Videogaming

[terminallyrelaxed]

And thats my problem how? Seriously, I know it sounds awful but I just find Americans going postal ironic. They could stop it tomorrow but its more important for them that people who can't read have the right to carry automatic weapons. You don't have a right to an education or medical care, but you have a right to carry something that gives you the  ability to kill 20 people in less than a minute because you're having a bad day. People have bad days all the time, so arming them is moronic. Until this is corrected, I have quite literally no sympathy for them at all. There are problems in the world that can be fixed, but you can't help people who won't help themselves.

[terminallyrelaxed]

Honestly, not proud of it but that guy last week in the shopping mall? I didn't quite laugh, but I definitely snorted. Its not news, its just a quota thats being filled. Everyone can be armed, no-one has to be sentient, so X number of people are going to be killed. Sure as night follows day.

[The Boston Crab]

Remember the shit 'shocking' PC 'game' 'Postal'? A bit tacky, 'that'.

[Famous Mortimer]

Remember the shit 'shocking' PC 'game' 'Postal'? A bit tacky, 'that'.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486640/

[terminallyrelaxed]

Three heads, one bullet!
http://www.geevee.com/index.php?p=viewvideo&v=31962

[Craig Torso]

The mini Uzi with double-tap is amazing.  I've only just leveled up to Major (and only got a sniper rifle for it) but I've actually started winning regularly since discovering the light machine guns.  Is it just me or have their been a lot more annoying kids at the moment?  I've had more than a few games recently with constant high-pitched boasting.

[Rolf Harris]

I haven't been on all week, but think I'll give it a blast tonight. Anyone unlocked the MP44 yet? I've managed to occasionally grab one from a fragged player's dead body, and it seems like a pretty decent weapon. Given that it's one of the last you unlock, I guess it should be.

[sirhenry]

Anyone else getting impatient for Spore?

To tide you over here's Wright and Eno, each overwhelmed with being on stage with the other, discussing generative systems in Spore and ambient music among other stuff. Great fun but over an hour and a half long.
http://fora.tv/2006/06/26/Will_Wright_and_Brian_Eno

_{This might have been posted somewhere here before, but I couldn't find it.}

[Still Not George]

Anyone else getting impatient for Spore?

I refer the honourable gentleman to my post on the first page of this thread...

[sirhenry]

I refer the honourable gentleman to my post on the first page of this thread...

Which is why I posted it here, rather than the Eno thread. It was my learned friend's reference to nothing for ten years reminded me of this talk.

[chand]

Went online on COD4 for PS3 tonight for the first time. The first group I was in was enjoyable, I was the second best in the first couple of fights behind some guy with a ludicrous amount of kills who kept getting me through walls. Went in with a different lot, and...oh my God, I forgot there'd be 14-year-old American boys with headsets. Christ. People running around talking about how their dicks were in people's mothers' mouths, with weirdly camp put-on trash-talkin' voices. It was hilarious that some of them were taking the trash talking really seriously. I felt so much better when I found someone using phrases like 'you sneaky GIT!' instead.

[waste of chops]

Uplink, Darwinia and DEFCON for just over a tenner, anyone?

EDIT: If you haven't used ClickandBuy before you can get a $5 discount off your next purchase on Steam if you use it.

[Pinball]

I avoid XBL now as getting trash talked to and annihilated by 14 year olds whose lives comprise playing these games.. is a little soul-crushing.

Assassin's Creed on PS3, however, has been quite entertaining, and not a game genre I would have normally enjoyed. The graphics are truly stunning. Killing cockney Crusaders is a nice twist too.

But I know I'll end up playing Geometry Wars and Space Cowboy (or whatever it's called; the Tempest remake). Simple, intuitive, addictive gameplay.

I also like the quirky stuff like "We Love Katamari" (PS2). Roll that Katamari!

[Famous Mortimer]

Isn't Sensible World of Soccer out on XBLA soon too? That has a ton of happy memories for me.

[buntyman]

Isn't Sensible World of Soccer out on XBLA soon too? That has a ton of happy memories for me.

I think it came out yesterday for about 5mins. It was then discovered not to work properly online so it got pulled for the time being. Hope it's back and sorted soon. Apparently it is the same players from the Amiga version but the player names are slightly altered. I don't think it lets you edit the team or player names either which is rather disappointing.

