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Baynham Guardian article about Dark Comedy

Started by alan strang, April 06, 2004, 08:23:03 AM

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Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Ricky Gervais got praised to the skies in yesterday's Evening Standard for his 'Politics' shit - a show which just *is* his old 11OCS persona, and unapologetically so. I sometimes think I've woken up in a nightmare world, where bit-part Iain Lee collaborators are the new gods. It's all so wrong. Four years ago, nobody suffered fuckwits like Gervais gladly. I'd *love* a comedy show that genuinely went against the grain again.

But everyone wants to be a part of it don't they? Comedy writers. So where on earth could such a show come from?  

Not from Nighty Night fans, that's for sure. And not from people who think they're clever just because they can get the word 'mong' past the Head Of Chuckling Amiably And Saying You Rotters at BBC3.

Robert Varley

Gosh, once again all these people telegraphing how unimpressed they are with 'dark' comedy.
I guess its one way of trying to be seen to be staying ahead of the pack - by dismissing something that some people like quite a lot.
I do wonder why this 'dark' comedy issue gets people so overwrought. If it isn't funny to you...that's ok.
But why do some people seem to bang on about how desperately unfunny it is to them so frequently? Ladies protesting too much and all that. I suppose if one sets one's self up as a litmus paper of comedy, pronouncing, yea it be funny or nay it be unfunny, you have to question what that person is trying to prove. Because clearly they need to see themselves as some sort of, I don't now...authority figure...? If as I interpret from above, Morris and co are now 'media twats' then it rather seems like familiarity has bred contempt. If you'd rather he was an undistinguished genius in a garret with a secretive cult appeal and you could feel special for liking him then fine but you've gotta ask yourself why you feel popularity is a bad thing. Because that's what I see here - Morris is more 'establishment' now so let's kick him first so we can say we saw the rot coming before everyone else, so others might say, gosh, how prescient that lot of comedy experts are.
And comedy shows don't 'change' anything. It's a rather arrogant and self-important viewpoint to believe it does. Art influences, yes, but only people change things. Art does not of itself have the ability to change the world.

thatmuch

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"Isn't the problem with 'dark' comedy that, to its target audience, it's just as safe and cosy as The Good Life et al ever were? Reinforcing shared beliefs, flattering audiences into thinking *they* understand the satire but the Disgusted-of-Tunbridge-Wells masses don't. That's certainly true of BES and Nighty Night. Those shows can't actually change anything.

If you weren't disturbed by some of the things in BES, that might explain why you disliked it so much. I found it it quite unnerving in parts so I can understand why people react negatively to it. I think Morris's intention was to initiate thought and discussion, not smug identification.

Nighty Night is just a pile of shit. It's hard to imagine anyone feeling smug about liking that.

butnut

Yes - I've been waiting a while for the next great thing to come along and really shake up the comedy world. It might be too early for me to tell yet, but I would say that Curb Your Enthusiasm is the closest I've seen yet. It's definately the funniest thing I've seen since The Day Today. I've laughed at it more than Brass Eye, and it stands up to repeated viewings better.

Do you remember how after watching TDT you could never watch any serious programmes on telly in quite the same way? Thus was the extent and brilliance of the programme. Well, a weirdly similar thing happened to me, and a few other people I know who've also seen it, with CYE. Except that it happens in real life. When you encounter strangers, or are merely walking down the street, you find yourself behaving much more like Larry David than is probably wise. I've suddenly become much more chatty with people at check-outs. It's strange, but when something is so marvellous, it takes over a part of your personality.

So don't be put off by thr fact it's American or anything (I do sometimes feel there is a tiny snobbish element from some people on here about this). All this stuff about a different sense of humour is bollocks. The DVD of series 1 is out in the uk on May 17th, so get your arses on it. It does manage to cover some 'dark' topics (incest survivors, holocaust, funerals, boy's penisis etc.) but it's all done with such a wonderfully light touch that it hardly shows, just like all the great comedies have. It doesn't need to wear its darkness on its sleeves.

I'm going to shut up now because I should ahve gone to bed an hour ago and I'm knackered and there's probably loads of typos here. Nighty night.

imitationleather

Quote from: "Rats""now here's some white girl with her cap on backwards doing a rap about what we've been discussing" I must have stood there for about half an hour watching it with my mouth open.

Hahaha, I saw that a while ago on the BBC Learning Zone. When that girl came on, I thought, "Christ on a bike! Was this made in 1992 or something?" because she was dressed like something from a Vanilla Ice video (or like a German teenager on holiday). But, when the credits rolled it turned out the show was made in 2003!

I really wish I could remember the lyrics to her rap because they were hilarious. Gawd, I'm going to be checking Radio Times every week now, waiting for it to be repeated...

