooo sick, you have to watch! Nighty Night!"? Insisting that middle England has been shaken to its core, rather than looking all unimpressed, a bit like an elderly matron dismissing a flasher's cock at a fete.

Or one of dekion's dull pieces of dullness.



What a shame to hear that that nice man in the Big Spoon Baby Balloon incident is dead though.

[Rats]

I agree with all of that. I was getting a bit tired of all the "oh, it's so dark" brigade. I know there's a bunch of trendies being consiously dark in comedy at the moment because they think it's new and exciting but just ignore it, you don't have to make everything black and white and dismiss all black comedy, that's just racist.

[weekender]

you don't have to make everything black and white and dismiss all black comedy, that's just racist.

That wasn't funny, so I thought I'd take issue with it and raise another point.  Name the last funny black person you saw*.

*and I don't mean some n**ger getting beaten up in Newcastle, before you try and think along those lines.  Or any black with a chin, we all know that's abnormal and therefore funny to you.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I agree with that article. My own opinion, and many will argue with this, is that you either accept that all subjects can be used for comedy, or you think that no subjects should be used for comedy. I have no problem with people who don't like anything that makes fun of others, it's the wishy-washy people in the middle who complain about a paedo joke or a disease joke whilst laughing at Bernard Manning's 'racist' gags that I don't like. Or the people who will laugh at Chris Morris but take offence at someone using a racial stereotype for a laugh.

At the end of the day, all comedy pokes fun at someone, and I'm sure that everyone has at some point heard a joke or seen something on a comedy show which hits a bit too close to the bone. It may be something simple like finding out you're losing your eyesight then seeing that blind guy on Last of the Summer Wine getting laughs aplenty from the coffin dodgers. People tend to only look at the 'big things' though, racism, death, disease and sex as being taboo.

[Rats]

Chris Rock, I haven't seen a funny black person since. In fact, richard pryor is the only other one I can think of off the top of my head. Maybe they just aren't funny like they aren't piedoffle. I saw richard blackwood on the telly the other night and he was unintentionally hillarious, he was doing one of those dole yoof shows like ali g skits and he sat there looking totally uninterested in this kid who'd come on to talk about job interviews, and he was going hmmmm, yeah, right, hmmmm then just repeating what the kid said back to him, throwing "basically" in between every word and then at the end he said "now here's some white girl with her cap on backwards doing a rap about what we've been discussing" I must have stood there for about half an hour watching it with my mouth open.

[El Unicornio, mang]

you don't have to make everything black and white and dismiss all black comedy, that's just racist.

That wasn't funny, so I thought I'd take issue with it and raise another point.  Name the last funny black person you saw*.

.

Just to save Rats some time

Edit: balls, too late

[weekender]

Yeah, sorry if you thought I was being a twat, but I genuinely can't think of that many blacks who are funny.  I'd add an earlier version of Eddie Murphy to Pryor, Rock and all Gollywogs*.

The point I now wish to make is that out of a lot of things that are purported to be 'comedy', only a fraction are actually *that* funny - trying to link back to the thread title of course.

*Gollywogs are now inherently funny because they're post-modern.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I laughed quite a lot at The Original Kings of Comedy, also I like Richard Pryor and Chris Rock, and Dave Chappelle does some funny stuff.

The worst black comedy show I ever saw was Martin Lawrence. Christ it was awful. Aside from his jokes all being along the lines of "Yi yi yi dawg...ah see someone lookin' middle Eastern at the airport, I'm gon' kick his sorry ass, aiighttt...." and other such ego-inflating crap, he also felt the need to do bits of 'philosophy' after each joke, such as: "You got a kid be misbehavin'...beat it's ass...(big round of applause)...you beat it's ass.....(more applause)....beat it's ass (round of applause)"....and also...."Ride this mo'fucka til the wheels fall off...(massive cheering)....ride this mo'fucker til the wheels fall off.....(more cheering)....ride this mo'fucker til the wheels fall off"

A lot of the other stuff I just find to be a bit too self congratulatory, it's all..."Yeah, so I be cruising along, stereo pumpin....yiiii, you know, you know....checkin' out those fine ass bitches....no mo'fucker gon' mess wit me...aiiightttt"

It also seems to be really fashionable these days for white middle class people to pretend they're really into black comedy, like they even understand half of the references

[weekender]

It also seems to be really fashionable these days for white middle class people to pretend they're really into black comedy, like they even understand half of the references

Sheet, you ruined my fun, d'awg.

I can't even type it so it sounds funny.  Just fuck off.

[Rats]

Yeah, that's something that I don't understand. Middle class white kids who listen to hip hop and only hip hop. I don't have a problem with them liking the music but they seem to buy into the whole lifestyle, change their clothes and stuff, buy the badges, how can these people relate to what is being said at all? I mean, I can't stand most hip hop but I have to explain to mangoliver what they're saying. What is a boo? What's a blunt? What am a glock? For christs sake.

[El Unicornio, mang]

It's just because it's considered cool, really. There is some good hip hop out there, but most of the commercial stuff, like 50 Cent and P.Diddy, is just utter shite. A run of the mill drumbeat, some music loops nicked off someone else and some bloke shouting about faggots, bitches and guns over the top of it. Kids love it, it's like sugar to them.

Back in my day it was bands like The Sex Pistols, The Clash...y'know...tunes
- Jack Dee

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Isn't the problem with 'dark' comedy that, to its target audience, it's just as safe and cosy as The Good Life et al ever were? Reinforcing shared beliefs, flattering audiences into thinking *they* understand the satire but the Disgusted-of-Tunbridge-Wells masses don't. That's certainly true of BES and Nighty Night. Those shows can't actually change anything.

If you reallyw ant to shake up the Monkey Dust-jaded viewers and give *them* nightmares, what on earth do you do? Hopefully someone will come along soon and make just such a show, but I can't imagine what it would be.

[Rats]

I expect this nathan barley thing will address all that. Maybe he'll be sitting watching his jam dvd in ping pong mode at the start.

[alan strang]

If you reallyw ant to shake up the Monkey Dust-jaded viewers and give *them* nightmares, what on earth do you do?

Personally I'd get Jim Davidson in to do all the voices for Monkey Dust. Just to watch Chortle burst and emit gasses.

Hopefully someone will come along soon and make just such a show, but I can't imagine what it would be.

As long as Jonathan Ross hates it it'll be a good start.  And if it offends Chris Morris and Peter Baynham (and all their apologists) then it'll be a total winner.

I expect this nathan barley thing will address all that. Maybe he'll be sitting watching his jam dvd in ping pong mode at the start.

I'm dreading this Nathan Barley thing now. Jokes about media twats made by media twats for media twats? You may as well get politicians to write political satire and expect anything approaching reality.

[Rats]

hehe yeah, I suppose we'll have to wait and see. Aren't you a media twat anymore then? You on the dole?

Edit: oops, sorry, I'm getting you mixed up with the other bloke.

[thatmuch]

nothing whoops sorry

[weekender]

Jokes about media twats made by media twats for media twats? You may as well get politicians to write political satire and expect anything approaching reality.

Didn't 'Yes Minister' employ politicians (or ex-politicians*) to help write political satire, or have I gone widely off the mark again?

*or just some bloody people involved in politics in some way.