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<TECHY> Microphones

Started by monkey, December 06, 2007, 06:41:55 PM

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monkey

My brother has got himself a Boss BR600 Digital Recorder and is after a decent but reasonably priced mic for it for Christmas. I have absolutely no idea where to start (nor what is "reasonably priced" for a "decent" mic), so any advice would be appreciated.

Marty McFly

two all-purpose, low (ish) cost microphones:

Shure SM57 - for instruments/amplifiers
Shure SM58 - for vocals.

you can do vocals with the 57, but the 58 sounds better, it's purely a vocal mic. both cost around £70 new..

you'll also want to make/buy a pop filter for vocals:

http://www.jakeludington.com/project_studio/20050321_build_your_own_microphone_pop_screen.html

LetterBeacon

If you want a decent cheap condenser mic (as a opposed to the dynamic mics recommended above) you can't go wrong with a Rode NT1-A.  You can get them for about £100 from Turnkey.

I can't say I recommend the Rode mics (at least the budget end), I've had one for a while and I've never really loved the sound, especially with vocals. I much prefer AKG for cheap condenser mics. However, there's almost no point in discussing this because everyone has a different favourite - best thing to do would be go into a decent music shop that'll allow you to test microphones out. Give them a budget and they'll give you a selection of mics - he can choose whichever he likes best (and try it out using his home set-up, to make sure they aren't putting them through an amazing input and making them all sound golden).

The Shure's are industry standard though, so you can't go much wrong with one of them, but you should still try them personally whenever possible.

no_offenc

Though I need a small stand for it, for voice stuff (spoken word or music stuff, nothing horrendously loud obviously) I got a Behringer C1 for about 35 quid and it's been pretty good to me so far.

NoSleep

I have a pair of those Behringers and they sound a bit muffled to me. LFBarfe bought a pair of mics, one of which he uses for his voice on CaB broadcasts and I thought it sounded pretty good in comparison to the C1s. Hopefully he'll post here and tell us what they are, as the price for a pair was only very slightly above that of the pair of C1s (£35).

Lfbarfe

My main workhorses at home are a pair of these:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc300.htm

They have a pleasingly neutral response, I find. I bought mine from an eBay reseller before realising I could have saved a few quid by going direct to Thomann, but even at his inflated price, they were a bargain, so good luck to him. Get your brother a pair for stereo and a mounting bar like this - http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=31247&doy=9m12 - as it'll open up a lot of options.

For location recording, I use a Sony ECM-MS907.

NoSleep

Quote from: monkey on December 06, 2007, 06:41:55 PM
My brother has got himself a Boss BR600 Digital Recorder and is after a decent but reasonably priced mic for it for Christmas. I have absolutely no idea where to start (nor what is "reasonably priced" for a "decent" mic), so any advice would be appreciated.

Decent mics start at around £300 upwards. If you went for an AKG 414 (£400-500) you'd have yourself a good all-round mic. But I see the Boss BR600 doesn't appear to come equipped with 48v phantom powering, so you'd be talking about a pre-amp to buy on top... all in costing at least 3 times what you paid for the recorder. So I guess an SM58 would probably make more sense.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Three hundred quid?! Either you have immensely high standards or I have really low ones (which is very possible, I'm no expert) because I would have thought an SM58 was perfectly decent.

PaulTMA

#9
" those little stereo ones for bootlegging shows are good" - can you give an example of these?  I've been using an SM58 for our gigs when I can't do a line-in, and the results aren't that great.

NoSleep

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on December 09, 2007, 01:37:35 AM
Three hundred quid?! Either you have immensely high standards or I have really low ones (which is very possible, I'm no expert) because I would have thought an SM58 was perfectly decent.

You get what you pay for. Try A/B'ing between an SM58 and an AKG 414. That said, I generally prefer the 414 over the Neumann U87, which is much higher in price (about £1500, last time I looked). The 414 gives you a lot of options: You can select cardoid, omni or figure of eight configurations with it. There's two levels of attenuation below the normal 0db (-10db & -20db) for powerful signals (you're lucky to get one usually) and two options for bass cut (75Hz & 150Hz)(without which the mic can pack, or pick up, a punch as well, which other cheaper mics are often missing). You can also buy a matched pair for a reasonable amount. Like I said, it's a good all-round mic and is worth the money, as it'll outlive most other gear in a recording set-up.

Lfbarfe

There's decent and there's decent. Obviously a cheapo condenser isn't going to match a 414, but some of them can be pretty good. I run mine through a little Behringer Mackie-clone mixer, which takes care of the phantom powering. The Sony stereo condenser I mentioned has its own battery-powered pre-amp on board.