[Still Not George]

Uplink, Darwinia and DEFCON for just over a tenner, anyone?

Uplink and DEFCON are both worth the asking price alone, well recommended - if I didn't already own all 3 I'd be buying that.

[terminallyrelaxed]

I haven't been on all week, but think I'll give it a blast tonight. Anyone unlocked the MP44 yet? I've managed to occasionally grab one from a fragged player's dead body, and it seems like a pretty decent weapon. Given that it's one of the last you unlock, I guess it should be.

You'd think, but no. Its a bit of a mystery as to why its the last to unlock, it was the first mass-produced assault rifle and kicked arse in WW2, but its basically a poor cousin to the AK. High calibre and medium rate of fire, big recoil, its short bursts only if you want any rounds to go in the direction of the enemy. Its not awful, but it sure isn't something to work towards. The SAW is the best LMG, the G36 is the best assault rifle, the Barrett the best sniper, the SMG are all much of a muchness but the MP5 has accuracy and range over the others so it's the best SMG all-rounder.
As for pistols, the graph on the left doesn't change for any of them but their characteristics do vary, the Deagle is obviously a cannon, but it also has avery high rate of fire for a pistol plus the expected recoil, makes it a bit of a lottery. I used to exclusively use the mate for its 15 round capacity but at 9mm you need a whole mag to put anyone down especially if they have Juggernaut on. I don't mind the good old M1911 .45 but the USP is the best, .45 calibre, high rate of fire, modern and balanced.

[Spiteface]

I played the Streets of Rage games for the first time in ages last week, and they brought me so much joy I cried.

Great games with awesome soundtracks coutesy of Yuzo Koshiro (SOR 2 is one of the only game soundtracks I listen to for pleasure).

Why Sega hasn't revisited these games is beyond me, as I think they could pull off a proper 3D SOR.  I know Streets of Rage IV was talked about a few years ago for dreamcast, and footage emerged on the 'net, but it never went any further.  I believe "Die Hard Arcade" was also a failed attempt at making a fourth SOR.

That said, an unofficicial remake has been in development for a while, and is available for download - It's still a tiny tiny bit buggy, but it's fantastic for what it is -

http://www.bombergames.net/

Basically it plays like SOR 2 or 3, with the best bits taken from all 3 games (The police backup from the first game is back in this one, as is a new version of Adam).  The music's good too, mainly remixes of the old SOR soundtracks.

I think Sega could concievably do another SOR, and not fuck it up.  They managed to make a decent 3D Shinobi...

[chand]

I played the Streets of Rage games for the first time in ages last week, and they brought me so much joy I cried.

Great games with awesome soundtracks coutesy of Yuzo Koshiro (SOR 2 is one of the only game soundtracks I listen to for pleasure).

I played the first SOR recently and while the soundtrack was as good as I remembered, I found the gameplay beyond tedious, really couldn't get into it at all. Haven't played SOR2/3 recently though, I know they felt a fair bit different.

I think Sega could concievably do another SOR, and not fuck it up.  They managed to make a decent 3D Shinobi...

Man, I hated the 2D Shinobi games at the time, I remember renting it and thinking it was boring then; playing it on a recent Sega collection for the PS2 only confirmed how bobbins Shinobi was.

[Spiteface]

I played the first SOR recently and while the soundtrack was as good as I remembered, I found the gameplay beyond tedious, really couldn't get into it at all. Haven't played SOR2/3 recently though, I know they felt a fair bit different.

SOR 3 is very different, all the characters have more attacks.  Hugely underrated though, most people seem to think SOR 2 was better.  I disagree with that view.  SOR 1 is a little samey though, and the Blaze clones at the end of level 5 (the ship level) are still one of the hardest end of level bosses of any 16-bit game.

Man, I hated the 2D Shinobi games at the time, I remember renting it and thinking it was boring then; playing it on a recent Sega collection for the PS2 only confirmed how bobbins Shinobi was.

I love Shinobi 3.  Shadow Dancer on the Megadrive is the only "weak" one, I reckon.  Each to their own...

The dog in Shadow Dancer was cool though.

[samadriel]

SoR3 has a lot of merits (neato hidden characters, a greater variety of enemies, branching paths, and generally a lot more game time), but IIRC, the English version was too easy, and the Japanese one too hard, so it was a bit of a wasted shot (and replacing Max with 'Zan'?  Fuck off!)