Goldentony

that girl was on yesterday and is indeed on after every episode of that show

apparently she's gonna rap along to anthrax next week and break open all new musical possibilities

Abbie

Neil/TJ,

Whilst we are on the subject of Baynham, I notice that the "His own Bit" piece about Stephen Hawking that Tony P posted to the site ages ago hasn't got a spot on the collaborators page.  I think it's ace, any chance you could add it?

EDIT:  I see the saucy little minx has reposted here:

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=792&highlight=baynham

chand

Quote from: "Rats"Yeah, that's something that I don't understand. Middle class white kids who listen to hip hop and only hip hop. I don't have a problem with them liking the music but they seem to buy into the whole lifestyle, change their clothes and stuff, buy the badges, how can these people relate to what is being said at all?

I've always found that most guitar bands aren't singing anything I can relate to either. A lot of it's about the music. Maaaan.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Robert Varley""Gosh, once again all these people telegraphing how unimpressed they are with 'dark' comedy. I guess its one way of trying to be seen to be staying ahead of the pack - by dismissing something that some people like quite a lot."

Or it could be because people have actual arguments. In this case, about why certain 'dark' shows are not in fact dark at all.

"I do wonder why this 'dark' comedy issue gets people so overwrought. If it isn't funny to you...that's ok."

Because people are interested in the debate. Simply saying 'I liked that' / 'I didn't, IMHO' would make for a very dull forum.

"If you'd rather he was an undistinguished genius in a garret with a secretive cult appeal and you could feel special for liking him then fine but you've gotta ask yourself why you feel popularity is a bad thing."

Ah, that schtick - the 'You liked him when he was your secret pin-up that only you'd heard of, but you don't like him now he's famous' attack. Unfortunately, you have to take into account another factor - ie that, more often than not, a comedian's early work remains their best. Precisely because they don't have a coterie of yes-fans slurping at their every comma.

"And comedy shows don't 'change' anything. It's a rather arrogant and self-important viewpoint to believe it does. Art influences, yes, but only people change things. Art does not of itself have the ability to change the world."

But if art changes people, then art is important and worth discussing.

Don't get me wrong - I've always loved dark comedy. Absolutely was full of it, for a start. I like sitcoms with dark subtexts - Porridge, Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads, Ever Decreasing Circles. Always liked Bill Hicks, Denis Leary and Jerry Sadowitz when I was younger and still do. I felt shudders of pleasure at cancer/paedophilia/general naughtiness references sneaked into The Mary Whitehouse Experience or Victor Lewis Smith's radio work. Will always adore Derek and Clive.

My problem is that what passes for 'dark' in 2004 isn't dark at all - it's the new mainstream. And that's a problem not *because* it's mainstream but because it's a completely pointless enterprise. It's in a complete vacuum. Nobody's really shocked by Nighty Night - it hasn't received complaints of Singing Detective proportions. So, given that it has very few funny lines in it, why does it exist?



thatmuch

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"
But everyone wants to be a part of it don't they? Comedy writers. So where on earth could such a show come from?

Chris Morris, most likely.

thomasina

I don't think it takes anything away from Baynham's argument that he used a weak comedy as an example.  The point is, if assholes are using the 'too dark for comedy' argument against it, it stifles debate about the real point, which is that its crap and unfunny, and also flattens out the distinction between shite that is dark just to be fashionable, and funny stuff.  Same as criticising black comedians or rappers for the 'niggas and bitches' thing - it prevents any sort of meaningful assessment on the actual quality of the material and puts Dr Dre on the same level as 50 cent.

A GLOCK's a big gun, by the way.

Rats

I know what a glocks are, some of us do watch ricki lake you know. The thing is, nighty night is quite good, people seem to be forgetting that people have different opinions. The fact that he used nighty night as an example doesn't take away from his argument at all, big nose.

imitationleather

Quote from: "Goldentony"that girl was on yesterday and is indeed on after every episode of that show

apparently she's gonna rap along to anthrax next week and break open all new musical possibilities

I saw the episode about drugs and Blackwood kept going on about how he'd never been within 500 metres of spliff smoke and knew nothing about them or the terminology.

Fucking fantastic choice of host, then.

thomasina

Quote from: "Rats"I know what a glocks are, some of us do watch ricki lake you know. The thing is, nighty night is quite good, people seem to be forgetting that people have different opinions. The fact that he used nighty night as an example doesn't take away from his argument at all, big nose.
Yeah, I should have read your post properly.  And I should have said 'whether' Nighty Night' is crap and unfunny.  But thats just an example of the main point, which is that the question of whether its any good or not gets ignored if it gets slagged off (or praised up) because its seen as 'dark'.  So, yes, we agree with each other fundamentally.

johann funf

Have any of you fuckers read the Ianucci/Morris 9/11 articles in the Observer? Apologies if this has been discussed at length already and I've missed it but this site doesn't have a proper search function so I don't know if anyone's seen it. It's ages old so you probably have. If you haven't I believe it's still available on the Guardian website under "Six months that changed a year".