Lfbarfe

The SM58's main selling point is less its sound (although they're about as good as you'll get from a dynamic mic) and more the fact that it's practically indestructible. Just ask John Otway, Roger Daltrey, and numerous other heavy-duty SM58 users. The C414 is a lovely piece of kit, still much used by BBC sound engineers for capturing orchestras and the like.

NoSleep

Quote from: Lfbarfe on December 09, 2007, 03:13:01 AM
The SM58's main selling point is less its sound (although they're about as good as you'll get from a dynamic mic) and more the fact that it's practically indestructible. Just ask John Otway, Roger Daltrey, and numerous other heavy-duty SM58 users. The C414 is a lovely piece of kit, still much used by BBC sound engineers for capturing orchestras and the like.

The SM58's durability is not in question here, but it's just a cardoid mic, and if you're looking for a mic to engage in recording, then you're not in the same environment that the above artists find themselves in live situations (the mic is going to go through some serious battering in the hands of Daltrey or Otway). The 414 will record everything from a vocalist through to an orchestra, albeit in the more settled environment that you find in the recording studio. I would imagine (but not guarantee) that even artists like Daltrey would plump for recording through a superior mic to the SM58 in the studio, although I know some artists DO use SM58 in the studio - I've never been pleased with the results I've heard when using them, perhaps because the battering they're subjected to does bugger the sound, which means you're constantly replacing a cheaper mic, which could cost just as much in the long run.

Lfbarfe

No, I was agreeing with you really, and saying that the SM58's reputation was not primarily sound-based. However, while something like a 414 is the standard to aspire to, for home recording, the OP can get started acceptably well in condenser world for flumpence nowadays. The last few years have seen a revolution in the low-end condenser mic market. Well, until the last few years, that market didn't really exist. A £250 Audio Technica really was the bottom end. Now, a well-chosen Chinese-made large diaphragm job with judicious EQ can produce results that bely the sub-£50 price. I hear good reports of the Samson LDCs. However, for £20, the Thomann ones I've got are a good start, and will still come in handy later when more expensive mics have been bought, for more complex miking arrangements and experiments.

Incidentally, NoSleep, do you subscribe to Tape Op magazine? Utterly free, and they run some fascinating interviews and gear appraisals.

NoSleep

Quote from: Lfbarfe on December 09, 2007, 12:35:31 PM
Incidentally, NoSleep, do you subscribe to Tape Op magazine? Utterly free, and they run some fascinating interviews and gear appraisals.

I'll be looking that up, cheers. I'll also be purchasing a couple of those Thomanns for home.

Ginyard

Rode NT4 (or a pair of NT5s if he wants more flexibility with the stereo soundfield). They're both good for stereo or mono recording, great for instruments (especially guitar and piano) and vocals and give a nice, fairly neutral but warm sound. I've been using them alongside Neumanns and some older AKGs for several years.

Pinball

For recording meetings and occasional gigs, I bought an Edirol R09 Wave MP3 Recorder (from Roland) for £250. It records to SD card and has stereo mics built in. I also bought a Sony ECMMS957 Digital Microphone for high quality stuff, and the itty bitty clip-on Sony ECM-719 Multi-use Stereo Microphone for gigs.

However, I've been so impressed with the R09 that I tend to just use that. Great device! The recording quality and mic sensitivity is superb, and there's no fucking around with getting a 'pure' digital file.

El Unicornio, mang

I have a GXL2200 condenser mic. It's cheap and sounds good for the price (about $100). You need absolute silence though as it picks up everything. I also have a Shure PG58 which works well enough. As long as it records your vocals clearly that's all you need to worry about, you'll spend forever messing about with eq's and noise reduction afterwards anyway. Frankly, if you know what you're doing with mixing you can get good results with a mic that comes free with a karaoke set.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on December 09, 2007, 01:37:35 AM
Three hundred quid?! Either you have immensely high standards or I have really low ones (which is very possible, I'm no expert) because I would have thought an SM58 was perfectly decent.

That is expensive if you're just starting out. The AKG C3000 (or C3000B) is about half the price of the C414 and still gives excellent results. The problem with the SM57 and SM58 is that they're great for live work and loud amplitudes but, being dynamic mics, they lack the clarity you need for vocals that you get with a decent condenser like the C3000. If you're looking for decent condensers to make a stereo pair on a budget the AKG C1000S is hard to beat.

didgeripoo

A Rode NT2000 does the trick for me. I use the bugger for most things. Did cost £225, though.