The SoR games are, like all scrolling fighters, a bit tedious, but nonetheless, I would love to have seen their return on the DC, or indeed, see them reappear in the future somehow.  But I fear that's as likely as the return of Alex Kidd or the creation of a real Phantasy Star sequel.

[Spiteface]

SoR3 has a lot of merits (neato hidden characters, a greater variety of enemies, branching paths, and generally a lot more game time), but IIRC, the English version was too easy, and the Japanese one too hard, so it was a bit of a wasted shot (and replacing Max with 'Zan'?  Fuck off!)

The SoR games are, like all scrolling fighters, a bit tedious, but nonetheless, I would love to have seen their return on the DC, or indeed, see them reappear in the future somehow.  But I fear that's as likely as the return of Alex Kidd or the creation of a real Phantasy Star sequel.

It was the other way round - SOR 3 (the US/UK version) was much more difficult than it's japanese counterpart Bare Knuckle 3.  There were alot of other differences between the two versions as well, the infamous level 1 boss "Ash" is the most notable omission from the western SOR3.

http://soronline.classicgaming.gamespy.com/sor3_sor3vsbk3.htm

That pretty much covers everything regarding Bare Knuckle 3.

I loved playing as Shiva in SOR 3, even if he couldn't use weapons and stuff.

[Duckula]

If Sega took SoR back they'd only ruin it like everything else they touch these days.

[Spiteface]

I'm not entirely sure about "everything" (like I said, I enjoyed the PS2 Shinobi), but if Sega decided to hand over the reigns to someone else other than Sonic Team to make the next Sonic the Hedgehog game, I will be relieved.

Sega's still capable of great things, but they've managed to fuck up up their own mascot, who hasn't had a truly great game in his name since 1994 (Sonic and Knuckles).

If I go on any further, I'll go into territory that might be better served by it's own thread...

[The Boston Crab]

Actually, Sonic Rush Adventure on the DS is pretty good, might be right up your street. Well, it's exactly the same as I remember the Master System/Mega Drive games, anyway: just press right on the D-pad until you get to the end of the level, right?

Hilarity aside, if anybody would like to describe the joys of Sonic, please do. I always found that the most fun was in repeating one level again and again to get the fastest time. This was all right on the Master System when I was 8 but I never figured out what else the games had to offer. There seems to be no intricacy to the level design when you're at walking pace - it's like transforming the hurdles into a steeplechase - and the stop-start rhythm necessary for finding 'secret' areas is frustrating when the game is quite clearly designed around perfecting high-speed twitch-jumps.

I'd love someone to successfully pick my opinion to pieces, I feel like I'm missing out.

[samadriel]

I've never thought the Sonic games were all that great; they're probably the best examples of the 'vanilla' platforming genre (especially 'Sonic 3 and Knuckles'; nice long game, huge levels, heaps to explore...), but it never experimented with the formula like, say, the Mario series did with SMB 3 and Super Mario World (and I say this having grown up a staunch Sega gamer).  There was more creativity on display in the Wonderboy/Monster Land series than there ever was in Sonic.

_{Ut-oh, Casino Night Zone theme in my head.  Hopefully Soulseek can scratch this itch; it's difficult to type when you're snapping your fingers to the beat...}

<idiot nostalgia warning!> I wish Alex Kidd hadn't gone down the tubes (Lost Stars?  Enchanted Castle?  Eeeurgh!); Miracle and Shinobi Worlds were awesome...

[Spiteface]

I've never thought the Sonic games were all that great; they're probably the best examples of the 'vanilla' platforming genre (especially 'Sonic 3 and Knuckles'; nice long game, huge levels, heaps to explore...), but it never experimented with the formula like, say, the Mario series did with SMB 3 and Super Mario World (and I say this having grown up a staunch Sega gamer).  There was more creativity on display in the Wonderboy/Monster Land series than there ever was in Sonic.

I never got the fuss over the mario games.  I don't think they were bad, infact quite the opposite.

I just feel that in terms of the 16-bit era games, the Sonic series was much more enjoyable.

As far as creativity in the Sonic canon, look no further than Sonic CD.  I loved the time travel element in that - you had to use the lamposts to get to the past versions of each level in order to create a "good" future to get the better ending.  That was cool, and it effectively gave 4 versions of each level/act - Past, present, Good future, bad future.

As much as i think Sonic suffered for going 3D, i did like that they sort of elaborated on the Metal Sonic character from CD when making Sonic Heroes.  It made him so much more than just Robotnik's pawn, the way he never got over being unable to beat Sonic.

[The Boston Crab]

I never got the fuss over the mario games.  I don't think they were bad, infact quite the opposite.

I just feel that in terms of the 16-bit era games, the Sonic series was much more enjoyable.

Can you elaborate on that, please? I tried to give my impression of what Sonic gameplay is like: learning a series of timed jumps to get through repetitive levels as quickly as possible. What's your take on it? In what ways does it surpass, say, the 2D Mario games, in your eyes?

I think I can elaborate on what I see as the weaker elements of Sonic. Firstly, too much of the game 'play' is spent simply watching Sonic loop-the-loop/corkscrew/fly through empty foreground whilst admiring the pretty background. I'd love to argue that once you get accustomed to that rhythm, the game's complex and particular wonders unfurl - sadly, that doesn't tally up with any idea of exploration or conventional platforming. As I hinted above, once you stop dead (either by bumping into frustratingly-placed enemies or just by hitting a wall), the game becomes very pedestrian to me. Sonic moves sluggishly, has a very odd sense of weight and becomes very tough to maneouvre precisely, particularly when timing jumps. Now, to find every ring/red shoe/whatever, you have to stop dead and move round at walking speed, which just isn't anywhere near as fun as the straight-up learn-the-course speed thrills. It's 50% unique excitement, 50% poor 'conventional' platformer. No Sonic game has anywhere near the variety of Super Mario World - maybe a harsh comparison, few games do, but you did mention the 16-bit era. To be honest, no Sonic game has anywhere near the variety, hidden secrets and replayable level design of Super Mario 3.

Another tiny annoying thing about Sonic is that because of the speed, there's no way you can react to what levels will throw at you - you just have to learn by trial and error. I don't have an enormous problem with this because I like difficult games, I enjoy developing my co-ordination to transgress whatever fiendish routes the designers can come up with. At their worst though, the Sonic games have some really cynical enemy/obstacle placements, where you inevitably die first time because there's simply no way to react. You come out of a loop at full speed and bang, you hit a hidden spike, rings everywhere. The unfairness takes you out of the game.

Anyway, I'd be interested to read what you've got to say, I'm no expert on Sonic so perhaps I'm going about it the wrong way, projecting Mario values onto a quite different style of game.

[Pseudopath]

really cynical enemy/obstacle placements, where you inevitably die first time because there's simply no way to react.

You've pretty much summed up what I dislike about Mario's 2D adventures. There are far too many pixel-perfect jumps unnecessarily topped off with some flying bastard of a baddie, not to mention gaps which you try to jump over 20 times before realising there was an invisible question block above your head that you needed to reveal before you could ever make the jump. I don't mind a bit of difficulty in my games, but Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World seemed to have a very perverse sense of challenge.

The whole point of the Sonic games was arcade action. You were supposed to whizz through the game in a couple of hours, not invest 40+ hours in finding every secret star and warp pipe like some kind of side-scrolling RPG.

[Spiteface]

You put it better than I could.

I also liked Sonic the Hedgehog 3 for the reason that from the opening sequence of Sonic and Tails arriving on Angel Island, right up until the end battle chasing Robotnik through space (if you got all FOURTEEN~! Chaos and Super Emeralds), at the end of Sonic and Knuckles, it felt like and adventure, and a story was unfolding right in front of you as you played.  I never got that feeling from playing a 16-bit Mario game, however good they are.

That's not to say that's the be-all and end-all of why I liked Sonic, but playing Sonic 3 & Knuckles (To give it it's full name, if you had both cartridges) as an 11 year-old, I was drawn in by a game in way no other game has done since.  Although it didn't have as many "levels" as say, Super Mario World they were fucking massive, compared to Sonic 1's Green Hill Zone, which could be zipped through in under 30 seconds, if you so wished.

Truthfully, I always found Super Mario World to be overrated...

To give the Mario franchise credit though, it made the transition to 3D more easily than Sonic has (although Sonic X-treme never saw the light of day, so fans had to wait until Sonic adventure for a "true" 3D sonic).

I just always preferred the "style" of the Sonic games, better music, too.

Oh fuck, it's just dawned on me that this thread has descended into a 15-years old school playground arguement.